Turbo Manifold

[vn15]

What kind of power can you expect from a TB45 with the GT35/40 fitted?

[shakes]

These MonstA turbo manifolds on ebay are going cheap for VL tubos and skyline RB25's. Im thinking of getting one for a VL and cutting the plate off and welding a new one on to suit the TB45 GU patrol i have.

all good in theory but do the exhaust ports also have the same spacings as the TB45? how far from the block does the mani sit? wil it foul your strut tower? could be the killer questions to your project

Simon

[raptorthumper]

They should be close, i would think. If they are out slightly you could run a thin band saw slot through the pipe (outside of bend), but only part way through and then bend the pipe to where its got to go. Then just add filler weld with the Tig to fill in the gap. Basically most of the hard work bending the pipes and creating the transition to the T3 plate has already been done.

As far as power for the TB45, i am just after 200kw. You could go much more than this if your budget allows.


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[morkz]

morkz how much for the one you posted about.?

I think they are around $800 not sure to be exact i got quite a few things at the one time i.e front mount cooler and turbo everything just about.

[RN]

My mate's 4.5 GU pumps out 220KW with a safari system Turbo kit.

It is intercooled and the computer has been piggybacked and chipped.

He did destroy the motor after severe tuning problems caused tooooo much heat and detonation. I would suggest that you pay particular attention to the quality of the pistons as one of his failed and lead to meltdown.

[fatassgq]

not the pistons that are the prob with 4.5's its the rods.

I agree that the tuning is the most important and hardest thing to get perfect.
Best to build massive amounts of safety into the tune when it gets hot or when air temp is cold etc.

That manifold that morks posted looks good but it is not a real good idea to have the first and last cylinders coming directly into all the other ports on that angle (almost right angle to the others). They should be made to come up from the bottom like 2,3,4 & 5 this is probably more important than having tuned length.

You can imagine the gas flow and how it would be fighting each other with this current design.
end of the day though you can still make mad power with a turbo no matter how rough. It is only when you chasing the last couple of kw that you really have to worry too much
Hope to do mine soon!!!!
Will be very interested to see how you go with that rb30 manifold but!!!
Cheers

[rover1]

something like this..maybe

http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/attachmen ... 1124108354
http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/attachmen ... 1124108178
http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/attachmen ... 1124259934

[raptorthumper]

You had to register to view these photo's, so i have uploaded them for everyone

here they are:








Grant.

[RN]

not the pistons that are the prob with 4.5's its the rods.

I agree that the tuning is the most important and hardest thing to get perfect.
Best to build massive amounts of safety into the tune when it gets hot or when air temp is cold etc.

That manifold that morks posted looks good but it is not a real good idea to have the first and last cylinders coming directly into all the other ports on that angle (almost right angle to the others). They should be made to come up from the bottom like 2,3,4 & 5 this is probably more important than having tuned length.

You can imagine the gas flow and how it would be fighting each other with this current design.
end of the day though you can still make mad power with a turbo no matter how rough. It is only when you chasing the last couple of kw that you really have to worry too much
Hope to do mine soon!!!!
Will be very interested to see how you go with that rb30 manifold but!!!
Cheers

Mates tune caused so much heat that it warped the stainless steel exhaust from the headers to the cat.

He is adamant that one of his pistons failed that lead to the engine destructing. The rod was bent and broken at the gudgeon also. He suspects one of the pistons may have been damaged when he had new rings inserted. Why, he just does. However it maybe a case of the chicken or the egg. Final result the rod went through the block and a short motor was the solution. He is doing a trip to QLD and return to Melb so I will see how it goes. Getting it to run rich enough was his main problem. In all for the amount of money spent on it he could have had a brand new Diesel chev fitted that would have given him all the torque that he needed to tow heavy trailers. Still it has fantastic acceleration it is a real sleeper.

[raptorthumper]

Mates tune caused so much heat that it warped the stainless steel exhaust from the headers to the cat.

He is adamant that one of his pistons failed that lead to the engine destructing. The rod was bent and broken at the gudgeon also. He suspects one of the pistons may have been damaged when he had new rings inserted. Why, he just does. However it maybe a case of the chicken or the egg. Final result the rod went through the block and a short motor was the solution. He is doing a trip to QLD and return to Melb so I will see how it goes. Getting it to run rich enough was his main problem. In all for the amount of money spent on it he could have had a brand new Diesel chev fitted that would have given him all the torque that he needed to tow heavy trailers. Still it has fantastic acceleration it is a real sleeper.

Yeah I have heard the rods are weaker on GU 4.5's but i will be running 95% of the time LPG which has a RON of between 102-106 (depending on grade) so the likely hood of detonantion is much less. (I also haven't seen photo's comparing the two conrods. Anyone?)
I also have an Autronic ECU which i will fit (Piggybacked) to control the ignition tables, for Boost retard, and Boost control. Probably wont even bother connecting injector outputs for Petrol as i rarely run it on the costly stuff.
(Maybe switch control for much lower boost on Petrol, and the std computer with mass flow sensor will be OK for fuel)


I would like to know if anyone has bent conrods with a turbo TB45 running LPG. I might ring a few wreckers for a price on GQ rods though.



Grant
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[currentlyoffline]

That stuffed, 4.5 couldn't it have just leaned out ?

[fatassgq]

That stuffed, 4.5 couldn't it have just leaned out ?

I would say so. The heat problem would be pointing towards lean fuel situation and the extra heat would have just compounded the prob.It really depends on what he has done in regard to tuning with computer etc.
If it is not a quality aftermarket computer that runs fuel, ignition, boost retard, boost control and most importantly compensate for air/coolant temps it is likely that this is the prob.

Is he running a rising rate reg, bigger injecters etc???

90 percent of the time I would say tune is the prob. But tuning is very very hard when you start having to allow for air temps (compensations) so it is handy to be able to build in a lot of safety in this area.

A unichip etc just would not cut it in my oppinion.

Do you know what boost it runs RoadNazi???

P.S that manifold in the pics looks the business!!!
cheers
Brian

[raptorthumper]

I agree. Running hot, and immediately think too lean and probably detonation from too much advance.



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[GRINCH]

autobarn sell manifolds for the import skylines rb25? at about half the price of the rb30 ones.

[raptorthumper]

Well i just received the RB25 manifold i bought off ebay. It cost $179.00 delivered to my door.

The cylinder spacing is closer than i thought. The TB45 cylinder spacing is 106.5mm and i have drawn a exhaust flange in Autocad to get lasercut.

I am going to cut the pipe and insert a straight section of pipe near the transition and grow each header pipe horizontally. For the 2 pipes in the middle i will cut the pipe and then rotate slightly. The hardest thing is creating the transition from the rectangular TB45 ports to the dia 43mm tube. I am going to buy some 45x45x3 RHS and then weld a short length on the exhaust flange. Then by slotting and squashing the RHS i can create a round profile.

Also i broke off an exhaust stud while undoing the manifold. So i drilled it and tried an eazy out. Prick off a thing broke off inside as well.

The last try will be to use a dremel and grind the eazy out and and go deeper and wider in dia. Then one more try with a larger eazy out.


heres some pics.



























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[toughnut]

There seems to be a big difference in the internal pipe size. You won't be able to match port the manifold to the head. This will cause your turbo to spool up much later with less power and also heat problems if not matched proprly.

[raptorthumper]

It's not that bad. The pictures are deceiving as the ports are oval. As i said before i will be using RHS to create the transition.

Still heaps better than the crap cast manifolds with 3 cylinders going into 1, and i wanted a high mount for accesibilty to turbo.

Also this manifold on an RB25 has produced 300 Rear wheel Kw. I'm not after that much.


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Grant.

[fatassgq]

Hey Grant that is looking cool

I really hope it all works for ya cause I will prolly do the same thing if it does!!!

43mm (is that about 1"/1/2) pipe dia on the rb25 manifold is plenty enough I would think.
I cant see the need to go much bigger.
The flange holes always look bigger than the actual runners as you say

Only concern I would have from the pics is bonnet clearance!
Have you made some measurements yet. I have heard of top mounted turbos melting paint on diesels let alone petty's with much more heat.

I got quoted $700 for a cast manifold from JPC the other day. It looks good but fuck me that is dear. Apparently the diesel cast manifolds crack with the heat of the petrols with turbo. An average/bad tube manifold imo will allow quicker spool than the cast jobby's anyway

Once again man good on ya for having a go and finding other ways. Hope it works. If ya turbo is too high it might be like one of those ricer drag cars with the turbo inlet out the bonnet. ha ha I can just picture it

Cheers
Brian

[raptorthumper]

Toughnut have you got any pics of the one you were going to get made. And what outside diameter tube did they use for fabrication.?

I checked bonnet clearance and that looks OK. Enough room for a stainless heat shroud. Strut clearance will be close. It will fit on with clearance when in place, but i dont know how easy it will go over the exhaust studs. I dont want to have to remove the head to change an exhaust flange gasket. I could easily bend the inner guard around the strut for more clearance if i need to or shorten up the width when i cut the flange off.

The ports on the head measure 36.7mm wide by 40mm high but the std manifold is about 2mm larger than these dimensions to match up with sloppy bolt holes.

You can also see how the ports restrict in both corners across the diagonal from the photos below.










Getting a quote on the parts to lasercut early this week.

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Grant.

[toughnut]

For the time and money it was going to cost to make one from scratch we decided that it would be better just to use a factory high mount manifold. Price quoted to me on that was $830. As my turbo has an external waste gate we made up an extension rather than drilling out the manifold. ( there are provisions to do this on the manifold.) The main reason for this was to line up the piping with less bends and to lift the turbo up just that little bit more to keep it out of the crap. I've wonered why there would be a high mount on their books. The only thing I can think of was for left hand drive vehicles to help clear steering gear.

[raptorthumper]

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware Nissan made a high mount version.


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Grant.

[currentlyoffline]

Independant Motorsports specialise in Custom Exhaunt Manifolds.

Have a look around their site, the have even done some work to Pips buggy.

Although they are predominantly drag based, they have done quite a few 4wd's too.

Nearly every conversion they have done has a custom exhaust manifold, intercooler setup

http://www.independentmotorsports.com.au/index.html

[fatassgq]

Just wanted to apologize for being a blind prick earlier.

It appears that once you open your eyes that manifold that Morks posted does have the 1st and last runners coming in on the right angle.

I just didn't look hard enough!!

[raptorthumper]

Well,

I should get the flanges back in a couple of days that i am having laser cut. So i am definately going ahead with this project.

But in the meantime since i am a mechanical engineer and been using 3D CAD design packages for the past 8 years, i decided to model, what i believe is the ultimate Patrol, high mount Turbo manifold with proengineer.

The pipes are drawn at 45mm OD and the flange is the exact one i am getting laser cut.

I do have a good contact with a family friend of mine who tig welds collector pipes for formula ford race cars that could manufacture this, but at this stage i'm not planning on fabricating it. Just had a bit of time to
spare.
Who knows it may be a possibility if there is significant interest though.

Ideally the tubes need to bent with a CNC tube bender.






























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Grant.

[raptorthumper]

I have changed my mind, and decided not to modify the RB20 manifold. I think you can do it, but i dont have a tig myself and decided it's not worth the effort if i have to pay someone.

I'm considering a few options but here a few pictures of Johnsons performance centres (JPC in Thomastown VIC) manifold for about $770, I was quoted.









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OR Turboglides one piece high mount designed for Diesels for about $480

This may or may not crack though with petrol motors.

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Grant.

[raptorthumper]

I'm toying with the idea of making my own log Top mount manifold using RHS and the flanges i had lasercut. At least this way it wont crack.

You can download the dxf file i have for it if you have a CAD package.

http://grantm.customer.netspace.net.au/TB45_Exhaust.dxf

See below.






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Grant.