ok,
I've had enough of stuffing around with small fry gains on my zook, late 2006 I will go supercharge!
Some assumptions I've made (maybe mistakenly):
- If I build a sealed box for the weber, I can effectively create a state of equilibrium pressure between the outside and inside of the carb, preventing fuel/air leakage.
- Supercharger can be bracketed to the engine block, with an intake tube and a pump line running to the top of the weber (much like B4T's setup). The supercharge runs via pulley off the crank, and is Oil Cooled?
- For cooler running, can run an oil cooler/intercooler in the bonet much like a turbo?
- Will have to run jets a little larger/richer to compensate for max boost?
- Float will need to be foam injected as not to crush under pressure
I think thats about all the complications? If there are any more I would love to know!!!
How much for a small supercharger?
Ado250
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who's got a weber on a sierra
In thinking a little more, have some other issues:
- Oil cooling: Will I need to run a feed from the oil pump to the SC or does it have its own pickup? I would tend to think that it has its own pickup .
- Boost effects on the head: compression ratio is about 8.5:1 on the G13BA. Might need to run a thicker head gasket for less compression so can have more boost.
- Possibly the 32/36 doesn't need complete sealing, as apparently some carbs can handle lower boost (say 8-10psi) without too much mods?? (B4T-????)
- Oil cooling: Will I need to run a feed from the oil pump to the SC or does it have its own pickup? I would tend to think that it has its own pickup .
- Boost effects on the head: compression ratio is about 8.5:1 on the G13BA. Might need to run a thicker head gasket for less compression so can have more boost.
- Possibly the 32/36 doesn't need complete sealing, as apparently some carbs can handle lower boost (say 8-10psi) without too much mods?? (B4T-????)
U'll also need a rising rate fuel regulator, and electric fuel pump to keep up the pressure inside the fuel bowl, to stop the boost from blowing the fuel back thru the carb. Sound like ur thinking of seting up a blow thru system with supercharger blowin thru the carb. Ever thought bout doing a suck thru setup??? with the carb b4 the charger. This is how the calmini setup works. Its alot more simpler and you dont have to pressurize the bowl. The std compression ratio should be ok to run 8psi.ado250 wrote:ok,
I've had enough of stuffing around with small fry gains on my zook, late 2006 I will go supercharge!
Some assumptions I've made (maybe mistakenly):
- If I build a sealed box for the weber, I can effectively create a state of equilibrium pressure between the outside and inside of the carb, preventing fuel/air leakage.
- Supercharger can be bracketed to the engine block, with an intake tube and a pump line running to the top of the weber (much like B4T's setup). The supercharge runs via pulley off the crank, and is Oil Cooled?
- For cooler running, can run an oil cooler/intercooler in the bonet much like a turbo?
- Will have to run jets a little larger/richer to compensate for max boost?
- Float will need to be foam injected as not to crush under pressure
I think thats about all the complications? If there are any more I would love to know!!!
How much for a small supercharger?
Ado250
Cheers Dan
Hmmm,
Yeah I thought about that but don't like the idea of fuel running through the S/C.
I'm also thinking of just going 1.6 injected and forgetting about the 1.3 carb all together.
I can probably get away with the jetting but I think that this will creat major flat spots in the rev range, but definately need an electric pump.
Hmm, decisions decisions. Apparently guys have done injected on a sierra for under $600 using second hand parts. This and a small super would really be ideal on the zook, I guess swapping the head may be an option and rigging up a injection system will make things alot cleaner (maybe not easier).
Yeah I thought about that but don't like the idea of fuel running through the S/C.
I'm also thinking of just going 1.6 injected and forgetting about the 1.3 carb all together.
I can probably get away with the jetting but I think that this will creat major flat spots in the rev range, but definately need an electric pump.
Hmm, decisions decisions. Apparently guys have done injected on a sierra for under $600 using second hand parts. This and a small super would really be ideal on the zook, I guess swapping the head may be an option and rigging up a injection system will make things alot cleaner (maybe not easier).
sounds like a lot of messing about. many weeks with it off the road. keep it low tech and simple. isnt that why ya bought a zook in the first place?
smiley- ive used a small bit of 10mm flat ally and bent it into a curve using a vice and doubled over one end to accept the stock accel cable. i then drilled 2 x 4mm holes close together and filed out inbetween them ( hole for shaft) I left about 15mm past the shaft for the return spring. (works really well.)
if you look at some of the pics i posted last time you can see it.
smiley- ive used a small bit of 10mm flat ally and bent it into a curve using a vice and doubled over one end to accept the stock accel cable. i then drilled 2 x 4mm holes close together and filed out inbetween them ( hole for shaft) I left about 15mm past the shaft for the return spring. (works really well.)
if you look at some of the pics i posted last time you can see it.
1999 SQ625 Manual Grand Vitara. Lifted, Twin Locked, 31' Extremes, dual Batteries, Winch.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
OK,
finally got a chance to crack the Weber open and see what was underneath. Surprised to find the following air/main combos (wont talk about idles for the moment, haven't got to those yet).
Main: 110/130
Air: 175/130
A bit of a strange mix?? Wonder the car was running at all I reckon. In comparing to some of the setups run by you guys, I'm way off the mark!
Upped the Main Secondary to 135, and I was thinking I should also get a larger Main primary coupled with a Larger Air secondary to get things happening.
I also found something else that was interesting. My float bowl vent doesn't seem like it's going to the venturi direct (no depressions on the mating surface) but there's a small tube which come out of the bowl through the cover into the air filter section. This would tend to mean no flooding uphill?? (B4T - insight???)
finally got a chance to crack the Weber open and see what was underneath. Surprised to find the following air/main combos (wont talk about idles for the moment, haven't got to those yet).
Main: 110/130
Air: 175/130
A bit of a strange mix?? Wonder the car was running at all I reckon. In comparing to some of the setups run by you guys, I'm way off the mark!
Upped the Main Secondary to 135, and I was thinking I should also get a larger Main primary coupled with a Larger Air secondary to get things happening.
I also found something else that was interesting. My float bowl vent doesn't seem like it's going to the venturi direct (no depressions on the mating surface) but there's a small tube which come out of the bowl through the cover into the air filter section. This would tend to mean no flooding uphill?? (B4T - insight???)
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hey ado. in your second pic you can see the curved bits near the air jets. theese need filling up as they dont seal up properly to the top piece. this is where the fuel spills into the air jets on steep angles and causes the flooding. ( Well this is what i understand from talking to sarge).
Aux venturis are connected to e-tubes, main and air jets etc.
Aux venturis are connected to e-tubes, main and air jets etc.
1999 SQ625 Manual Grand Vitara. Lifted, Twin Locked, 31' Extremes, dual Batteries, Winch.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Here's something to think about also:
Cool Morning: drives pretty ordinary, 120-128 max but takes a while to get there. Engine heats up a bit but doesn't get much better.
Cool Afternoon: Warm the engine up a bit and thing opens up like nothing else! 140k's no problem and gets there quite quickly. Unbelievable how just a small difference in conditions can cause a huge change in power!
Anyone have an exlanation for this??
Also B4T, why change the pump over? If you float valve regulates the fuel in the chamber and the fuel isn't actually PUMPED through the carby, what's the point of having MORE PRESSURE from the fuel pump to fill up the float chamber?
Cool Morning: drives pretty ordinary, 120-128 max but takes a while to get there. Engine heats up a bit but doesn't get much better.
Cool Afternoon: Warm the engine up a bit and thing opens up like nothing else! 140k's no problem and gets there quite quickly. Unbelievable how just a small difference in conditions can cause a huge change in power!
Anyone have an exlanation for this??
Also B4T, why change the pump over? If you float valve regulates the fuel in the chamber and the fuel isn't actually PUMPED through the carby, what's the point of having MORE PRESSURE from the fuel pump to fill up the float chamber?
ado- the pressure regulator is there to limit fuel pressure so it doesnt get to high and force its way past the needle and over fill the float bowl. This is why you want even lower pressure when wheeling as on angles the float is very sensitive and if fuel pressure is to high it will over fill the bowl and then cause flooding by over flowing into the aux vents.
oh as a guess id say in the mornings there is alot more moisture in the air than in the afternoons. This would reduce the explosion in the clynders. maybee?
just a guess
oh as a guess id say in the mornings there is alot more moisture in the air than in the afternoons. This would reduce the explosion in the clynders. maybee?
just a guess
1999 SQ625 Manual Grand Vitara. Lifted, Twin Locked, 31' Extremes, dual Batteries, Winch.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Finally got my carby kit yesterday so I soaked the carb in carb cleaner over nightand rebuilt it this morning. My kit replaced everything but the power valve diaphragm. Other than that I changed the air jets and adjusted the float level. It made a big improvement probably the best so far havnt tried offroad angles yet tho.
prim / sec
idle 60 / 50
main 132/ 140
air 170/ 160
aux 3.5/ 4.5
Im going to try a 135 main in the primary and see if its any better.
Nik
prim / sec
idle 60 / 50
main 132/ 140
air 170/ 160
aux 3.5/ 4.5
Im going to try a 135 main in the primary and see if its any better.
Nik
Took my zook on its first run after the diff swap 
I accidently filled it up with that ethonal crap, when I was on steep hills it idled fine but when I tried to take off it stuttered and went like crap till it got to high revs. Do you think it would be from the ethonal fuel or float issues?
Ive just set them to 41mm - 51mm.
Nik
I accidently filled it up with that ethonal crap, when I was on steep hills it idled fine but when I tried to take off it stuttered and went like crap till it got to high revs. Do you think it would be from the ethonal fuel or float issues?
Ive just set them to 41mm - 51mm.
Nik
the stutter off idle could be from ya primary idle being too small (mines a 70ish ) and may need a bigger primary main jet. but wait till ya used all the ethonal crap before ya change the main jet.
What e-tubes are you using? Go for a F50 prim and a F6 in the sec and see what it goes like
What e-tubes are you using? Go for a F50 prim and a F6 in the sec and see what it goes like
1999 SQ625 Manual Grand Vitara. Lifted, Twin Locked, 31' Extremes, dual Batteries, Winch.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Yea i have heard bout the 10psi thing. ummmmm do a search on the vw's the beatles, many have modded them running the weber and turbo in blow thru setup.ado250 wrote:Apparently a 32/36 can handle up to 10psi of boost without leaking fuel from the bits, how true is this??
Also, weber again "apparently" make a turbo seal kit for a 32/36. How true is this and does anybody know where to get them??
Well,
I have contacted some people off other forums and stuff, and most people reckon that a weber will handle 8psi no worries. I was thinking that running 7psi boost (maybe equates to around 6 psi real boost) could be handled by the engine (say maxing at around 6000rpm) and wouldn't cause that many problems when it came to rejetting.
I also found that "Orings" on the throttle shafts as well as epoxy in the hollow throttle shafts (inside somewhere) will seal that area up pretty well, then some foam into the float and you have no worries.
How hard do you reckon getting the throttle shaft our to whack an Oring around it would be B4T?
Ado250
I have contacted some people off other forums and stuff, and most people reckon that a weber will handle 8psi no worries. I was thinking that running 7psi boost (maybe equates to around 6 psi real boost) could be handled by the engine (say maxing at around 6000rpm) and wouldn't cause that many problems when it came to rejetting.
I also found that "Orings" on the throttle shafts as well as epoxy in the hollow throttle shafts (inside somewhere) will seal that area up pretty well, then some foam into the float and you have no worries.
How hard do you reckon getting the throttle shaft our to whack an Oring around it would be B4T?
Ado250
Any idea on setting up the O ring?
Also, seen that people drill holes just above the throtle shaft (into its housing) and attach a small line (possibly to a fitting epoxied into the hole) which takes pressurised air from the top of the carb down around the throtle shafts and prevents leakage of fuel (leaks air only).
Maybe this would be easier, only taking the shaft out partially as not to damage on drilling, then putting it back in and drilling the opposite side?
Also, seen that people drill holes just above the throtle shaft (into its housing) and attach a small line (possibly to a fitting epoxied into the hole) which takes pressurised air from the top of the carb down around the throtle shafts and prevents leakage of fuel (leaks air only).
Maybe this would be easier, only taking the shaft out partially as not to damage on drilling, then putting it back in and drilling the opposite side?
unles you can be lucky at the wreckers and find the same thing ive got then it will have to be a custom job. As said in previous posts you really need to plumb airbox onto the top of the carb or to the front to get best air flow into it. if going onto the top you may need a BL to get it to fit
1999 SQ625 Manual Grand Vitara. Lifted, Twin Locked, 31' Extremes, dual Batteries, Winch.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
i was thinking maybe someone with fab skills to do one up from a gasket or something. then we can all use it as a template or something.. not sure.
i bought a ramflow filter for mine but havent measured it up for height and clearance under the bonnet.. (yes still havent put on the weber!)
forward facing intake would be gold but may be harder to fab up?
your thoughts b4t?
i bought a ramflow filter for mine but havent measured it up for height and clearance under the bonnet.. (yes still havent put on the weber!)
forward facing intake would be gold but may be harder to fab up?
your thoughts b4t?
Forward facing intake??
If I understand correctly that's essentially like the original top hat type cover with the hose attached? It wouldn't be hard to cut (say draw the weber top profile onto the bas) out the weber top into the bottom of the original carby top adapter. Only issue would be it probably faces the wrond way!
Why not hacksaw off the old inlet pipe to the original hat, weld it onto the top (after holesawing a nice hole in the top of the hat) and then weld a bit of steel sheet over the hole in the side. Then you would have the air coming in from the top
Alot of work I know, maybe easier to make it from scratch
If I understand correctly that's essentially like the original top hat type cover with the hose attached? It wouldn't be hard to cut (say draw the weber top profile onto the bas) out the weber top into the bottom of the original carby top adapter. Only issue would be it probably faces the wrond way!
Why not hacksaw off the old inlet pipe to the original hat, weld it onto the top (after holesawing a nice hole in the top of the hat) and then weld a bit of steel sheet over the hole in the side. Then you would have the air coming in from the top
Alot of work I know, maybe easier to make it from scratch
if you feed the air in from the side then the first throat it goes past will steal all the air and leave very little for the other. This causes all kinds of problems with mixtures. top air supply is best but front is ok.
My original airbox on top of the weber was a weather proof box with the carby top cut out of the base. i then had a hole cut in the front and siliconed in a bit of PVC pipe which i attached to the air filter box. It worked but didnt look very pretty
My original airbox on top of the weber was a weather proof box with the carby top cut out of the base. i then had a hole cut in the front and siliconed in a bit of PVC pipe which i attached to the air filter box. It worked but didnt look very pretty
1999 SQ625 Manual Grand Vitara. Lifted, Twin Locked, 31' Extremes, dual Batteries, Winch.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
your original design sounds the goods. i will have to measure it up. havent had the time to jump into it and get it slapped on the zook.
here is a link of a guy in qld off the nbs4x4 forums. he has a vitara and mounted a weber on it. his throttle bracket looks neater thant he average
no offence 
http://www.nbs4x4club.com/forum/viewtop ... a&start=11
check it out .
i am yet to make one up .. thats all that is stopping me now.
lookin forward to picks built4t
here is a link of a guy in qld off the nbs4x4 forums. he has a vitara and mounted a weber on it. his throttle bracket looks neater thant he average
no offence http://www.nbs4x4club.com/forum/viewtop ... a&start=11 check it out .
i am yet to make one up .. thats all that is stopping me now.
lookin forward to picks built4t
Still having some trouble with surging when im going up a steep ledge, Ive uped the idle jet to 65 and it dosnt seem to help. My thought were that maybe with the float level lowered to 41mm- 51mm that when its on a steep uphill that the jets might be sucking air (carb mounted backwards)
Any ideas? Im running an electric fuel pump that I was told should flow enough.
Nik
Any ideas? Im running an electric fuel pump that I was told should flow enough.
Nik
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