When the Motor has been Stationary...

[TLCOR]

Hi,

I'm about to start the 3.5 litre V8 (with Weber carburettor, Edelbrock intake, electronic ignition and headers) in my '84 Stage One. The whole vehicle has been immobile for about six years. The dipstick is almost totally dry.

That's why I'm thinking it's important to start the engine correctly the first time, and avoid being too harsh on the components. I was thinking about making a list and carefully go through it.

What do you do for a gentle start?

This is what I've come up with so far: Empty and refill motor oil (detach oil pan, maybe?). Tighten various bolts (eg. around oil pan). Pour a little motor oil down the cylinders (how much?) Clean up the spark plugs and air filter. Spray WD40 down the carb, on rotating pulleys and major electrical connections and ignition parts. Refurbish the fuel pump (get old fuel out of the pipes, but how?). Is there anything I'm missing?

So, any (other) good tips/tricks before firing up? Thoughts?

Thanks!

[ISUZUROVER]

List sounds pretty good.

There was a thread on here about this and it was decided that changing the oil AFTER starting (when engine was warm) would be better.

Also - before starting, disconnect power to the coil and crank the engine over until oil pressure is good - then re-connect and start.

I would probably be more inclined to put diesel in the cylinders, or a diesel-oil mix, so it lubricates the rings better.

[cooter]

spray inox in each cylinder the night before so it penetrates flush cooling system and check for fuel leaks also when engine is running check for vac leaks using the aerostart method

[rangemann]

Mate, this months issue of 4x4monthly has everything your looking for

But I'll try to give you a run down of the important parts so you don't need to buy it:D If your rover starts you owe me a beer

1: Spark plugs.
Check the condition of you spark plugs. Replace or clean them up. Earth the plug and crank the engine to check each one for spark. Bright blue spark = good. Yellow spark = poor, will need further work.

2: Dizzy CAP.
Power for sparking comes from the coil in through the dizzy cap. Make sure connection between dizzy cap and the rotor arm are clean and firm.

3: Rotor Arm
Clean rotor arm. Do no file or sand contact end as this will increase gap between points.

4: Points
Clean points and have gap set to about 1thumbnail.

5:
Check dizzy leads and connections.

Tips for cranking:

For power during cranking hook to worn batteries up in series. (join the 2 batteries 1 -ve to 1 +ve).....I imagine you oughta be carefull with this depending on your electronics.

Squirt some fuel directly into carby to allow for any gaps in the fuel line until the pump can get fuel there.

So that's it in general.

Clean all connections. Replace any corroded or brittle leads.
Hope she turns over mate

EDIT: personal thing: don't rev it when she starts up, give it time for the oil to work through. You probally know this or probally don't beleive in it. Further more, if she doesn't stop tapping from the vavles, try putting oil directly into the pump to give it somthing to suck on to get it started.(don't know about the 3.5's but we had to do that for the holden 5.0)

[rangemann]

HAHA! So keen to help out I didn't read your post properly. Had an engine unused for 3years. Paid attentiont to everything you said and she started no worries (And that was before the 4x4magazine)

Originally it wouldn't suck the oil up, but as I explained that's no big drama.

Looks like you won't owe me that beer after all

And I did all that typing

[RangingRover]

Yes, your original list is pretty good - only a few things I'd add:
With the oil in the cylinders - squirt a decent bit into each cylinder, then turn it over by hand (ie. a socket on the balancer bolt) a couple of times before you crank it. How much oil? Up to you, but I wouldn't be starting it inside a shed or anything And you might want to warn the neighbours, so that no-one calls the fire brigade

clearing dead fuel from lines - would be easy if its an electric pump, but if its an mechanical pump you'll just have to crank it - probably wouldn't get too worried about that anyway, just make sure you've got a well charged battery, or decent jumper leads.

And I'd agree with Isuzurover about the oil change - when the oils warm, its a lot thinner, and will drain more completely, and hopefully will take the 'sludge' content with it - filter change would also obviously be well worthwhile.

[TLCOR]

Thanks for the input, everyone. Come over to Norway and I’ll buy you all beers.

I have to put some (new) oil in, it's almost empty as it sits now. Are you suggesting I should put in some cheap oil (together with the old, remaining oil) run it hot, then refill with new, better oil?

The oil filter looks pretty new, and I assume it's not the easiest part to get a hold of here - so I think it'll stay for now. Maybe I should unscrew it and flush it with new oil, also?

I figured I'd run it a couple of revs on the starter in order distribute the oil in the cylinders, and, as Ben said, build up the oil pressure. But why turn it by hand first?

I assume the oil in the cylinders will produce quite a mess (soot?) - should I clean up the plugs after first start, also?

It's an electrical pump, located some inches away, in front of, the tank. I assume the fuel filter is inside the pump?

What is inox, Cooter?

Hm, flush cooling system? Is that very necessary, I rather not want to do it. Should I?

My carb is fortunately vacuum-free. But what is this “aerostart-method”?

I will check the power of the spark.

"Putting oil directly into the pump", you say? How do I do that?

I can't wait to hear the sound of this engine, It’s the first (working, potentially) V8 I have.

[RangingRover]

My reason for turning it over by hand is in case its somewhat siezed or anything, you can work it free carefully by hand, whereas if you crank it over and it hits a point where it is a bit locked up (possibly from crap in the bores) its just going to shred the walls of the bore or damage something else. Depends on what condition it was in when you parked it there.....

Oil wise, definitely just top it up first, then run it - oil that has been standing in a motor thickens and leaves sludgy deposits all over the place (not just the sump, it will sit in the rocker covers and other places too). Once the oil warms up and pumps around, its going to pick all that crappy oil up, and drag it straight to your oil filter and sump.... If you were to change it before start up, definitely change it again after its reached operating temperature. This is also the reason for changing the oil filter - it can get full VERY quickly under those conditions.
As far as the oil filter goes, should be pretty easy to get, even in Norway - its a fairly standard sort of item, with a few alternative ones.

The oil in the cylinders won't produce soot, but it will produce massive amounts of smoke out the exhaust on first startup, until its burnt away. I'd replace the spark plugs before starting the car, but you shouldn't really need to clean them up afterwards, once it's running properly and has been warmed up etc, a few revs will clear any fouling.

The fuel filter SHOULD be located in the same place as a rangie - a small metal bowl in the engine bay. Trace your fuel lines back from the carb, and you should find it. I would be very doubtful that the main filter is in the tank, but its possible.

Flushing cooling system - worthwhile. You'll understand why when you see what comes out. Not 100% necessary right now, but should be an item high on your list.

The 'aerostart method' is used to check for air leaks in your manifold/carb setup - you spray the aerostart along the edge of the intake manifold where its bolted to the head, and where the carb is bolted to the manifold. If it has an air leak, it will suck the aerosol in, and engine rpm will increase.....

[cooter]

inox is a kind of lubricat spray like wd40

i woukld not use oil as it is too thick an will not compress
will foul plus etc

a small amout of diesel sprayeed into the plug holes would work quite well


as for the oil just use cheap diesel oil till it warms up then drain the detergents in the diesel oil will flush your motor out for u

[TLCOR]

If they don't have an oil filter on the local gas station (something I doubt), would it be OK to flush it with oil, or clean it in some way? (After running the old oil through, of course).

My logic is that, I would spread the deposits from the old oil around in the motor, when it reaches working temperature - I guess not?

I've heard a lot of different stories about what to put in the cylinders, and it has made me unsure - what would you use, and WHY?

Regarding the cooling system flushing - yeah, I know what kind of mess that can be located inside there, trust me. But could I just unhook a single tube, put a garden hose at the motor end, and flush through? Or, how would you attack this?

Hm, diesel oil? That's interesting, Cooter. What exactly are these detergents? I assume that what they call "agriculture oil" will also work?

I have currently "rebuilt" the fuel pump and its filter, the main fuel filter and emptied the fuel lines. I'm proceeding things slow, won't have much time for it next week, though.

I appreciate the help!

[RangingRover]

The deposits from the old oil will already be all around the motor, by running it before you change the oil, you are going to try and get most of that into your oil filter (thats its job). I really don't know that you could 'flush' the oil filter, and I don't think I'd want to....

As to what you put in the cylinders - doesn't make much difference in the end, as long as its a lubricant of some sort. When we build new motors, we usually run a little oil in each cylinder while its being put together to aid on first startup. Its also used when doing a compression test on cylinders which post a low result, to see if its rings or head gasket. It won't cause any problems, unless you fill the cylinders up with it. A couple of squirts in each cylinder will be fine. But you can use most kinds of lubricant sprays etc... Use what you have handy and feel comfortable with.

Most diesel powered vehicles use a specific oil, due to the amount of carbon they build up in their oil. This oil has additives designed to remove the carbon. Not sure what you mean by agriculture oil, but you don't want anything too thick in viscosity terms remember.

Garden hose would be fine, I think, or you can buy some specific coolant flush also.... Either way, as long as the bulk of the crap is removed.

[DL]

Hi All,

Might our friend in Norway also want to prime the oil pump as well, especially when he says the dipstick is nearly dry?

DL

[ARangie]

Have you packed the oil pump with vasoline?
This is th only way to prime the rover engine oil pump.

[cooter]

carefull using a garden hose as most mains pressures are in excess of 45 to 50 psi and considering your cooling system is designed to run at a max of 25 psi you may ruptture something if you do flush with a hose only turn it on pretty slow and put it in the bottom hose and turn heater on


as for what to put in the cylinders i have always used inox or diesel due to it penetrating properties and for the fact that it is thin

i have heard of farmers filling filters with methylated spirits and flushing them but would not recomend it at al but if you cant get a new one than so be it


as for the diesel oil any thing with a specific c rating (eg. cf,cg, ) will be fine

[justinC]

TLCOR,

The oil filter should be the same as any VOLVO 1 or 2 series 4 cylinder. say, a 244 GL or similar. The same listing in our aftermarket catalogues here in oz, a RYCO Z89A. Another equivalent is for a Toyota Hilux 4 cylinder diesel, the L (2.2litre) the 2L(2.4 litre) and the 3L(2.8litre) the RYCO Z9 in this country.

If the engine is earlier than 1975, they take the equivalent for a few GM products, 6 cylinder and V8 Holdens in this country.

JC

[TLCOR]

I guess my method of locating the garden hose is OK, too? Or where would you put the water pressure to get things out of the system, maybe not through the thermostat (which will be closed?)? I really can't imagine the pressure from the garden hose will destroy anything inside there - after all, it's all metal?

Yeah, heater, it seems that mine is disconnected. Where and how should the two pipes be joined? And will this make the flushing-operation any more difficult?

And onto the oil pump, which I haven't even considered, what should be done to it, and why? Hell, where is this thing even located?

Justin, that is geniusly! They are like $6 a piece for the Volvo 240-series, which you're saying they'll fit from?


Keep the comments coming!

[cooter]

the radiator and hoses and heater will not handle 60 psi trust me found out the hard way years ago

[TLCOR]

My heater is disconnected, and I really can't seem to undetstand what'll break - what broke?

Well, I can turn down the pressure some - it worked well last time, on my Lada Niva (then I had my radiator off from the vehicle).

More suggestions?

[cooter]

i would suggest taking the radiator out and give it a good wash inside and out vinegar it great for thiss and then you can jam as mutch pressure as your hose can put out into your engine it would be wise to pull your thermostat out so as to completely flush the motor and check the thermostat while it is out i do this by suspending it in a saucpan full of cool water then heat the water while measuring what temp it opens at ( dont let it sit at the bottom of the pan)


and dont leave the vinegar in the radiator for 2 long as it will eventually eat it away

[TLCOR]

Yeah, maybe I'll unmount the radiator - it looked pretty tight there, though. This is starting to become a major job, and I just wanted to start the damn thing.

I would love to have some input on this, also:

Yeah, heater, it seems that mine is disconnected. Where and how should the two pipes be joined? And will this make the flushing-operation any more difficult?

And onto the oil pump, which I haven't even considered, what should be done to it, and why? Hell, where is this thing even located?

Justin, that is geniusly! They are like $6 a piece for the Volvo 240-series, which you're saying they'll actually fit from?

Thanks!

[zen]

just start it then!!

CHARGE BATT UP WELL

new fuel..(6yr old petrol will be bad)

top the oil up

remove dizzy cap,check it is clear of spiders etc.put cap back on(use same one if ok)

remove spark plugs..(clean plugs?)

squirt wd40(or similar) down bores.

allow to soak into rings for a few hours(over night?)

turn over engine by HAND (to check it has not seized)

crank over engine with starter untill oil pressure shows..

replace plugs..(MAKE SURE YOU GET LEADS ON CORRECTLY)

try starting!!

easy not complicated


if it runs THEN SERVICE and replace water antifreeze etc..you can even start it without water in AS LONG AS ONLY RUN IT FOR A minute...no point in wasting money if engine is shot..

[zen]

oh if it does run then DONT forget to replace brake fluid etc before using in anger..

[460cixy]

just start it all ready why does every one treat them like there fine china and will break . mine has been known to sit for a year or more at a time i just throw a battery in it check its got oil and water and fire it up. that easy. sanga on outters here had a bet last time we fired it up he said it wouldent go i said it would start in 4 or 5 turns 3 revolution it fired and went its an old engine its not the end of the world if it takes a few second for the oil light to go out

[cloughy]

Fark man its a 3.5, there no good for a boat anchor and worth less for scrap, just start it already

[TLCOR]

Haha, you guys bring the funny.

It's my first (potentially run-able) V8 motor, I have to treat it with some respect. Besides, I thought it was a well-respected engine in general? I'm curious about how the carb will work in off camber situations, but that's a whole other story.

I'd still like to know where the oil pump is located.

And if anyone has a picture of how the heater plumbing is laid out, I would really appreciate it - I need to figure that stuff out!

Thanks for the input!

[ISUZUROVER]

I'm curious about how the carb will work in off camber situations, but that's a whole other story.

The CARBS (should have 2) work fine offroad, but will need new diaphragms by now, (if not a complete overhall).

[cloughy]

I'm curious about how the carb will work in off camber situations, but that's a whole other story.

The CARBS (should have 2) work fine offroad, but will need new diaphragms by now, (if not a complete overhall).

Hi,

I'm about to start the 3.5 litre V8 (with Weber carburettor, Edelbrock intake, electronic ignition and headers) in my '84 Stage One.

Thanks!

[ISUZUROVER]

I'm curious about how the carb will work in off camber situations, but that's a whole other story.

The CARBS (should have 2) work fine offroad, but will need new diaphragms by now, (if not a complete overhall).

Hi,

I'm about to start the 3.5 litre V8 (with Weber carburettor, Edelbrock intake, electronic ignition and headers) in my '84 Stage One.

Thanks!

Thanks cloughy - this bloody thread has been going on for so long I had forgotten.

[460cixy]

if thay were strombergs then 45o and over are not a problem but webbers are a diffrant story. i think thay do about 10o and its all over su type carbs are the same as strombergs only more power and work better on steep ground

[TLCOR]

I'm getting closer to the notorious start-up, but before we let this thread die we have to tie up all the loose ends.

I'm a little worried about the engine being pretty much dry from oil, where is the (I assume) leak(s) most likely located? And what should be done? I obviously don't want to fill up with new, expensive oil if it pours right out again. So, if I have the diesel/flush-oil in for awhile, use the motor normally (so it gets cold, warm, cold, warm, etc) and change the oil later on - would the flush have the same efficiency as if I changed it right away? Would diesel oil have any bad affects in the motor? Thoughts?

And regarding the oil flush-procedure itself, this applies only if I do change the oil immediately. I think I'll drain what's left of the engine's current, cold oil and fill up with cheap diesel oil (how much should it be, and how many litres are max/min?), run the motor hot, then change oil filter and unbolt (to clean up) the oil pan (is the leak likely to be coming from it?) But then comes the questions, I assume the oil is dangerously hot right after shutting off (how hot?) - how long should I wait to drain the oil? (I don't want the sludge to dry up again, of course). I figured revving the motor for a 10-minute period is OK - or should the headers really be glowing?

Is the oil filter fairly reachable, it looks so tight.

And how am I supposed to turn the balancer bolt? The biggest socket I found is 32 mm and still too small, any ideas?

Thanks!