to shavedtoy and NZ4x4 im interested when you say its a lot more work than just bolting them in what do u mean?
I have a mate whos running climax drop shackles in his ifs lux which only has a 2in lift and they seem to work quite well.
i am aware that i will need a anti wrap bar (that goes hand in hand when running a soft leaf pack especailly considering im running a V8, lockers and 35s) And being a mechanic in a very well equipped workshop with experience in a few comp trucks and the building of some streetable drag racing cars have some knowledge in modding cars.
but when screwy said they are YUK, what is the difference screwy between drop shackles and the 3/4 buggy leaf setup ur running, u are still only asensually allowing the shackle end of the spring to move further away from the chassis than normal.
LOOK I DONT ME TO BE RUDE TO ANYONE but would like some real help and experienced veiws, cause it seems like a lot of replys from not just the previous post but other posts are from peoples opinions who say a friend of a friend runs them and then they bag them out so obviuosly theyre not running them them selves and therefore can not really give the full pros and cons that come from personal experience.
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update on previous superior drop shackle post
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
**** I have not read the previous post so if I am repeating old information just ignore it****
Drop shackles are more work than just bolting them on because generally the limiting factor on wheel travel in any car is the shock length (and possibly other design factors.) Lots of people have thought that by buying these products they will gain wheel travel and this isn't often the case. Generally, to gain travel you will need some amount of custom work (Shock mounts, brake lines, traction bar etc) and these will add up to far more work than just bolting on a set of fancy shackles.
As such then, they are almost the same amount of work as 3/4.
In function, drop shackles are not IMHO much chop. They might be able to be made to work properly, but this would be a massive amount of work. The problem is that that as they start to open up, there is no spring to control the behaviour of the axle, so the axle is free to flop around. This leads to poor wheel loading and is what I call uncontrolled travel. Sometimes uncontrolled travel can help you (if you are on short mostly flat obsacles) but on climbs where you are putting a wheel in the air, it will make the car flop over to one side, exacerbating the cars weight transfer. A number of members have tried them here in melbourne and no one is still running them.
How to make them work? well, if the car had very limited compression travel and firm damping, with well inboard bumptops, they might be sweet. With this setup, the drooped wheel would be well controlled by the leverage of the compressed wheel, which would always be on the bumpstop. The firm damping would prevent the drooped wheel flopping about too much.
The problem is that most people who try these think of them as an accessory and not aprt of a whole solution. If you have trouble getting the compressed wheel on its bumpstop now, then scissor shackles will only make the cars behaviour worse- the car will get unpredictable on big angles.
In relation to 3/4, many of the same things are true, but when the 3/4 starts to drop away, the axle it still retained on the spring so it "rides" through the transition to 3/4 droop and so it is much less obvious. 3/4 rides like a car with a longer softer spring whereas drop shackles don't ride at all once they are into operation. I have built a few suzuki's 3/4 and it works pretty well all things considered, but people never think of it as an accessory- it's always part of a build.
PS have a think about the effective spring rate through the wheeltravel of a car with drop shackles - for the first say 4-6" of the cars compression from fully drooped, it would be almost nothing, and then go to full spring rate almost immediately. There is no way when looked at from a suspension engineering standpoint, (let alone traction at the wheel) that this is sound. Cars with drop shackles sure do look cool an a ramp though.
Don't take offence anyone, but I think that commercially avilable drop shackels don't really do what they say on the box, and certainly aren't a bolt on.
Steve.
Drop shackles are more work than just bolting them on because generally the limiting factor on wheel travel in any car is the shock length (and possibly other design factors.) Lots of people have thought that by buying these products they will gain wheel travel and this isn't often the case. Generally, to gain travel you will need some amount of custom work (Shock mounts, brake lines, traction bar etc) and these will add up to far more work than just bolting on a set of fancy shackles.
As such then, they are almost the same amount of work as 3/4.
In function, drop shackles are not IMHO much chop. They might be able to be made to work properly, but this would be a massive amount of work. The problem is that that as they start to open up, there is no spring to control the behaviour of the axle, so the axle is free to flop around. This leads to poor wheel loading and is what I call uncontrolled travel. Sometimes uncontrolled travel can help you (if you are on short mostly flat obsacles) but on climbs where you are putting a wheel in the air, it will make the car flop over to one side, exacerbating the cars weight transfer. A number of members have tried them here in melbourne and no one is still running them.
How to make them work? well, if the car had very limited compression travel and firm damping, with well inboard bumptops, they might be sweet. With this setup, the drooped wheel would be well controlled by the leverage of the compressed wheel, which would always be on the bumpstop. The firm damping would prevent the drooped wheel flopping about too much.
The problem is that most people who try these think of them as an accessory and not aprt of a whole solution. If you have trouble getting the compressed wheel on its bumpstop now, then scissor shackles will only make the cars behaviour worse- the car will get unpredictable on big angles.
In relation to 3/4, many of the same things are true, but when the 3/4 starts to drop away, the axle it still retained on the spring so it "rides" through the transition to 3/4 droop and so it is much less obvious. 3/4 rides like a car with a longer softer spring whereas drop shackles don't ride at all once they are into operation. I have built a few suzuki's 3/4 and it works pretty well all things considered, but people never think of it as an accessory- it's always part of a build.
PS have a think about the effective spring rate through the wheeltravel of a car with drop shackles - for the first say 4-6" of the cars compression from fully drooped, it would be almost nothing, and then go to full spring rate almost immediately. There is no way when looked at from a suspension engineering standpoint, (let alone traction at the wheel) that this is sound. Cars with drop shackles sure do look cool an a ramp though.
Don't take offence anyone, but I think that commercially avilable drop shackels don't really do what they say on the box, and certainly aren't a bolt on.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
OK, what I mean by not a bolt on is this:
I brought 2 pairs of superior drop shackles (front and rear) cost me $1200 +GST. Then I had to have them fitted (here in NZ all chassis mods must be done by a certified welder.)
Once they were fitted the compressed and extended lengths had to be measured and then appropriate shocks ordered. This is where the major problems came in….
The original rear shocks were too short to even connect up so I could drive the truck around so I had to wait until the I got the shocks. (truck was off the road) Another problem was that I couldn’t get a shock that was the right size, they were either going to be too long or too short, I couldn’t get the longer one because to fit them in I would have had to cut through the floor in the rear to get the mounts up high enough so the shock would fit (couldn’t angle in very far due to the diff head being on the drivers side and the shock would have fouled the diff head) so I settled on a shock that was about 1.5” too short. Still I had to custom make new shocks mounts on the rear (top and bottom) and put 50mm bumpstop spacers on, extend brake lines and diff breathers.
On the front similar story, either too short or too long. Also one of the front cross members on the chassis was going to be in the way of the driveshaft when the shackles drop right out. Modifying the chassis cross member was not an option for me due to cost.
In the end I settled for some 50mm lift GQ front shocks that just bolted in to the original mounts (only thing that when smoothly) although these are about 1.5-2” too short still. Brake lines and diff breathers were extended and 50mm bumpstop spacers again.
I haven’t really given them a good test yet (been too busy to get out), all I have done is jack each side up and tried to get the shackles to drop out. On the front this was no problem, they dropped straight out. However, the rear doesn’t drop out by its self, something is binding up (not sure if it is because of the new bushes or shackle mounts was positioned in the wrong place or what) and means that it needs some force (such as me standing on the wheel) to get the shackle to drop out. (again, this is only when it is on the jack, things might change when I get the out offroad). Only a good offroad test or a ramp will tell.
the shackles gave me a 60mm lift in the rear and a 50mm lift in the front.
Overall cost, including shackles, shocks, fitting, fab and cert, was between $3500 and $4000NZ
Here is a link to some pics…
http://forum.4x4trailhunters.com/index. ... st&p=65361
I brought 2 pairs of superior drop shackles (front and rear) cost me $1200 +GST. Then I had to have them fitted (here in NZ all chassis mods must be done by a certified welder.)
Once they were fitted the compressed and extended lengths had to be measured and then appropriate shocks ordered. This is where the major problems came in….
The original rear shocks were too short to even connect up so I could drive the truck around so I had to wait until the I got the shocks. (truck was off the road) Another problem was that I couldn’t get a shock that was the right size, they were either going to be too long or too short, I couldn’t get the longer one because to fit them in I would have had to cut through the floor in the rear to get the mounts up high enough so the shock would fit (couldn’t angle in very far due to the diff head being on the drivers side and the shock would have fouled the diff head) so I settled on a shock that was about 1.5” too short. Still I had to custom make new shocks mounts on the rear (top and bottom) and put 50mm bumpstop spacers on, extend brake lines and diff breathers.
On the front similar story, either too short or too long. Also one of the front cross members on the chassis was going to be in the way of the driveshaft when the shackles drop right out. Modifying the chassis cross member was not an option for me due to cost.
In the end I settled for some 50mm lift GQ front shocks that just bolted in to the original mounts (only thing that when smoothly) although these are about 1.5-2” too short still. Brake lines and diff breathers were extended and 50mm bumpstop spacers again.
I haven’t really given them a good test yet (been too busy to get out), all I have done is jack each side up and tried to get the shackles to drop out. On the front this was no problem, they dropped straight out. However, the rear doesn’t drop out by its self, something is binding up (not sure if it is because of the new bushes or shackle mounts was positioned in the wrong place or what) and means that it needs some force (such as me standing on the wheel) to get the shackle to drop out. (again, this is only when it is on the jack, things might change when I get the out offroad). Only a good offroad test or a ramp will tell.
the shackles gave me a 60mm lift in the rear and a 50mm lift in the front.
Overall cost, including shackles, shocks, fitting, fab and cert, was between $3500 and $4000NZ
Here is a link to some pics…
http://forum.4x4trailhunters.com/index. ... st&p=65361
NZ4x4,
Were these intended for an MQ/MK application? the lift figures you are quoting here would indicate that the shackles are 100-120mm longer than factory when fully folded. This seems lake a lot to me.
This will have a negative effect on caster on the front end. Have you done anything to correct caster?
You are on the money though- your experiences are not unusual with the hunt for more travel via drop shackles.
Steve.
Were these intended for an MQ/MK application? the lift figures you are quoting here would indicate that the shackles are 100-120mm longer than factory when fully folded. This seems lake a lot to me.
This will have a negative effect on caster on the front end. Have you done anything to correct caster?
You are on the money though- your experiences are not unusual with the hunt for more travel via drop shackles.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Yeah, maybe, but they are a lot of work to get right and I am not sure at the end of the day that the extra "travel" adds as much capability as it looks like it does.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Yea, they were for an MK Patrol. The addition of new shackle mounts (supplied) gave some lift as they were lower on the chassis than stock.Gwagensteve wrote:NZ4x4,
Were these intended for an MQ/MK application? the lift figures you are quoting here would indicate that the shackles are 100-120mm longer than factory when fully folded. This seems lake a lot to me.
This will have a negative effect on caster on the front end. Have you done anything to correct caster?
You are on the money though- your experiences are not unusual with the hunt for more travel via drop shackles.
Steve.
As far as caster goes, i havn't done anything, nor noticed any problems.
Sort of off topic but... has anyone had a similar problem with the shackles needing force applied to the wheel or axle to get them to drop? (or can hear something binding/squeaking)
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