Piranha DBS installation

[jizzyj]

Howdy,

I was wondering if anyone out there has ever installed a Piranha DBE 150s dual battery system. I've just scored one and wired it up according to the piranha website instructions but can't get get the bugger to work. My aux battery is showing voltage of 12.34 volts and the main is showing 13.14.
Does this sound alright?
The only thing I can think is that the unit is stuffed or I haven't hooked it up to the power properly. I connected the red wire to one of the power connections in the power box (toyota 60 series) and the black wire to ground but still no go.

Anyone got any ideas?

CHEERS

[84ZOOKSTA]

If i remember rightly doesent it only charge the Aux battery once the main battery hits 13.5-13.6volts, if so, this may be your problem.

Cheers
Simon.

[gu4800]

Your DBS should have 4 wires out of it:

1) Main battery (thick cable)
2) Aux battery (thick cable)
3) Red wire - accessories switch
4) Black wire - earth for the unit

Apart from the obvious wiring of the above (ie, main to main, aux to aux) make sure you have a good earth for the unit and the accessory wire actually switches the unit on (again - good connection).

The other thing - on your aux battery, run the earth all the way from the aux battery to the main battery. Don't earth the aux battery on the engine, etc. This is not a necessity, just makes for better connections.


And as said above, it will only charge the aux once the main hits 13.5V - however this should be straight away (within 10 secs of starting) as the alternator will (should) put at least 13.5V into the main tricking the system into thinking the main is in fact at 13.5V. Make sure your alternator is up tothe task.

[jizzyj]

Right. Did all that except for the aux ground on the main battery(will try that tomorrow) I still can't work it out. The red wire is connected up to power OK and the black is earthed properly but even though the charge on the main battery is showing over 14 volts charge (with a few revs) the aux charge doesn't kick in according to the voltmeter and test light set up between the aux ground/aux power.

I'm beginning to think the unit is a bit dodgy. I know they are serviceable units so I suppose i'll have to take it to a pro and get it sorted.

Cheers for the tips.

[murcod]

Is one of the wires used as a reference level for switching the aux onto charge? Perhaps the red wire, and it's not getting up to the required voltage even though the main battery is???

Just some thoughts.

[chimpboy]

For reference during this thread, this might help:



It's pretty hard to see a way of wiring that wrong, to be honest.

According to:

http://www.piranhaoffroad.com.au/produc ... lator2.htm

the device requires 13.5V to start charging the second battery, which you're not reaching. 13.5V is suitable for the voltage a modern alternator would achieve, but might not be realistic for an older one especially if it's a bit tired. Anyway, you're only getting 13.14V so that's probably the problem.

Have you tested it at any engine speed other than idle? I wouldn't be surprised if your voltage climbs closer to 14V at higher revs.

Either way, I think the problem is the alternator. I would be upgrading my alternator if it could only manage 13.1V, personally.

However - it's possible Piranha can supply you a different unit that kicks in at 13V instead of 13.5V.

Jason

[murcod]

....but even though the charge on the main battery is showing over 14 volts charge (with a few revs) the aux charge doesn't kick in according to the voltmeter .....

[chimpboy]

....but even though the charge on the main battery is showing over 14 volts charge (with a few revs) the aux charge doesn't kick in according to the voltmeter .....

Duh, I only read the original post, not the follow-up, sorry.

If the dual battery unit is seeing 14V and not tripping then yeah, it must be r00ted.

[-Scott-]

Dodgy (high resistance) connection between primary battery and controller.

Controller sees primary battery at 14V, turns on transistors to charge second battery. Increased current draw creates voltage drop across high resistance joint, so controller sees primary battery going flat and turns off. No current draw, "seen" voltage comes up, controller turns on etc.

Well, that was my problem...

Scott

[chimpboy]

Dodgy (high resistance) connection between primary battery and controller.

Controller sees primary battery at 14V, turns on transistors to charge second battery. Increased current draw creates voltage drop across high resistance joint, so controller sees primary battery going flat and turns off. No current draw, "seen" voltage comes up, controller turns on etc.

Well, that was my problem...

Scott

I also had that problem when I first set mine up in my Maverick, the reason was that I was using a "temporary" second battery to test the set-up. This second battery was far too dead, so when the controller kicked in the system voltage would drop too low. This caused a clickety click in the relay.

I assume this piranha system is a relay type, so is it going click click?

Jason

[jizzyj]

That might be it you know because the aux battery volts read at only 11.34 constant which sounds a bit dead. I'll try putting in a newer battery and see if it works.

As far as the clicking noise goes, I can only hear an initial click when the power is turned on. I waited for the click indicating charge going to the aux (does it click?) but it never happened.

Volts (idle) at the red power lead read 13.40ish and 13.60ish at the battery so I'm effed if I know.

I'll try a newer battery.

[jizzyj]

Dodgy (high resistance) connection between primary battery and controller.

Controller sees primary battery at 14V, turns on transistors to charge second battery. Increased current draw creates voltage drop across high resistance joint, so controller sees primary battery going flat and turns off. No current draw, "seen" voltage comes up, controller turns on etc.

Well, that was my problem...

Scott

Scott,
When you say 'high resistant joint' do you mean the cabling or is there some other thing I should be looking for.

Excuse my ignorance but electrics=black magic...for me

Justin

[-Scott-]

Hi Justin

The high resistance can be anywhere, but typically it would be in a connection rather than a cable. I had trouble with the maxi-blade fuse between primary battery and controller - dust in between the spring fingers. I'll never use maxi-blade fuses again.

The easiest way to find high resistance joints is to use a multimeter and look for voltage drop across connections while current is flowing. Ideally, there shouldn't be any voltage drop between the two batteries - in reality, there will be small drops all the way. The biggest voltage drops are where you have the highest resistance joints.

If your controller isn't switching on you won't have current flow, which makes life harder.

Try a jumper cable between the two positives to bring the second battery up, and see if that allows your controller to turn on? I'm a little concerned that you've only got 13.4 - 13.6V - that may be your real problem.

Other than that, I'm not sure what you could try. You could try to measure resistance with a multimeter, but some multimeters aren't sensitive/accurate enough for this.

Good luck,

Scott

[chimpboy]

That might be it you know because the aux battery volts read at only 11.34 constant which sounds a bit dead. I'll try putting in a newer battery and see if it works.

As far as the clicking noise goes, I can only hear an initial click when the power is turned on. I waited for the click indicating charge going to the aux (does it click?) but it never happened.

Volts (idle) at the red power lead read 13.40ish and 13.60ish at the battery so I'm effed if I know.

I'll try a newer battery.

Maybe try running it with no battery at all, just keep the +ve terminal safely away from the body of the car. When it should be charging, check what the voltage is at the second battery's +ve terminal, the one that would be charging it if you actually had a battery connected up.

It will either be 0 volts (if the DBS isn't activated) or exactly the same as the main battery voltage (if the DBS is activated.) If it's different by more than a few tenths of a volt, then you have excess resistance somewhere.

Jason

[murcod]

Maybe try running it with no battery at all, just keep the +ve terminal safely away from the body of the car. When it should be charging, check what the voltage is at the second battery's +ve terminal, the one that would be charging it if you actually had a battery connected up.

It will either be 0 volts (if the DBS isn't activated) or exactly the same as the main battery voltage (if the DBS is activated.) If it's different by more than a few tenths of a volt, then you have excess resistance somewhere.

There won't be any current flowing in that situation, so there won't be any voltage drops to indicate high resistance joins. You'll either the full voltage at the positive terminal (if the controller is switching the aux in) or nothing if it isn't.

Be careful directly jumpering the two positives together too- you could end up with brown pants if there is a voltage difference!!! I'd recommend not doing it.

[Cossie]

Piranha dual battery syatems are the biggest pile of toss I have ever seen! and I have fitted/removed more than enough dual battery systems as part of my job to qualify that statement.

Take the orange 'battery cable' and cut it in half (dont worry about ruining it as you wont want to refit it when you see whats inside it). It's not the beefiest looking cable even from the outside but when you cut it in half the actual copper wire is less than half the OD! It is insulated with the orange sleeve, then another blue sleeve, then finally inside that is the small gauge wire.

Do yourself a favour and replace either the cable or the whole lot with something better quality!

[chimpboy]

Maybe try running it with no battery at all, just keep the +ve terminal safely away from the body of the car. When it should be charging, check what the voltage is at the second battery's +ve terminal, the one that would be charging it if you actually had a battery connected up.

It will either be 0 volts (if the DBS isn't activated) or exactly the same as the main battery voltage (if the DBS is activated.) If it's different by more than a few tenths of a volt, then you have excess resistance somewhere.

There won't be any current flowing in that situation, so there won't be any voltage drops to indicate high resistance joins. You'll either the full voltage at the positive terminal (if the controller is switching the aux in) or nothing if it isn't.

Be careful directly jumpering the two positives together too- you could end up with brown pants if there is a voltage difference!!! I'd recommend not doing it.

I wasn't suggesting jumpering across the two positives. I still think checking all the voltages with no second battery there is a useful bit of diagnosis. Just checking the voltage of all the various positive points to ground.

Jason

[-Scott-]

There won't be any current flowing in that situation, so there won't be any voltage drops to indicate high resistance joins. You'll either the full voltage at the positive terminal (if the controller is switching the aux in) or nothing if it isn't.

Be careful directly jumpering the two positives together too- you could end up with brown pants if there is a voltage difference!!! I'd recommend not doing it.

I wasn't suggesting jumpering across the two positives. I still think checking all the voltages with no second battery there is a useful bit of diagnosis. Just checking the voltage of all the various positive points to ground.

Jason

I was the one suggesting the jumpers, and I don't expect there to be a problem. Worst case, with the engine at idle, the max current available is the alternator current.

Dave's point is Ohm's Law: without current flow, you won't have any voltage drop anywhere - DBS on or not. If the DBS can't measure ANY voltage at the "second" battery (which is disconnected) it probably won't turn on either.

[chimpboy]

Dave's point is Ohm's Law: without current flow, you won't have any voltage drop anywhere - DBS on or not. If the DBS can't measure ANY voltage at the "second" battery (which is disconnected) it probably won't turn on either.

Okay - but mine (which is not a piranha one) operates based on the voltage between it's own small ground wire and the incoming 12V wire (from the alternator/main battery). If these hit 13.5V, the unit engages and power flows through to the second battery cable, regardless of whether there's a second battery there.

But mine is a voltage-sensitive relay type.

[jizzyj]

Well guys, back to civilisation today (I live on Moreton Island) and I think I'll just bite the bullet and take it to an auto elec or piranha agent. It's all getting a bit too technical for me.

Thanks for all the feedback nonetheless. I've learnt a bit from what you've all said.

Stay tuned and I'll post what was wrong once I get it sorted.

[murcod]

Good luck- hopefully they won't charge you too much !

[Squire]

Jizzyj,
How did things go with the DBS? Have you got it fixed, or not? I've just had the same problem with mine (Piranha 150s) and after speaking directing to the guys at Piranha in Melbourne, I made some adjustments to the unit's calibration (followed their instructions, very simple) and it now works like a treat.
Remove the back panel off the box and in the lower left corner you'll see two trimpots. With the engine running (and revs up to get the right voltage), rotate the right hand trimpot anti-clockwise until you see the relays click in. It should only need to be rotated one or two millimetres (only a fraction of a turn).
Hopefully that will fix it for you.

Squire.

[jizzyj]

Squire,

Been on holidays, back now and tried what you said and found the problem. One of the relays is rooted so I rang Piranha and the bloke is going to send me a 2nd hand relay for $10 bucks and I am going to solder it in (or get someone else to do it). Better than forking out $40.00 for a new relay. I'll probably get him to send a spare as well as the unit is nearly 10 years old and you never know if any of the other relays are on their way out.

Cheers