Engine FUBAR - 1.6 (16v) TBI Conversion

[NiXoN]

Howdy,
Tapping noise started a week or so ago, pretty unpleasant, but she
still runs. First thought was valve clearasnce, no worries - get 'em
adjusted...pull into mechanics this morning, he says "..that 'aint
valves..."!!! F#$%%^ !!!! So I need a new Donk for the coily!! Would
love to upgrade to 1.6, but very $ dependant! Happy to stick with the 1.3 if someones got one cheap! Other conversions considered...again if cheap!!

Any thoughts, help suggestions appreciated (will aslo post on OL)

Many thanks guys

Cheers
Rob

[muppet_man67]

youve dropped a skirt off one of your pistons. very common on a coily. infact very few that dont do it before 200, 000kms and most do it anywhere from 100-150,000kms have heard of them failing as low as 50,000kms. couple of options keep driving it till it dies (if its still running fine and you can put up with the noise then who knows it might last 50,000kms
get new pistons if you have the know how or are friends with a mechanic then it may only cost you a couple of hundred dollars in parts. this option depends on how old the engine is, if its done more then 150,000kms it hangs a bit more in the balance on whether its worth getting a new engine. however its pointless paying for a replacement engine with the same kilometers as the one you have.

New engine.
1.6 conversion as you said expensive. most people who do it were planning the conversion anyhow.

[NiXoN]

Cheers Muppet!
Ive just clocked over 230...so i guess im not all that surprised...just unprepared! Might have to push my luck and see if the tax man is kind this year!!
Theres a reco'd 1.6 carby available at the mo, he's after 2k - aside from being about $1900 short it is tempting!!!!

[muppet_man67]

sounds exy for a carbed 1.6 unless it has low kms. for that price see if you can get the full front cut. ie including aircon and powersteering. and all the other add on just because its a 1.6 doesnt mean that you wont have engine dramas althouh they do tend to last more then the 1.3

[mikesmith]

he said reco so u would assume its fairly low kms hey??

[Casey_leonard]

Hey NiXoN
Newcastle Jap Engines have low K 1.6 carby (G16A) import engines for $900
and 1.6 (G16B) Efi engines for $1395. The EFi price doesn't include computer and wiring for a conversion though.
Their Phone number is: 02 4956 6755.
Also check out: Suzi Four Wreckers near Penrith on 02 98330216.
Cheers

[NiXoN]

Thanks for the replys chaps!
Ive spied a 1.6efi that is VERY tempting, Im off to have a look see at it this weekend...any tell tail signs I should be aware of?

Many thanks

[bazooked]

ya chek the block for cracks around the cylinders and any sus oil/water leaks.

[Casey_leonard]

Ive spied a 1.6efi that is VERY tempting, Im off to have a look see at it this weekend...any tell tail signs I should be aware of?

Not much if it still assembled.
If you can pull the sump off you would have a better chance at it's condition.
Look for fret marks on the crankshaft where the pully attaches, apparently they have a habit of coming loose and stuffing the crank.
As already mentioned, cracks in the block, these may not be visible to the naked eye, so if it has a lot of K's on it get this checked out.
Also check for any tell tales of the piston skirts hitting the bore and check for cracks in the pistons themselves near the gudgeon pins. Check the sump for sludge and/or metal fileings, heavy sludge would indicate lack of oil changes and fileings something serious.
If you plan on a recon before fitting just check the crank and block, as far as I know they don't suffer any head problems when used normally and serviced regularly. (I could be wrong here though).

[Wanderer]

cracks in the block? is this common for the G16B? would coolant in the oil in the sump be an indicator of this?

[Damo]

You might be better off getting just a 1.6 bottom end and putting your 1.3 head on that. I would recommend that if you were doing that, to get your head checked out before swapping it over.

[cj]

You might be better off getting just a 1.6 bottom end and putting your 1.3 head on that. I would recommend that if you were doing that, to get your head checked out before swapping it over.

Then you might want to get some 1.6 exhaust valves put in it.

[NiXoN]

Thanks for the responses!!
Why would i be beter off with a 1.6 bottom end? Better compression etc? Surely the efi setup outwieghs the carby anyday ( i am assuming the efi wont bolt onto the 1.3 head?)...? The engine Im looking at comes with everything (efi, loom comp etc) for a pretty good price. I was thinking that ill just slam it in there (yeah yeah, a bit more complicated than that i know) and driving it with a view to rebuilding or reconditioning it after the tax mans visit next year! Im applying a little bit of bling optimism here, but i will be givin the engine a good look thru !

On a related matter....is this job going to be much easier if i remove the front clip?

Thanks agin

[Damo]

You might be better off getting just a 1.6 bottom end and putting your 1.3 head on that. I would recommend that if you were doing that, to get your head checked out before swapping it over.

Then you might want to get some 1.6 exhaust valves put in it.

If he want's to keep the costs down he should be OK with the valves as is. How much bigger are 1.6 ex. valves?

[Casey_leonard]

cracks in the block? is this common for the G16B

Don't be frightened off a G16B because of this as it seems that this is the exception, and not the rule, but you need to be aware of it being a potential problem, they are still a great engine and seem to go forever with or without knocks and rattles.
I am not sure exacly where they crack but I seem to remember someone saying that they crack along the the upper crank jounals, so if this is the case there wouldn't be any coolant contamination, someone else may advise you better on this. I think if I was in your situation and definately wanted a 1600 EFi, I would either go for one with low K's and stick it straight in, or by a cheap one suitable for a recon, anything in between may be a little risky for long term use and reliablity.
If you go ahead with the conversion, be sure to keep us up to date as to how it's going.

[moose]

You might be better off getting just a 1.6 bottom end and putting your 1.3 head on that. I would recommend that if you were doing that, to get your head checked out before swapping it over.

Then you might want to get some 1.6 exhaust valves put in it.

If he want's to keep the costs down he should be OK with the valves as is. How much bigger are 1.6 ex. valves?

x2 !!!!!!!!

[RB zook]

best bet it should be right to pull it down and replace all the pistons with better after market ones

mine done a skirt bout 6 mounths ago and i just replaced that5 piston now another one went and it went in a big way conrod bent the bore is rooted beyond repair

dont keep driving it if you can help it

[NiXoN]

Well I thank you for your advice, but i bought it anyway!!!!! Turns out to be the single point (G16a??) rather than the multipoint injection i was expecting, but its a bit simpler and as a bonus i dont have to sort out the existing snokle location!!! For the moment Im going to install it any enjoy....will look at rebuilding it as time/$ permits! Out of interest I got the engine, EFI settup (including extra comp) loom (ready to pretty much plug n play(!)) full exhaust system (new cat) that sits above the chassis and including extraxctors, 5 speed inc new clutch and all the other stuff that bolts to an engine! (reco alternater, new solenoid in starter etc etc )for about $1500....think i did alright!!!

Thanks again, Ill keep you updated with progress

Rob

[NiXoN]

Well, Ive made a start, and so far so good! Although I do have a question...has anyone got a wiring diagram for this engine? yes Ive searchged!!!Although i got a loom with it, it seems to be a bit different than extpected and the coilys wiring may be different to the earlier 1.3 it came from, anyone know if the looms are different(coil to leaf)?
only other hurdle is to get the exhaust modded slightly, its a great setup - tucks in nicely above the rails, but the muffler is way too close to the rear spring!

Cheers

[christover1]

have emailed ya work adress with tbi codes info, not a wiring diagram, but some useful stuff that could help.I only got efi diagrams, and some countries are different anyway

christover

[Santos]

Ok so it's a 1.6l G16a Single point efi?

I got the Geo Tracker factory service manual somewhere here, i'll post you some scans tommorrow.

For those who don't know, the Geo Tracker is a rebadged Suzuki Sidekick
or for us Aussies a Vitara

[christover1]

http://www.suzukiinfo.com/

I've emailed what I think is tbi wiring diagram, copied from above link.
If its wrong, take a look, its a very useful web page

christover

[NiXoN]

Many thanks Gents,

<<Ok so it's a 1.6l G16a Single point efi?>>3
Santos...
Yep its that one!!! If you could send me those scans Id be most greatful!! Out of interest, when and into what where these engines used? More than likely a swift i beleive....?

Ta chris, I have had a look there but im a bit lazy and didnt want to read all of them!!! It didnt stand out in the title, so i moved on!!! Im back in the office tomorrow, so ill have a look through what u sent me then.

Thanks heaps Lads

Rob

[Santos]

Saturday, definetely saturday. PM me your address and for good measure pm again on saturday

[lay80n]

Many thanks Gents,

<<Ok so it's a 1.6l G16a Single point efi?>>3
Santos...
Yep its that one!!! If you could send me those scans Id be most greatful!! Out of interest, when and into what where these engines used? More than likely a swift i beleive....?

Ta chris, I have had a look there but im a bit lazy and didnt want to read all of them!!! It didnt stand out in the title, so i moved on!!! Im back in the office tomorrow, so ill have a look through what u sent me then.

Thanks heaps Lads

Rob

Single point 1.6L was in earlier model vitara's in Aust. Prob in states etc as the suzuki sidekick and Geo Tracker.

Layto....

[cj]

Single point 1.6L was in earlier model vitara's in Aust. Prob in states etc as the suzuki sidekick and Geo Tracker.

Layto....

Was it something offered in a particular State here as I haven't come across any so far?

[NiXoN]

Wow, I forgot how much fun this engine swap stuff is!!!! This engine has come out of a sierra (allegedly!! ) but it dont want to sit right! It came with the driver side engine mount plate and i can get the bolts in no worries, but when i get to the gerabox bolts, im out by 15-20mm... Ba$tard.... Should i be starting at the gearbox and working forward, or am i $hit out of luck and have to do some further tweeks? I am assuming the mounts in the coily are in the same possi as a leafy?
Your thoughts appreciated!!!

Cheers
rob

[Casey_leonard]

Should i be starting at the gearbox and working forward,

Most definately, bolt the engine up to the box and have the box sitting where it should be, then set engine mounts, this will assure everything stays aligned.

[Casey_leonard]

Should i be starting at the gearbox and working forward,

Most definately, bolt the engine up to the gearbox and have it sitting where it should be, then set engine mounts, this will assure everything stays aligned.

[NiXoN]

Wow, I forgot how much fun this engine swap stuff is!!!! This engine has come out of a sierra (allegedly!! ) but it dont want to sit right! It came with the driver side engine mount plate and i can get the bolts in no worries, but when i get to the gerabox bolts, im out by 15-20mm... Ba$tard.... Should i be starting at the gearbox and working forward, or am i $hit out of luck and have to do some further tweeks? I am assuming the mounts in the coily are in the same possi as a leafy?
Your thoughts appreciated!!!

Cheers
rob