ONE MAKE BUGGY CLASS.

[Mick_n_Sal]

I've only just stumbled accross this thread, & find it interesting that it has just been resurrected again. I think the concept is great. But in the interest of wider potential competitor base - why not come up with a tube chassis design based on fixed design - and allow competitors to purchase the plans to build it - or even buy the plan with pre-cut tubes & brackets for home or contractor assembly.

In the interest of safety these home / contractor chassis would need to be thouroughly inspected prior to being allowed to enter a comp.

Has anyone looked into the weekend UK 4WD comp scene?

[Bighazza]

Just read this thread and found it very interesting

The single chassis would limit a lot of people to what they want to do, but i can understand where Sam K is coming from. He is trying to make it so the buggy's are very similiar and it all comes down to driver skill and ability not just the buggy.

But take the V8 Supercars for example. Ok some of them have million dollar budgets but they use two chassis and types of cars. If you made it so it had a limit on the chassis you could use say Hilux, RR, Zook and as you have done with the specs i think that it would be much more enjoyable.

just IMO

[OVERKILL ENG]

I've only just stumbled accross this thread, & find it interesting that it has just been resurrected again. I think the concept is great. But in the interest of wider potential competitor base - why not come up with a tube chassis design based on fixed design - and allow competitors to purchase the plans to build it - or even buy the plan with pre-cut tubes & brackets for home or contractor assembly.

In the interest of safety these home / contractor chassis would need to be thouroughly inspected prior to being allowed to enter a comp.

Has anyone looked into the weekend UK 4WD comp scene?

I agree with what you are saying and had decided and i think i posted it somewhere that the polans would be able to be downloaded from our sight so people could build there own.
I am still Keen to get this going i think about it constantly and now that the seems to be more comps and people interested in buggies it may be time to push forward with it.My main aim was just to make a low cost comp setup people could afford and get more people out there driving.
SAM

[DeWsE]

Sounds good Sam,

Maybe if you get some plans prepared people can comment on it. Look forward to seeing some more of your handy work

[Nev62]

I've only just stumbled accross this thread, & find it interesting that it has just been resurrected again. I think the concept is great. But in the interest of wider potential competitor base - why not come up with a tube chassis design based on fixed design - and allow competitors to purchase the plans to build it - or even buy the plan with pre-cut tubes & brackets for home or contractor assembly.

In the interest of safety these home / contractor chassis would need to be thouroughly inspected prior to being allowed to enter a comp.

Has anyone looked into the weekend UK 4WD comp scene?

I agree with what you are saying and had decided and i think i posted it somewhere that the polans would be able to be downloaded from our sight so people could build there own.
I am still Keen to get this going i think about it constantly and now that the seems to be more comps and people interested in buggies it may be time to push forward with it.My main aim was just to make a low cost comp setup people could afford and get more people out there driving.
SAM

Sam, its now 12 months down the track, did you end up building a prototype?

As for the UK sceen, I've notice on a 4x4 is born that it seems quite healthy and most of the 4bs are zooks that have only minor mods and all the drivers seem to be having a ball.

Big problem for me is cost. I know that to many $15000 may not seem much for a toy but alas I have to save just to buy tyres for my daily driver let alone being able to justify (let alone buy) a toy. Hope it goes well but I for one will just have to be a spectator (unless someone wants a Nav )

[bru21]

I've only just stumbled accross this thread, & find it interesting that it has just been resurrected again. I think the concept is great. But in the interest of wider potential competitor base - why not come up with a tube chassis design based on fixed design - and allow competitors to purchase the plans to build it - or even buy the plan with pre-cut tubes & brackets for home or contractor assembly.

In the interest of safety these home / contractor chassis would need to be thouroughly inspected prior to being allowed to enter a comp.

Has anyone looked into the weekend UK 4WD comp scene?

I agree with what you are saying and had decided and i think i posted it somewhere that the polans would be able to be downloaded from our sight so people could build there own.
I am still Keen to get this going i think about it constantly and now that the seems to be more comps and people interested in buggies it may be time to push forward with it.My main aim was just to make a low cost comp setup people could afford and get more people out there driving.
SAM

Sam, its now 12 months down the track, did you end up building a prototype?

As for the UK sceen, I've notice on a 4x4 is born that it seems quite healthy and most of the 4bs are zooks that have only minor mods and all the drivers seem to be having a ball.

Big problem for me is cost. I know that to many $15000 may not seem much for a toy but alas I have to save just to buy tyres for my daily driver let alone being able to justify (let alone buy) a toy. Hope it goes well but I for one will just have to be a spectator (unless someone wants a Nav )

alas the reason there are spectators (no offence). everyone wants to compete, those that do either prioritise and do one sport or are well off. formula racing is to get all competitors on equal footings not necessarily get more entries. what other motorsport can you get into for under 15k all up. although after buying migs, benders, drop saws etc i sure as hell would not get somone else to build it top work sam keep the dream alive. i think it would be more than fair for you to sell a chassis number (certification for event plate) and drawings, backup etc for a fee. someone has to govern the class and it is your baby after all.

cheers bru

[-Richo-]

I thought id resurect this thread once again. I had considered building a buggy myself to compete in the Werock and Ozrock series' but realised to be competitive you have to throw a large ammount of coin at a buggy. This is something that i think is holding a lot of people back from entering these types of comps and is also holding back growth of the sport. With formula toyota, suzuki, nissan, rangie, whatever classes it gives a level and cost effective playing field for many people. It could also open up major sponsorship for the car manufacturers of these classes much like in WRC and trials bike comps, as it stands all buggies are custom made and no manufacturer is ever going to sponsor these. Sponsorship inst going to be such a necessity anyway being that most of these formula buggies/truggies could be built on a budget.

I personally feel a formula toyota should be a toyota, not mixed with zook bits or whatever, this defeats the purpose of the formulas and is heading towards open or promodified classes that we already have. It should be like it is in the US, if its formula toyota then the chassis/drivetrain/suspension must be toyota based parts (aftermarket parts for toyota gear should be allowed) either use the cab or it can be made into a tube body, but basically keep the core of the rig toyota. This way not only will these classes make it so that driver and navigator skill is what will win an event but also the ability to tweak the factory parts to their full potential. All of this though at a budget level that most people can afford. Obviously a lot of thought and planning will need to go into the writing up of the formulas, but i for one am looking forward to the day these classes become a reality as i will definitely be building up something to compete in.

Also yes it may be boring for some to watch the same types of rigs competing, but not for all. Plus you still have the promodified and legends classes to watch.

[POS]

I sold my old Moon Buggy which was not even 12 months old for 10 Grand.

It was and still should be a very competitive rig.

Tonys Buggys which is and should also (in the right hands) win every round in the Legends class. Is for sale. I think somewhere around the 20k mark.

I have also seen 2 or 3 other buggies for sale over the year and they either get striped out or sold for fark all.

To build a Formula Toy set-up you are still looking somewhere around the 10-15k mark.

So go figure.

Formula Toys in the states are lucky to have 2 or 3 compete at any event.

So whats better, spending 15k on a buggy that you may come 6th in a filed of 20 or spending 15k on a pile of junk that may come 2nd in a field of TWO????

[-Richo-]

Why did you sell your buggy if its still competitive?

the problem i see with legends and promodified classes is there really is no end to throwing coin at them, and being open it really means that whoever has the most coin wins or atleast has a greater advantage. Mortgaging the house or selling the kids to fund a legends class buggy is out of the question for me, and probably a lot of people. You dont start competing with the aim of finishing 10th, you want to win and $$$$ seems to be the way to gain the advantage with all the trick gear. Why invest 15k into a buggy thats not going to come close to winning? and then flog it off for fark all cos you get the shits with the limitations of a small budget?

You could build a formula toy for less than 15k, to build a competitive legends class buggy you looking at way over 20k easily.

It would be good if there was a class or classes that created a level playing field so it comes down to skill rather than coin, thats all im saying, whether it be formula classes or something else.

[redzook]

Why did you sell your buggy if its still competitive?

the problem i see with legends and promodified classes is there really is no end to throwing coin at them, and being open it really means that whoever has the most coin wins or atleast has a greater advantage. Mortgaging the house or selling the kids to fund a legends class buggy is out of the question for me, and probably a lot of people. You dont start competing with the aim of finishing 10th, you want to win and $$$$ seems to be the way to gain the advantage with all the trick gear. Why invest 15k into a buggy thats not going to come close to winning? and then flog it off for fark all cos you get the shits with the limitations of a small budget?

You could build a formula toy for less than 15k, to build a competitive legends class buggy you looking at way over 20k easily.

It would be good if there was a class or classes that created a level playing field so it comes down to skill rather than coin, thats all im saying, whether it be formula classes or something else.

way over 20k to be competive

my road regoed zuk got second in ledgends class (was coming first on the first day) and i can tell u that is no where near 20k and it has rego and engineering certificate as well as all the mud flaps and other bullshiat u need for rego

ill be building a ledgends/limited rig in the near future
using low dollar parts (picked up my diffs yesterday and driveshafts for $400) and i do plan to be quite competive

u dont neccicarly need the high $$$ dyna trac, rock crushers in limited rig cos ur restricted to 37" tires and if you drive conservatily u should be able to get lux, patrol or 80series diffs to easily cop that

u dont need atlas. use a hilux or any other case and somehow get a rear disconnect ull be competive

[Strange Rover]

I thought id resurect this thread once again. I had considered building a buggy myself to compete in the Werock and Ozrock series' but realised to be competitive you have to throw a large ammount of coin at a buggy.

I think its wrong to assume this - even in the unlimited class.

At the first round of WE Rock this year the budget rigs (rigs running normal transfer cases (not atlas) and toyota axles (not d60s or custom portals)) didnt place in top 3 because the drivers stuffed up and made mistakes. Sam Keck, Jamie Way and Cal Goodman (all driving "budget" rigs) all had simple rolls on A2 which cost them each about 50 - 55 points. If they didnt roll they would have all easily gotten into 2nd place.

You could build one of these "budget" rigs for less than $10000 in parts (same basic spec as one of our rentals)

Major Basic parts are -
engine/gearbox - $800
transfer - $500
axles - $500
air shox - $2000
steering - $1200
Heims - $800
Cro mo rear axles - $800
CVs - $600

Weld the diffs, learn to drive and get yourself a spotter who is prepared to work hard (and I mean work really hard stacking rocks!!)

Learn how to drive without breaking stuff and learn how to prep a rig so that its reliable and stupid stuff doesent break and you will be competitive.

Rockcrawling always has been a sport where what you build counts more than what you buy. Hard work, engineering skill, team work and driver ability will always count more that a big dollar rig.

A big dollar rig gets you easy reliability and allows the driver to do stupid stuff without breaking - a big dollar rig doesent necessarily mean its more capable.

Sam

[bogged]

Weld the diffs, learn to drive and get yourself a spotter who is prepared to work hard (and I mean work really hard stacking rocks!!)

Just on that, if you want to see a good spotter in action, watch Beebee in action. Not sure which dvd it is I got, but he knows his shit, very loud, clear, and direct - the driver knows what he is being told to do, no mistakes in communication. He also knows where the wheels should be placed.
Being a driver probably goes a long way to helping. He would be great to help train others who are unsure i reckon.

[redzook]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468828

one make class looking at 10000 to 15000 US

not as cheap as most people think

[OVERKILL ENG]

I thought id resurect this thread once again. I had considered building a buggy myself to compete in the Werock and Ozrock series' but realised to be competitive you have to throw a large ammount of coin at a buggy.

I think its wrong to assume this - even in the unlimited class.

At the first round of WE Rock this year the budget rigs (rigs running normal transfer cases (not atlas) and toyota axles (not d60s or custom portals)) didnt place in top 3 because the drivers stuffed up and made mistakes. Sam Keck, Jamie Way and Cal Goodman (all driving "budget" rigs) all had simple rolls on A2 which cost them each about 50 - 55 points. If they didnt roll they would have all easily gotten into 2nd place.

You could build one of these "budget" rigs for less than $10000 in parts (same basic spec as one of our rentals)

Major Basic parts are -
engine/gearbox - $800
transfer - $500
axles - $500
air shox - $2000
steering - $1200
Heims - $800
Cro mo rear axles - $800
CVs - $600

Weld the diffs, learn to drive and get yourself a spotter who is prepared to work hard (and I mean work really hard stacking rocks!!)

Learn how to drive without breaking stuff and learn how to prep a rig so that its reliable and stupid stuff doesent break and you will be competitive.

Rockcrawling always has been a sport where what you build counts more than what you buy. Hard work, engineering skill, team work and driver ability will always count more that a big dollar rig.

A big dollar rig gets you easy reliability and allows the driver to do stupid stuff without breaking - a big dollar rig doesent necessarily mean its more capable.

Sam

I agree the big dollar rigs only have the reliability over the lower cost rigs In some cases the cheaper rigs will outdrive the others and vice versa teamwork i think is a bigger factor than how much money the vehicle cost.
Dan and I (mainly I) made some mistakes on the saturday that cost us an easy 80odd points. But on the Sunday we got equall lowest scores for the day with Ballsac. So getting a good team working together is just as important.
SAM

[Strange Rover]

Dan and I (mainly I) made some mistakes on the saturday that cost us an easy 80odd points.
SAM

Your easy 80 points was probably closer to 100 points (should of got -10 instead of 40) which would have put you into 2nd. And if you had completed B4 the same way Cal did (by working the 3 tyres through or on the gate rule) then this would have saved you another 40 points which would have won you the event.

For WE Rock this year I dont think that there are going to be any courses that are really going to break cars. The guys on toyota axles will always have to be carefull to not break stuff (both in preparation and in driving style) but I think with the current toyota upgrades they will have enough strength.

Courses that make buggies roll are more fun to watch than courses that make buggies break. Buggies that roll are easier to recover as well. So as long as courses are set that test vehicle stability as opposed to outright vehicle strength then the budget rig will always be in with a chance as long as they are really on their game. And this is what WE Rock is all about.

It will be interesting to see what happens at round 2 at Rover Park. With the big clean slabs of rock I dont think rear steer will be so dominant.

Sam

[A1]

I agree the big dollar rigs only have the reliability over the lower cost rigs In some cases the cheaper rigs will outdrive the others and vice versa teamwork i think is a bigger factor than how much money the vehicle cost.
Dan and I (mainly I)(Sam I dont think you can justify saying it was mainly you ,Im the 1 telling YOU what line to take I have much to learn, I certainly felt more comfortable out in front than @ OZrock where i felt i made an absolute d-ick of myself with my lack of spotting knowledge.... I really need to look at the big picture of each course /round and tally the points as i go to give us the best chance of taking a win ...hopefully that knowledge will come with more time .. .....)made some mistakes on the saturday that cost us an easy 80odd points. But on the Sunday we got equall lowest scores for the day with Ballsac. So getting a good team working together is just as important.
SAM

[Roctoy]

I agree the big dollar rigs only have the reliability over the lower cost rigs In some cases the cheaper rigs will outdrive the others and vice versa teamwork i think is a bigger factor than how much money the vehicle cost.
Dan and I (mainly I)(Sam I dont think you can justify saying it was mainly you ,Im the 1 telling YOU what line to take I have much to learn, I certainly felt more comfortable out in front than @ OZrock where i felt i made an absolute d-ick of myself with my lack of spotting knowledge.... I really need to look at the big picture of each course /round and tally the points as i go to give us the best chance of taking a win ...hopefully that knowledge will come with more time .. .....)made some mistakes on the saturday that cost us an easy 80odd points. But on the Sunday we got equall lowest scores for the day with Ballsac. So getting a good team working together is just as important.
SAM

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO PRACTICE!