weak toyo and nissan diffs and 38"+ tyres, what gives?

[zzzz]

Hey,

Made you look

Just wondering how a lot of people seem to be running around with 38" and bigger tyres and basically stock yota and nissan diffs.
I am assuming they break a lot of the time, but they can afford to do this because spares are cheap (relatively).

Just asking as the jeep front axle - dana30 - is as strong as say a hilux front. I think, can't find my docs on the spline counts etc. so I am guesing.

Regardless, the trend in america is to go as big as possible with the axles.
We don't have that luxury here as the costs are insane and the industry is not built up to support it properly.

So I wanted to ask, what diffs people are running, what size tyres and how many breakages they are having. Spline count and diameter would help immensely.

cheers

z

[RUFF]

I run 38.5s on Hilux axles and so does POS. We have both broken centres but this was due to abuse. I dont beleive even a 31 would have made a difference under the circumstances they have broken.
IMHO the 30 is a lot weaker and i beleive with a set of Longfields or similar CVs that the hilux axle is actually stronger than a stock D44 and i think that most of the guys that have run both in the US will agrea.

[CRUSHU]

at least upgrade to a dana 44 or chev 10 bolt (i have one for sale!) in the front, the 44 in the rear "should" be ok. it depends on driving style.

[FireTruck]

For axel diameters and spline counts, check here under the locker section:

http://www.arb.com.au/

Hilux front: 1.31", 30 spline
TJ D30 front: 1.16", 27 spline

...and a D44 is 1.31", 30 spline.

So the front rollux axel looks to be about the equiv of a D44... interesting.

Dunno about ring gear diameters etc.

S.

[CRUSHU]

there is more to diff strength thans axle spline count and spline diameter, the axle may neck down, or be made of sh1t material, the bearing and placement one the axle can be a pitfall, the centre may have weaknesses, eg the gq and ford 9" have same spline count, almost the same ringgear diameter, but the nissan only has 2 pinion bearings, wheras the 9" has 3, so in theory should be stronger. toyota truck (not fourby) rear axles are made of "hytuff", which is almost as strong as a aftermarket alloy axle.

[Bitsamissin]

A Dana 30 will not be as strong as a Hilux diff and axles.
A D-44 is more on a par with a Hilux and yes I've been researching this a bit lately
I was shown a Ford 9" centre compared to Dana 44 and clearly it is stronger with the extra bearing.
The Hilux ringear is 8" diameter the same as a D-44.

[Dozoor]

I believe as four wheel drivers axle strength is more important than ring and pinion, Where as a drag car for instance has a larger chance of applying simaller tourqe to both rear wheels somwhat balancing the the power output between them, whereas we tend to ask one axle to provide the strength to cope with our needs. and its in these situations you will nomally find a failure, eg most of the cars wheight on one wheel.

But its quiet simple if you have the wad ,9"curries or those super 60s.
but for most of us its the find the best for your bucks, so a set of GQs
for $600-800 and the rear will probly have a limo stock /is good for your bucks

[POS]

I think Dana 44 and Hilux can be BUILT up to Similar specs!!

Stronger CV's/Unis are available for both (i think the CTM Dana 44 would be slightly stronger but i have never seen these in action) and Stronger Axles are available for both!

Which is stronger i would really love to find out (in built form, not stock)

I think (fact KNOW) that the Hilux rear is unbreakable!!!

The rear axles in mine have taken a slight amount of abuse and (to my knoledge) so far have not let go! I run a welded rear and the only thing to let go is a ring gear!

I am YET to see any one bust a rear hilux axle!!!

Mind you these to are also available in stronger material!

Is anyone out there (or know of) someone running after market STRONGER dana 44 axles and CTM (or equivalent) joints! I would like to know!!

[Matt N]

POS, I have a front D44 with aftermarket Warn axles'n'hubs and CTMs.
How would you like me to test them?

[hypo]

POS, I have a front D44 with aftermarket Warn axles'n'hubs and CTMs.
How would you like me to test them?

flogg the absolute crap out of them with some 38.5's like POS does 2 his toyo axles and c wot happens

[Singo17]

I think Dana 44 and Hilux can be BUILT up to Similar specs!!

Stronger CV's/Unis are available for both (i think the CTM Dana 44 would be slightly stronger but i have never seen these in action) and Stronger Axles are available for both!

Which is stronger i would really love to find out (in built form, not stock)

I think (fact KNOW) that the Hilux rear is unbreakable!!!

The rear axles in mine have taken a slight amount of abuse and (to my knoledge) so far have not let go! I run a welded rear and the only thing to let go is a ring gear!

I am YET to see any one bust a rear hilux axle!!!

Mind you these to are also available in stronger material!

Is anyone out there (or know of) someone running after market STRONGER dana 44 axles and CTM (or equivalent) joints! I would like to know!!

Not being a Toy expert what exactly is the stronger axle you talk about. So for instance you want to build a set of axles for say a 83 hilux 4.8's what would be the go presuming your using ARB lockers front and rear to run say 37's.

Oh yeah any links to these bits would be handy.

I will post up in the Toy section if I buy this truck I am looking at tonight.

[N*A*M]

singo... new project eh? cool

[Singo17]

singo... new project eh? cool

Yeah a bloke here has a truck he wants rid of for 4 hundge. Everything is in it he reckons he has done an alternator and it wont start so I will take a battery with me to see if it turns over.

As long as I can't punch holes in the chasis I think I will grab it. I like the shape of the 83' as well. Don't ask me why I also like the 55's to so go figure.

[Wooders]

IMHO the Dana30 has coped a bad rep based largely on hearsay.
No it's not the strongerest axle out there - far from it - but as a compromise between apt strength and clearance IMHO it's not a bad little axle.

There are heaps of guys guning 35" rubber on stock D30 diffs in Aust and literally THOUSANDS in the US....yes they do get broken - but mostly its the uni joints that let loose....Now for those of you not familiar with the d30 - there are a few verions of the uni's.....YJ Wranglers (suqare headlights) had a D30 with 260X unis and these are regarded as weak. When the TJ was released the D30 was upgraded to 260X unis...Current TJ's get 760x unis....Both the 260 & 760 are used on the Dana44 axle - so when you consider this is the "weak" area it's not much of a change.

Now also available from the US are 30Spline shafts & lockers plus free wheeling hubs and CTM or OX unis which would take a basic D30 strength past that of a standard D44 in those areas...Although naturally you are still relying on a smaller r&P....

Final case in point - at 2001 Tuff Truck - the gold CJ5 running 38.5" SX - not a light tyre right? well I noted he had a D30 in the front - when I asked about it - the no BS reply was "I haven't had any problem with it to warrant upgrading it".....Also Many of you would have seen Mark Lambs Black TJ with 35" claws which was has competed in 2001 TTC, Woodpecker, Nissan trails etc - yet it's a standard D30....Ever seen him out with a broken front diff (yet).....Then Jumbo's (modded) D30 has also been in several comps....Suburban XJ another 2001 TTC competitor.....and there are plenty more examples....

Now don't get me wrong I AM looking to replace my D30 longer term - but just be aware it's not the all puny axle many think it is....

[JK]

Also Many of you would have seen Mark Lambs Black TJ with 35" claws which was has competed in 2001 TTC, Woodpecker, Nissan trails etc - yet it's a standard D30....Ever seen him out with a broken front diff (yet)

Sorry Wooders, I saw him running around with a busted uni a few months back. Anyone have any details?

Great tech in this thread though.

[Wooders]

Well there ya go - I did say the uni was the "weaklink"....

[FireTruck]

zzzz busted a uni in his as well... but lack of maintenance could have been a factor there... it exploded and made a big mess, took out ball joints, axel and stub axel, etc.

Treat em right and they will last - don't tromp on the skinny peddel reversing up hill turning full lock. Don't do circle work in 4wd. And if you want your ring gear to survive, don't go lower than 4.56 cause they get real thin at 4.88 and beyond... have seen some major ring gear carnage with locker + 4.88's.

[bazzle]

One item not covered here is the housing itself.
These can flex a bit, especially with wide or more so tall tyres.
This causes wear to bearings and splines.
The flexing weakens the axles too.

Taller tyres really need a stronger housing, ie tubed or gusseted.

Bazzle

[FireTruck]

That is one potential problem with the TJ D30 - the tubes are quite thin... can certainly benefit from some gussetting.

[Dozoor]

Fire truck Wrote:

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:44 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

zzzz busted a uni in his as well... but lack of maintenance could have been a factor there... it exploded and made a big mess, took out ball joints, axel and stub axel, etc.

I agree with the lack of maintanance factor , I believe a lot more breakages could be explianed this way.
Most people wack a uni or c/v in and the only time it gets maintianed is when we change ratios or we bust the sucker,
I can vouch for part of this even when i replaced a c/v not long ago it only got your basic everday grease ,instead of the proper c/v grease.
Using the proper grease on these thing , helps stoping the balls on the c/v from gouging,and scoring. Once you make a mark on a surface that is put under stress its at this point that the fructure will appear .

Im guilty

But zook c/vs are cheap

[bogged]

just on that, from another board..

Dana 30 stock in Jeeps yes? other cars?



Air Locker(ARB)
ARB Air Diff Locker suitable for a DANA 30 diff with ratio’s 3.73 and greater. (ARB part number RD30) ..as new.

Price: $850
State: QLD Suburb: Top Camp
Name: lwebb
Phone: 07 46309818

[POS]

POS, I have a front D44 with aftermarket Warn axles'n'hubs and CTMs.
How would you like me to test them?

Give them to me!!

How much did you pay for the AXLES and how much are the CTM'S??????

Also where did you get them from??????

[LEXX]

ME 2, ME 2!!!!

Mat N would love to check out the D44 and CTM's what did you get the front d44 from?

[Matt N]

POS -- I was hoping that you would build me a replica of your Lux, then I could swap the diff into the replica and test. If I take the diff out of my Heep and give it to you, I wouldnt be able to drive around anymore

How much for the axles? Bit hard to work out (plus I tend to get a bit depressed when I think of how much cash my rig has sucked up). The outers come with the Warn hub conversion kit, the inners were blanks that were splined here in Oz. All parts were supplied by Suburban 4wd, who built the diff. If you surf some US aftermarket sites you'll soon get a fair idea of the cost.

The CTMs, that bit was easy, I'm the Aussie distributor for CTM Racing Products. Last time I did a price on D44 unis it was $890 (inc GST) a pair, but the exchange rate has changed a bit so they should be a tad less now.

LEXX -- you could have checked them out, for two whole days at JAD and the Ultimate Adventure!! The D44 is out of Mick Whitehead's old TJ, he got it from Suburban who imported it from RE. I think it's F150.

[POS]

POS -- I was hoping that you would build me a replica of your Lux, then I could swap the diff into the replica and test. If I take the diff out of my Heep and give it to you, I wouldnt be able to drive around anymore

How much for the axles? Bit hard to work out (plus I tend to get a bit depressed when I think of how much cash my rig has sucked up). The outers come with the Warn hub conversion kit, the inners were blanks that were splined here in Oz. All parts were supplied by Suburban 4wd, who built the diff. If you surf some US aftermarket sites you'll soon get a fair idea of the cost.

The CTMs, that bit was easy, I'm the Aussie distributor for CTM Racing Products. Last time I did a price on D44 unis it was $890 (inc GST) a pair, but the exchange rate has changed a bit so they should be a tad less now.

LEXX -- you could have checked them out, for two whole days at JAD and the Ultimate Adventure!! The D44 is out of Mick Whitehead's old TJ, he got it from Suburban who imported it from RE. I think it's F150.

Awesome Stuff!

I did not even know there was an importer for CTM's in OZ (i have been looking at the CTM site for ages and it contains very little info), Its great to have you on the site, I hope we all get behind you and support your efforts!

Thanks for the Pricing, i am toying with a few ideas ATM. Dana 44 sounds nice and light but her BIG sister is OH so inviting

As for swapping the LUX you can have it anytime, Trust me when you drive it you will realise how good those bloody Jeeps are!

[Old Yella]

I've got a couple of questions on toyota diffs.
I run 5.29's on my Hilux and on most of the 4b forums everyone says they're weak.
Since running these with 35 inch Simex pedes I have had no trouble with centres only cv's. Previously running 4.5's on 33 inch Wrangler MT/R's I blew 2 rear and 1 front diff centre. I know the pinion has less teeth but compared to a 4.8 ratio [of which I have 4 spare] the crown and pinion teeth are about 30% bigger, I thought they would be stronger have I just been lucky, I only have a BIG BLOCK 2.4 L oil burner so its not big on horsepower.
The other question is I keep cracking rear diff housings [ 2 now] near the spring perches, I don't carry heavy loads, I don't go dune jumping or anything like that, just push it hard rock crawling. Last weekend after driving the harder tracks around Newy on Sat, I had to weld up my housing after what started as a small crack about 5mm inside of the spring perch at the bottom of the diff ended up about 3/4 of the way around the housing and horizontal cracks aswell. I didn't notice it until I put my front wheel on a big rock for a photo and a mate told me diff oil was pissing out on to my tyre. Has anyone else had this problem, maybe my 2 inch raised springs aren't flexing enough putting undue stress on one spot on the housing . Has anyone gusseted a housing to strengthen it . Falcon spring and a wide track housing are going in very soon.

Rob

[POS]

As for the rear housing cracking!

Is it a Pre 84 model? These had a slightly narrower tube with slightly thinner wall!!!

Once you go the WIDE track you will NOT have a Problem!

I run 38.5 Claws with the wide track and not a crack yet!

As for the DIFFS i say you are very LUCKY!!!!

Ben (Hypolux) runs 5.29's and goes threw them pretty quick!

It basically will depend on what you are driving and how you go about it! The bueaty with 5.29's is that they come in the 2WD utes so they are cheap and easy to find, If you are running these and you have had no Problems don't worry about what the others have to say, just keep wheeling until they blow!

With the 4.88's you have there are any HIGH PINION?????

Also the Two CV'S that you busted, were they the Same two that were in there when you busted the 4.55's???

If so you usually find that the Shock loading has weakened the CV's and that could be why they went before the 5.29. Just a thought!!!

If you want a Perfect set-up for a lux you need a High Pinion 4.11 for the front, Cromo Axles, longfields (or Equivalent) and a V6 Centre for the rear, they have larger bearings and are a lot stronger, the only thing is that the normal hilux Air locker will not fit, there is a separate model for the V6 centre!

[Old Yella]

Thanks for the info POS , the first housing wasn't an early its an 85 model LN65 but the second one that I cracked bigtime on the weekend is, so there's the problem I didn't know about the difference in models, SWEEEET
My spare centres aren't high pinion they are out of an 84 deisel and an 85 petrol lux.
The 3 cv's I have broken recently were the 2 old ones plus a second hand one I bought from the local wreckers, so I don't know how the second hand one had been previously treated but my originals have been driven hard for the last 6 years that I know of. I only started breaking cv's after fitting a front Powertraxx lockrite American diff lock when I fitted the 5.29's. Ben and I got our 5.29's at the same time I got them frieghted up together, it was cheaper. I only know of Ben blowing a rear 5.29 and this had the pinion welded.
Are the high pinion 4.11's out of a Bundera, and if so I hear they have an inherent problem of the pinion bearing not getting enough lubrication, is this true. Maybe on a soccer mom's Bundy with minimal offroad work.
With the 4.11's to crawl the 38.5 Claws do you run a Marlin dual transfer setup or Rockhoppers, and how do you stop the fronts scrubbing on the rear of the front guard, My Simex's just miss but Goodyear MT/R's of the same size touch because of the width difference.

Rob

[POS]

Yes i run Dual Cases!

The thing to remember is that i don't wheel mine on the road, i trailer it and only use it at 4WD parks and other hidden places, so it doesn't clock up a heap of distance so the front pinion bearing is not a real concern with me, however if you are using your rig as a daily drver there may be some issues! I have never heard of this problem!

My front diff is about 3 to 4 inches further forward and i have cut the front gaurds and a slight amount of Panel Beating is required on the rear of the front gaurd!

[CJer]

just on that, from another board..

Dana 30 stock in Jeeps yes? other cars?



Air Locker(ARB)
ARB Air Diff Locker suitable for a DANA 30 diff with ratio’s 3.73 and greater. (ARB part number RD30) ..as new.

Price: $850
State: QLD Suburb: Top Camp
Name: lwebb
Phone: 07 46309818

Part No. RD30 does not exist on the ARB site does anybody know if this is a old model ??? or an incorrect quote ???