Drop Shackels Sierra

Post by **Pep** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:13 am

Hi all
Sorry if this has been asked before (could not find on search)

Can anyone tell me their thoughts on drop shackels on a sierra

Thanks

Post by **grimbo** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:11 am

they are a gimmicky piece of rubbish

Post by **joshnz1** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:50 am

they r very good if u set them up right,long shocks,brake lines etc,i have some on mine and flexes better than any leaf zook ive seen

Post by **Pep** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:49 am

grimbo wrote:they are a gimmicky piece of rubbish

Hi Grimbo

Fair enough, why? and wat else can i do to get more travel

Reason i ask is that i find myself with wheels off the ground as the springs dont seem to drop all that much and usually the one i need for traction. (i know i need to get some kind of diff lock or something like that. That's the next project $$$$)

Thanks JohnNZ for your feedback

Thanks Pep

Post by **joshnz1** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:54 am

in a zook if ur doing any good 4x4ing u will lift wheels off the ground a long way,its all the fun in having a zook.
a locker will be cheaper than drop shackles

Post by **410sierra** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:24 am

drop shackels work by letting the axle drop they dont actually apply and downward force there for wheel slippage is increased

Post by **grimbo** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:29 pm

do a search for superior AND shackles and there are a whole bunch of threads expalining the whys and why nots for them

Post by **Snakezooki** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:08 pm

Drop shackles are unnecessary,

Mine has standard springs, snake shackles, standard mounts, and it can drive its wheel base on the ramp...

I know its hard to believe so here is a pic....

Post by **DiddyZook** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:08 pm

If springs are not drooping. Before even considering longer or drop shackles, check your shock lengths and stiffness of springs. Most restriction on flex comes from shocks running out of travel before the spring stops flexing. Stiff springs will also lift rather than flex, remember Zooks do not weigh much.

Comments so far have been good. It is correct that drop shackles do not provide sufficient down force on the wheel to assist traction, a locker would transfer the torque required to the wheel/s with traction assiting you past the obstacle. It may look like a wheel dropped deep into that rut to reach terra firma is giving excellent control and stability, but chances are it is the other three wheels which are supporting the vehicle and giving traction. The natural alternatives to this are, lift the wheel in the rut, or drop that corner into the rut and the opposing wheel lifts (same effect with drop shackles). The locker would get you further.

As Joshnz1 said, drive a Zook offroad and you will have fun lifting wheels. This does not make the vehicle less safe or harder to drive and does add some thrill factor. Everyone does it, just look at a few of the avatars Zook members use.

Post by **goodie** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:13 pm

Snakezooki wrote:Drop shackles are unnecessary,

Mine has standard springs, snake shackles, standard mounts, and it can drive its wheel base on the ramp...

I know its hard to believe so here is a pic....

picture does not work for me.

Post by **Guy** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:16 pm

Haveing run drop shackles, and spring over .. and then normal "solid" shackles ... I would go the normal shackles any day of the week, I could get the same amont of flex with tarditional (albeit longer) shackles without the tradeoffs of uncotrolled flex and better steering response.

In the rear they will generally create probelms with axle wrap (also in the front but is less of an issue)

Spend your $$ on decent quality longer softer springs and get some lockers .. drop shackles are a gimick that looks great on a ramp that does not translate to performance in the bush.

Post by **Vagabond** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:45 pm

Get a locker. I've got Lock-Rights front and rear, and I love them. Who cares if you have a wheel in the air if the ones on the ground are supplying traction?

Post by **lay80n** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:29 pm

The extra droop afforded from whacky shackles is usually without and frce down on it, as the shackle just "flops" down. Without and force on teh wheel (or low force) there will not be much traction anyway. For the extra effort to make drop shackles work properly IMHO they are not worth it.

Layto....

Post by **suzuki boy** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:44 pm

I have lock rights f&r and extended shackles and the shackles did'nt make much difference at all!

Post by **lay80n** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:30 pm

suzuki boy wrote:I have lock rights f&r and extended shackles and the shackles did'nt make much difference at all!

We are talking about drop shackles here, not extended shackles.

Layto...

Post by **zookmad** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:29 pm

What is the ideal length for extended shacles

Post by **joshnz1** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:35 pm

1 inch of lift so 2 inches longer

Post by **zookmad** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:49 pm

joshnz1 wrote:1 inch of lift so 2 inches longer

Does that also apply to SPOA aswell

Post by **joshnz1** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:05 pm

why would u want more lift with spoa?yeah i find its a good rule of thumb 1 inch shackle lift for everything,other wise they get way to long and unsafe

Post by **lay80n** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:21 pm

zookmad wrote:What is the ideal length for extended shacles

There is no ideal length. It depends on variable such as spring length and stiffness of pack as well as ride height considerations.

Layto....

Post by **zookmad** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:21 pm

joshnz1 wrote:why would u want more lift with spoa?yeah i find its a good rule of thumb 1 inch shackle lift for everything,other wise they get way to long and unsafe

Dont want lift just want more flex. i was considering superiour drop shackles but looks like i am fabricating some extended shackles. Thanks

Post by **suzuki boy** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:23 pm

sorry my bad!

Post by **lay80n** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:26 pm

Even though you said you searched, this has been covered soo many times before its not Funny. Both the flop shackles and the extended shakle questions. Think they are in the bible too.

Layto....

Post by **Bad JuJu** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:52 pm

lay80n wrote:The extra droop afforded from whacky shackles is usually without and frce down on it, as the shackle just "flops" down. Without and force on teh wheel (or low force) there will not be much traction anyway. For the extra effort to make drop shackles work properly IMHO they are not worth it.

Layto....

How is this different from coil spring vehicles where the spring drops away with droop?

Post by **christover1** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:58 pm

Bad JuJu wrote:
lay80n wrote:The extra droop afforded from whacky shackles is usually without and frce down on it, as the shackle just "flops" down. Without and force on teh wheel (or low force) there will not be much traction anyway. For the extra effort to make drop shackles work properly IMHO they are not worth it.

Layto....
How is this different from coil spring vehicles where the spring drops away with droop?

It isn't.
Result is the same.
IMHO
christover

Post by **mike** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:37 am

christover1 wrote:
Bad JuJu wrote:
lay80n wrote:The extra droop afforded from whacky shackles is usually without and frce down on it, as the shackle just "flops" down. Without and force on teh wheel (or low force) there will not be much traction anyway. For the extra effort to make drop shackles work properly IMHO they are not worth it.

Layto....
How is this different from coil spring vehicles where the spring drops away with droop?
It isn't.
Result is the same.
IMHO
christover

Yup agree here completely, not saying they are the universal flex panacea but they do have a place and can be a reasonable compromise. Most of the problems I've seen relate to them being set up as a "bolt the shackles on and walk away" approach. Setting them up is not as simple and straight forward as you'd think.

Post by **lay80n** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:13 pm

christover1 wrote:
Bad JuJu wrote:
lay80n wrote:The extra droop afforded from whacky shackles is usually without and frce down on it, as the shackle just "flops" down. Without and force on teh wheel (or low force) there will not be much traction anyway. For the extra effort to make drop shackles work properly IMHO they are not worth it.

Layto....
How is this different from coil spring vehicles where the spring drops away with droop?
It isn't.
Result is the same.
IMHO
christover

Agree. Uncontained coils are just as useless for the same reason. Ramp queen style. Better to have descent controlled travel and lockers. Friction is calculated with the static co-efficiant of the tyre and a component of its normal force. So if a spring is pushing down on the tyre then the available traction is greater than if the only force is the component of gravitation acceleration acting on the tyre wheel etc mass alone. You will still have a bit more traction than a wheel in the air, but not much, and will prob still result in wheel spin anyway. There is also the chance that the whacky shackles will open up on big side angles. Some people say this cant happen some say it can. The potential is there, just depends on idividual application. Running these shackles in the front can also effect steering too.

Layto....

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... p+shackles

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... p+shackles

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... p+shackles

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... p+shackles

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... p+shackles

Results from a quick search- plenty more too.

Post by **Rhett** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:21 pm

I have run drop shakles and didn't like them they seem to create pig rooting when spining all four tires.

you can make them apply downward force though if you bumpstop it a bit before full comprestion. it will then pivit the diff on the bumpstop and the up wheel will push the drooping wheel down.

But hey flex is over rated just get a well balanced car with lockers and drive

Post by **VR Rodeo** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:48 pm

lay80n wrote:So if a spring is pushing down on the tyre then the available traction is greater than if the only force is the component of gravitation acceleration acting on the tyre wheel etc mass alone. You will still have a bit more traction than a wheel in the air, but not much, and will prob still result in wheel spin anyway.

Just a thought but wont a spring at full flex be exerting an upward force on the wheel as it will be trying to return to its rest position... and as stated by Rhett there would be additional downward force as it pivots on the bumpstop, not a great amount but some

Personally though, for your money there are better options

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:49 pm

This has been covered many times, but in a car with outboard bump stops, relatively little leverage can be exerted on the drooped wheel by the compressed wheel. (Which is why I inboard the bumpstops- more flex)

In a light car like a sierra with biggish tyres, the tail tends to wag the dog a bit with drop shackles as car ends up pivoting around the tyre that is down in the whole because there is no force pulling it up. ( if that makes sense) With lockers this will be less of an issue but then you have the traction to drive the car into an angle where the shackles unload and it gets really spooky.

It is possible to set up the suspension to work with drop shackles but IMHO a car with less travel all controlled will be easier and more predictable to drive, especially on angles.

I agree - maximum useful shackle extension is about 2" It does get a bit more out of the springs as long as you have enough shock length to make them work. They improve the ride a bit too because they help to prevent a bit of bottoming.

Steve.

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