Tough Tracks round 2 at LMP

[RV80]

The way i see it, is that if Pinball's zuk has the factory diffs and a genuine LSD then its all good. And if someone has a patrol or any other type of vehicle and wants to tighten up there LSD then so be it, we cant expect people to pull their centres out just so someone can check if its been wound up or not

[striped tomato]

An LSD is not a diff lock, I agree that it has improved performance over a fully open diff but it is not a diff lock. If it was fitted as standard to a 4WD I interpret it as being acceptable under the trophy class rules.

A shimmed up LSD is not standard and unmodified and is not acceptable under the trophy class rules. How to police this - honesty. Not ideal but it's the only reasonable way.

[WICKED]

An LSD is not a diff lock, I agree that it has improved performance over a fully open diff but it is not a diff lock. If it was fitted as standard to a 4WD I interpret it as being acceptable under the trophy class rules.

A shimmed up LSD is not standard and unmodified and is not acceptable under the trophy class rules. How to police this - honesty. Not ideal but it's the only reasonable way.

ok.

if people are allowed LSD's then there will be no problems with a unimog run factory tyre's (48's i think) and portal axel's, or what about a vechile like the Rubicon Jeep that has factory locker's front and rear (detriots i think)

RV - its not that hard to change a centre. i'll have to if i chose to compete.

[RV80]

if people are allowed LSD's then there will be no problems with a unimog run factory tyre's (48's i think) and portal axel's, or what about a vechile like the Rubicon Jeep that has factory locker's front and rear (detriots i think)

How do you figure that a unimog can compete? The rules state, NO PORTALS, no rear steer and a max tyre of 38.5" for challenge class
And if any one turns up in a Rubicon Jeep with auto lockers or whatever they run then there in Challenge class.

[striped tomato]

what about a vechile like the Rubicon Jeep that has factory locker's front and rear (detriots i think)

RV - its not that hard to change a centre. i'll have to if i chose to compete.

Diff locks (that cannot be disabled) would put the rubicon in challenge class.

You'll only have to change a centre if you are looking to compete in trophy class and your centre is modified or a manual locking diff that cannot be disabled.

[`maddog]

Or you could just compete in Challenge class.....

[83 lux]

Or you could just compete in Challenge class.....

Nice work my friend

Why are you lot having this argument?

[WICKED]

if people are allowed LSD's then there will be no problems with a unimog run factory tyre's (48's i think) and portal axel's, or what about a vechile like the Rubicon Jeep that has factory locker's front and rear (detriots i think)

How do you figure that a unimog can compete? The rules state, NO PORTALS, no rear steer and a max tyre of 38.5" for challenge class
And if any one turns up in a Rubicon Jeep with auto lockers or whatever they run then there in Challenge class.

how is runnign a stock LSD in an open class different from running any of the above mentioned. its all bending the rules and dodgy.

[STIKA]

[From the tought tracks web site:

3.3.5 DIFFERENTIALS

The differential system for that make of vehicle shall be retained unmodified
except that differential locks may not be used.
 Differentials may be strengthened.
 Differential ratios are free.

An LSD is a type of Locking centre it's not a "fully open" centre.

A nissian LSD is a good tight LSD, if a nissian with a Standard LSD compete against a Zook (don't think they have LSD's), MQ, older hilux, 4# 55 6# Land cruiser the Nissian has a HUGE advantage.

It might be factory and standard but it is not what is written in the rules.[/quote]

Thats the way i read it too, but i think grant assumed that the LSD in the zook was stock.[/quote]

LSD is an LSD. if it is stock or not it's still a big advantage[/quote]

Ben i am not sure what you are trying to get at ? The rule as posted above states that diff locks can not be used in this class so what is the problem .

[STIKA]

Hmmm... this interests me.... specially as cage is out of the budget right now..

is LSD acceptable in trophy? On rr of sierra.

Spock

What does (on rr of sierra) mean

as i understand sierra didnt come out with LSD's

[STIKA]

if people are allowed LSD's then there will be no problems with a unimog run factory tyre's (48's i think) and portal axel's, or what about a vechile like the Rubicon Jeep that has factory locker's front and rear (detriots i think)

How do you figure that a unimog can compete? The rules state, NO PORTALS, no rear steer and a max tyre of 38.5" for challenge class
And if any one turns up in a Rubicon Jeep with auto lockers or whatever they run then there in Challenge class.

how is runnign a stock LSD in an open class different from running any of the above mentioned. its all bending the rules and dodgy.

It simple the club has decided on these rules and they consider a LSD to be an open diff.

If you feel it should be changed pay your money, come to a meeting and raise it there.

Or even better come and compete at round 2, if you think you need a LSD come and see me, i have one that has not been used after being set up.

[striped tomato]

if people are allowed LSD's then there will be no problems with a unimog run factory tyre's (48's i think) and portal axel's, or what about a vechile like the Rubicon Jeep that has factory locker's front and rear (detriots i think)

How do you figure that a unimog can compete? The rules state, NO PORTALS, no rear steer and a max tyre of 38.5" for challenge class
And if any one turns up in a Rubicon Jeep with auto lockers or whatever they run then there in Challenge class.

how is runnign a stock LSD in an open class different from running any of the above mentioned. its all bending the rules and dodgy.

Where is this "Open Class" from?

Trophy class is for mildly modfied, unlocked vehicles.
Challenge class is for more modified vehicles and diff locks are allowed.
Open class is not mentioned anywhere.
An LSD is not a locked diff and if it is fitted from factory and unmodified it is permitted in trophy class. The difference from above is that it is within the rules and is not dodgy.

An LSD is an advantage over an open diff. So are certain tyre sizes and treads over others. So are certain suspension configurations over others. So are certain wheel bases, turning circles, vehicle dimensions, motors, gearing, etc.. Trophy class allows people to compete in a reasonably standard vehicle, and pit their skills and advantages against others.

[BIG GQ]

This thread has turned immensely g hey Scotty will agree.



Anyway I'll just turn up and drive hard, smashing the ute against every conceivable object and do my best to incur every penalty possible........AGAIN

[bubs]

This thread has turned immensely g hey Scotty will agree.



Anyway I'll just turn up and drive hard, smashing the ute against every conceivable object and do my best to incur every penalty possible........AGAIN

Oh, this I gotta see

[bru21]

An LSD is not a diff lock, I agree that it has improved performance over a fully open diff but it is not a diff lock. If it was fitted as standard to a 4WD I interpret it as being acceptable under the trophy class rules.

A shimmed up LSD is not standard and unmodified and is not acceptable under the trophy class rules. How to police this - honesty. Not ideal but it's the only reasonable way.

a simple u turn on grass during scrutineering will confirm!

[antt]

whats the rules on front digs? one person has told me no probs, another said its excessive wheelspin. whats the go?

[BIG GQ]

depends how quickly you can get yourself into position and with how muck wheel spin but it will result in excessive wheel spin I say.

[Rhett]

Your Ok to spin the wheels as long as your moving I took the rules as?

[WICKED]

depends how quickly you can get yourself into position and with how muck wheel spin but it will result in excessive wheel spin I say.

all the rules are open to intrupritation........... depened's how they've been written.....

[mickyd555]

whats the rules on front digs? one person has told me no probs, another said its excessive wheelspin. whats the go?

i think Rhett is correct.....

[Pinball]

The way i see it, is that if Pinball's zuk has the factory diffs and a genuine LSD then its all good. And if someone has a patrol or any other type of vehicle and wants to tighten up there LSD then so be it, we cant expect people to pull their centres out just so someone can check if its been wound up or not

From discussion it seems i'm stuffed again... not a factory slip diff, aftermarket... *sigh*

Spock

[green4x4]

FRONT DIG
scotty asked this question last year, he may remember that he was told that this was not allowed, as rules say drive must be to to all wheels.
if seen doing this, it would be to my understanding, thats the point where your points would stop( ie: finish track at that point).

[RUFF]

FRONT DIG
scotty asked this question last year, he may remember that he was told that this was not allowed, as rules say drive must be to to all wheels.
if seen doing this, it would be to my understanding, thats the point where your points would stop( ie: finish track at that point).

So if someone blows a diff 2 feet from the finish line that is where their points will stop even if they can continue through the finish gate?

[antt]

like tony said, better re-word the rules then, cause this is what it says

 The transfer case and differentials shall be operative and capable of driving all four wheels.

how is selectable front wheel drive any different to selectable rear wheel drive like 99% of 4wd's have. doesn't state that the vehicle must remain in 4wd while on course

[striped tomato]

i can remember the conversation with scotty but can't remember the outcome. i think that front digs should be allowed as long as you are prepared to accept the wheel spin penalty if warranted. As I understand it fornt digs should be possible on many vehicles that have a locking centre diff as standard. In trophy class you would have to be running the original transfer case setup I think whereas in challlenge you could swap transfer cases or modify the car as necessary to perform digs. It's no different to banging it back in 2wd to slide the rear round sometimes.

[RUFF]

How is Excessive Wheel Spin judged? How can it be Judged Fairly?

[80lsy gq]

How is Excessive Wheel Spin judged? How can it be Judged Fairly?

exactly...i think this is one of the crappiest rules there is....especially for the trophy class...the amount of penalties some people get given when it is virtually impossible to drive anything hard without wheelspin in an unlocked vehicle...sure if you are churning crap outta the course then yes penalise them, if it is just a little bit of wheelspin(which i have seen called for a penalty at some rounds) then let it go..i think spectators would rather see stuff getting driven than constantly called for penalties

dave

[Rolly]

excessive wheel spin is only penalised if it alters the track too much .
front digs wont give anyone any real advantage in this type of comp.
excessive wheelspin has never been an issue in winning or loosing a track as we encourage entertaining driving.

[striped tomato]

How is Excessive Wheel Spin judged? How can it be Judged Fairly?

As Rolly said excessive wheel spin is when you are significantly altering the track, eg digging big holes or ruts, without progress. It is fairlyjudged by having the same person assessing it for everyone on that track.

[RUFF]

excessive wheel spin is only penalised if it alters the track too much .
front digs wont give anyone any real advantage in this type of comp.
excessive wheelspin has never been an issue in winning or loosing a track as we encourage entertaining driving.

So if front diggs give no advantage then there is no problem for someone to do them if they feel they need to?

From my experiances Excessive wheelspin was defianatly an issue on winning or loosing a track in the days of Short Course. Things may be different with TT?