hi guys, id like to hear you comments about the following please:
about 2 weeks ago i had the aircon and the endless air disconnected at the same time for a while and noticed a reasonable improvement in fuel economy aprox 500-515km instead of the usual 450-470km.
this got me thinking that if i were to remove the factory water pump and fan and replace it with an electric davis craig water pump and thermo fans that it would be of similar resistance saving as previously experienced.
i do believe that toyota have an excellent set up from factory when reliability are concerned but i reckon if set up properly the electric system would be as efficient at a minimum but also more economical in the long run.
im aware that dessert and mud racers run this setup but on the back of the vehicle so its surely able to handle harsh conditions etc.
regards,
nathan
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fuel saving ideas
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fuel saving ideas
IF IT MOVES, SHOOT IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
i read about this in a street machine or similar they were reducing the load on the motor 'v' upping the boost.From mem. it was a big difference when they took the engine driven fan off.Close to 20 pony's I think 
but the cost is high a top pump and aftermarket fan's and new radiator will set you back some coin.If you keep the truck for a long time then it might work out cheaper because the cost of fuel is going up not down.
but the cost is high a top pump and aftermarket fan's and new radiator will set you back some coin.If you keep the truck for a long time then it might work out cheaper because the cost of fuel is going up not down.LETS GO BRONCOS
keep it comming please.
ive looked at the davis craig website and its very informative. basically the pump @$320 has life cycle of 3000 hrs and the fans @ 175 are 1500hrs.
so based on driving 2hrs every day of the year which i dont the pump would last just over 4 years and the fans last just over 2yrs. considering that the cooling sysytem gets looked at every 2yrs or less regardless, replacing the fans every 2 yrs and the pump at 4yrs when i service the cooling system it would prevent failure of units short of being faulty.
surely someone has done this setup and got some info/tips.
cheers.
ive looked at the davis craig website and its very informative. basically the pump @$320 has life cycle of 3000 hrs and the fans @ 175 are 1500hrs.
so based on driving 2hrs every day of the year which i dont the pump would last just over 4 years and the fans last just over 2yrs. considering that the cooling sysytem gets looked at every 2yrs or less regardless, replacing the fans every 2 yrs and the pump at 4yrs when i service the cooling system it would prevent failure of units short of being faulty.
surely someone has done this setup and got some info/tips.
cheers.
IF IT MOVES, SHOOT IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
I've changed from a viscous hub fan to a electric thermo. The power increase was very noticeable (mind you it is only a 1600cc engine to start with....) and the engine now revs out with a lot more enthusiasm.
The thermo fan will only switch in when required, so your figures for how long it would last would not be correct. I originally went down the Davies Craig route (ie. lots of $$$) but found the fan wasn't good enough in hot weather. I ended up going to the wreckers and buying a fan off another vehicle that had an inbuilt shroud to cover the radiator fully- that's a very important feature to have and makes a huge difference to the fan's cooling abilities. If you've got a big engine bay then AU or BA Falcon thermo fans would be the go (check Ebay!)
For activating the fan use a thermal switch (original equip in most FWD vehicles and available as a spare part for around $30-$40 from Repco and the like.) They screw into the water jacket somewhere (you may need to make an adaptor) and are used to activate a relay and turn the fan on.
There was a recent thread on the electric pumps- try searching as there was a lot of good info in it. Ebay seems to be a good place to buy them with packages inculding the controller for around $350.
The thermo fan will only switch in when required, so your figures for how long it would last would not be correct. I originally went down the Davies Craig route (ie. lots of $$$) but found the fan wasn't good enough in hot weather. I ended up going to the wreckers and buying a fan off another vehicle that had an inbuilt shroud to cover the radiator fully- that's a very important feature to have and makes a huge difference to the fan's cooling abilities. If you've got a big engine bay then AU or BA Falcon thermo fans would be the go (check Ebay!)
For activating the fan use a thermal switch (original equip in most FWD vehicles and available as a spare part for around $30-$40 from Repco and the like.) They screw into the water jacket somewhere (you may need to make an adaptor) and are used to activate a relay and turn the fan on.
There was a recent thread on the electric pumps- try searching as there was a lot of good info in it. Ebay seems to be a good place to buy them with packages inculding the controller for around $350.
David
Have we thought of the inefficiencies of this system. Going from mechanical - electrical - mechanical the losses would be compounded. The only saviour would be if the electrical fans & pumps were a hell of a lot more inefficient then the original mechanical units ( which probably aren't the best). Also compounded is the risk of failure.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for going forward and improving the system but I do like the KISS method.
Electric cooling fans would be a huge plus for those that do a lot of water / mud crossings.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for going forward and improving the system but I do like the KISS method.
Electric cooling fans would be a huge plus for those that do a lot of water / mud crossings.
The problem with the mechanical pump/ fan is they are running all the time, often when they aren't needed.
If you fit a electric water pump you remove the mechanical thermostat and the water pump speed is directly related to water temp- not engine speed. The electric fan only comes on when needed and isn't draining power all the time- unless you're caught in traffic or in driving in hot weather, it won't be on very often.
If you fit a electric water pump you remove the mechanical thermostat and the water pump speed is directly related to water temp- not engine speed. The electric fan only comes on when needed and isn't draining power all the time- unless you're caught in traffic or in driving in hot weather, it won't be on very often.
David
Good point, I didn't think of thatmurcod wrote:The problem with the mechanical pump/ fan is they are running all the time, often when they aren't needed.
If you fit a electric water pump you remove the mechanical thermostat and the water pump speed is directly related to water temp- not engine speed. The electric fan only comes on when needed and isn't draining power all the time- unless you're caught in traffic or in driving in hot weather, it won't be on very often.
so lets see, every 4 years 1 new pump and 2 new fans($670) divided by 4 = $167.5 a year.guzzla wrote:keep it comming please.
ive looked at the davis craig website and its very informative. basically the pump @$320 has life cycle of 3000 hrs and the fans @ 175 are 1500hrs.
so based on driving 2hrs every day of the year which i dont the pump would last just over 4 years and the fans last just over 2yrs. considering that the cooling sysytem gets looked at every 2yrs or less regardless, replacing the fans every 2 yrs and the pump at 4yrs when i service the cooling system it would prevent failure of units short of being faulty.
surely someone has done this setup and got some info/tips.
cheers.
average driving of 20000km and a 10% reduction in fuel = 200l/year saving @ $1.30 ($260) vs $167.50/year maintenance outlay (plus labour for fitting ~$90 - any garage will charge this as a min.)
so maybe you might save less than $10 / year
but still with reliability questions?????
not really worth it when you do the maths.
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1mad engineer:
if the maths are done properly it would look like this:
35000km per yr @ 22L/100km =7700L x $1.30 = $10,010
if EWP & fan system were fitted and saved 10% that = $1001 per yr
over 4 years based on changing fans at year 2 and 4 + setup= $2400
$1001 x 4 =$4004 - 2400 =$1604 / 4 = $401 saving per year after all costs paid.
a bit more than $10 you'd agree. however my main aim is increased mileage per tank and even if i was to break even as you calculate id still be ahead with extra milage plus power and i love free power.
Murcod: ur correct i listed them as worst case cenario for effect.
Just cruizin: i agree with the kiss principle 100% but am yet to be convinced that my proposed system would not increase time between refills thus increasing k's, not give me more power for nothing in the long run and if well maintained should be trouble free bar murphys law.
if the maths are done properly it would look like this:
35000km per yr @ 22L/100km =7700L x $1.30 = $10,010
if EWP & fan system were fitted and saved 10% that = $1001 per yr
over 4 years based on changing fans at year 2 and 4 + setup= $2400
$1001 x 4 =$4004 - 2400 =$1604 / 4 = $401 saving per year after all costs paid.
a bit more than $10 you'd agree. however my main aim is increased mileage per tank and even if i was to break even as you calculate id still be ahead with extra milage plus power and i love free power.
Murcod: ur correct i listed them as worst case cenario for effect.
Just cruizin: i agree with the kiss principle 100% but am yet to be convinced that my proposed system would not increase time between refills thus increasing k's, not give me more power for nothing in the long run and if well maintained should be trouble free bar murphys law.
IF IT MOVES, SHOOT IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
I would leave the thermostat there.... You don't want water pumping thru at startup when it's cold.
Thermofans are always a good idea. Think about the job of disconnecting the fan belt at water crossings so the fan wouldn't be driven into the radiator... No more with a thermo fan setup.
I don't think an electric water pump is worth the hassle unless it has broken already and it needs replacing, even then only maybe! But that's me.
What about a hiclown?
Thermofans are always a good idea. Think about the job of disconnecting the fan belt at water crossings so the fan wouldn't be driven into the radiator... No more with a thermo fan setup.
I don't think an electric water pump is worth the hassle unless it has broken already and it needs replacing, even then only maybe! But that's me.
What about a hiclown?
yeah come to think of it i might just go with 2 hiclones and 2 fitches because they both have an unquestionable reputation...... 
the consensus seems to be that i would be best off keeping the factory waterpump but piss off the engine fan and swap with quality thermos and shroud.
ultimately its the fan that provides most of the resistance both in its opperating style, surface area/spinning motion which results in what i assume to be a fair amout of power robbing drag.
all cooling experts ive spoken to say that air speed thru the radiator is more important than water flow speed thru the engine but all agree that the best of both is best when the system is under the most pressure.
the consensus seems to be that i would be best off keeping the factory waterpump but piss off the engine fan and swap with quality thermos and shroud.
ultimately its the fan that provides most of the resistance both in its opperating style, surface area/spinning motion which results in what i assume to be a fair amout of power robbing drag.
all cooling experts ive spoken to say that air speed thru the radiator is more important than water flow speed thru the engine but all agree that the best of both is best when the system is under the most pressure.
IF IT MOVES, SHOOT IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
An electric water pump controls temp. therefor you don't use a thermostathando wrote:I would leave the thermostat there.... You don't want water pumping thru at startup when it's cold.
Thermofans are always a good idea. Think about the job of disconnecting the fan belt at water crossings so the fan wouldn't be driven into the radiator... No more with a thermo fan setup.
I don't think an electric water pump is worth the hassle unless it has broken already and it needs replacing, even then only maybe! But that's me.
What about a hiclown?
Disconnecting the fans? easy, 2 wires and a switch on the dash
But a do agree i don't think the leccy pump is worth it, not for the mileage gain because the extra load on your alternator will negate the saving anyway, But farking of the fan and putting some thermos will help
Wanted: Car trailer or beaver tail truck, let me know what you got
How about going down a completely different line.
How are your tyre pressures? How much extra weight in recovery gear/ spares/ fridges/drawer units/roofracks is your rig carrying? All these add to drag, hence increasing fuel usage. How much mud is hanging under your rig? How big are your tyres? Are they the optimal size for best fuel economy? How out of tune is your motor? How clean is your air cleaner element? It all adds up.
And old racing saying is something like, "To save 100 pound, find 100 places to lose 1 pound each" If you can find 10 different small ways to save fuel, it would all add up to a bigger saving.
How are your tyre pressures? How much extra weight in recovery gear/ spares/ fridges/drawer units/roofracks is your rig carrying? All these add to drag, hence increasing fuel usage. How much mud is hanging under your rig? How big are your tyres? Are they the optimal size for best fuel economy? How out of tune is your motor? How clean is your air cleaner element? It all adds up.
And old racing saying is something like, "To save 100 pound, find 100 places to lose 1 pound each" If you can find 10 different small ways to save fuel, it would all add up to a bigger saving.
Mud makes excellent toothpaste.
i will at do the fans in the next 2 weeks and leave the pump as is for now (i do listen to you ).
it is a big rig by nature with heaps of mods but nothing is in there thats dead wood so to speak.
if time permits il do the part time kit next weekend, dyno it then do the fans then dyno it again and see where the gains are..... stay tuned.
in the mean time ive just fitted a long range tank so its less time i spend at the servo for now.
regards,
nathan
it is a big rig by nature with heaps of mods but nothing is in there thats dead wood so to speak.
if time permits il do the part time kit next weekend, dyno it then do the fans then dyno it again and see where the gains are..... stay tuned.
in the mean time ive just fitted a long range tank so its less time i spend at the servo for now.
regards,
nathan
IF IT MOVES, SHOOT IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
I got a new job across the other side of town from home and running the cruiser back and forth was costing me over $80 per week. 
Solution buy a zook and spend $40 on fuel about $600 (i think) on rego and $100 on insurance. Saving a grand total of $1300 a year.
Not concerned about initial outlay for zook cause I'll get back what it cost me no worries.
Another plus servicing a zook is about the third the cost of the cruiser.
(Minus the cost of modding the zook
plus the cost saving repairing damaged zook compared to cruiser) 
Solution buy a zook and spend $40 on fuel about $600 (i think) on rego and $100 on insurance. Saving a grand total of $1300 a year.
Not concerned about initial outlay for zook cause I'll get back what it cost me no worries.
Another plus servicing a zook is about the third the cost of the cruiser.
(Minus the cost of modding the zook
plus the cost saving repairing damaged zook compared to cruiser) 
mopeds are like fat chicks, good fun til your mates see you on one.
the fuel saving ideas arent to save save money in the long run (its a 4.5 petrol cruiser ) my aim is to just increase overall ks from tank to tank. if i save money along the way doing it well fine but its not the main exercise.
as for buying a second car, no can do as everything ive owned has been modded so it wouldnt stand a chance and mostly i love driving the beast.
cheers.
the fuel saving ideas arent to save save money in the long run (its a 4.5 petrol cruiser ) my aim is to just increase overall ks from tank to tank. if i save money along the way doing it well fine but its not the main exercise.
as for buying a second car, no can do as everything ive owned has been modded so it wouldnt stand a chance and mostly i love driving the beast.
cheers.
IF IT MOVES, SHOOT IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
IF IT DOESNT, CUT IT DOWN
IF ITS GREEN, PISS ON IT
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