Flat-towing - legality and practicality

[chimpboy]

I am just thinking hypothetically about a set-up like this:

http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/flattow.html





... but obviously not with a jeep!

This would be with the towed-vehicle not being road-registered. Would this be legal? Would it be safe?

Just curious about this as an option for a non-registered toy, towing with the Maverick.

Jason

[pcman]

i think you will find that the vehicle being towed must be registered

[bogged]

This would be with the towed-vehicle not being road-registered. Would this be legal? Would it be safe?

I would say not legal.. Trailers have to be registered...Why would you get away with this being unregoed?

[Eddy]

Towed Vehicle needs to be registered.
Illegal in some states. (SA ok)

Towed my LJ50s for thousands of km, also a F20 D-hat and a Patrol.

[-Scott-]

Towed Vehicle needs to be registered.

No doubt - but registered as what? Car or trailer?

If it's unpowered, not under independent control, would lights and indicators be sufficient?

I guess they'd want "trailer brakes" if it's over 750kg...

[chimpboy]

Towed Vehicle needs to be registered.

No doubt - but registered as what? Car or trailer?

If it's unpowered, not under independent control, would lights and indicators be sufficient?

I guess they'd want "trailer brakes" if it's over 750kg...

Good questions... I'd like to find out. It seems like it's less and less worthwhile and/or possible to keep a modified 4by legally registered. But it's cheaper and safer to flat-tow than to have the vehicle on a trailer, what with the higher COG, the need for tying down, etc.

[disco-damo]

Would need to be braked and rego'd as a trailer in vic and most states im pretty sure.
As far as registering it as a trailer you will have to play lucky dip and see what you come up with at vicroads and if you don't get the right answer go to another vicroads and you probably will.
Good idea though, we used to have a bar just with 2 trailer hitches on it and a ball reciever front and rear but you needed to be in the towed vehical and it got hairy at speed

[Charlie]

Have seen a suzuki serria flat towed by a large camper type of vehicle, this was in NSW and it's more common in the USA I believe. I'm not sure how you go as far as brakes, maybe there is a loop hole if your tow vehicle is big enougth? Seem to recall that not all cars be flat towed?
Charlie

[-Scott-]

Have seen a suzuki serria flat towed by a large camper type of vehicle, this was in NSW and it's more common in the USA I believe. I'm not sure how you go as far as brakes, maybe there is a loop hole if your tow vehicle is big enougth? Seem to recall that not all cars be flat towed?
Charlie

Flat towing is definitely legal (in some states) but the vehicle being towed is generally registered.

Is it legal to flat tow an unregistered vehicle?

Scott

[antt]

just had a quick read of the towing guide on queensland transports website

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/ltas ... mation.pdf

doesn't mention the vehicle havin to be registered. but i'd want confirmation first

[bogged]

No doubt - but registered as what? Car or trailer?

If it's unpowered, not under independent control, would lights and indicators be sufficient?

It would be registered as what it is - a vehicle. Why would it be a trailer? Do you really think they would let you get away with that one?

[-Scott-]

No doubt - but registered as what? Car or trailer?

If it's unpowered, not under independent control, would lights and indicators be sufficient?

It would be registered as what it is - a vehicle. Why would it be a trailer? Do you really think they would let you get away with that one?

What are the defining features of a "vehicle"? 4 wheels? Steering wheel? Engine? Independent motion? Carrying driver/passengers?

If "independent motion with driver/passengers" is a significant factor, then it doesn't apply when the vehicle is being towed - so why must all the normal "vehicle" requirements be met?

The usual tail lights and indicators - yes. Brakes (once a certain mass is reached) - yes. Headlights and windscreen wipers? WGAF?
Side intrusion protection, ABS and airbags on a trailer?

Somewhere along the line, a "trailer" becomes a "vehicle" and falls under a different set of regulations. So when does a "vehicle" stop being a "vehicle" and return to being a "trailer"?

Maybe that's why it could be a trailer.

Scott

[bogged]

Maybe that's why it could be a trailer.
Scott

does it have an engine? can it be used to move itself?

Probably the same reason you have to trailer/flat bed an unregistered car anywhere for repairs, or Vicroads etc , and not just tow it.

[jav]

try to reg as a home built tractor, as for brake's ,over rider setup with cable to brake pedal, that how the pro's do them, brake's that is.

[grimbo]

There is another thread about this on here somewhere I think I started. It has some more info from VicRoads init. I also found out from VicRoads that the things like motorhomes with the Sierra flat towed behind are legal because the motorhome is 3 times the weight of the Sierra.

[HJ60_HEATHUS]

It is certainly legal to flat tow in NSW, but only with a solid bar (no straps) I have seen alot of coach size campers flat towing smaller 'town' 4bies around.

another issue you'll have to address, if it has a manual gear box, is a free wheel hub like system on the driven axel. if you flat tow spinning the output shaft, it will damage the box, as the gears are not spinning to pick up oil

[chimpboy]

another issue you'll have to address, if it has a manual gear box, is a free wheel hub like system on the driven axel. if you flat tow spinning the output shaft, it will damage the box, as the gears are not spinning to pick up oil

Even if the transfer case is in neutral?

[N*A*M]

yes, you need to disconnect the rear shaft.

[thomo.in.a.gq]

No doubt - but registered as what? Car or trailer?

If it's unpowered, not under independent control, would lights and indicators be sufficient?

It would be registered as what it is - a vehicle. Why would it be a trailer? Do you really think they would let you get away with that one?

What are the defining features of a "vehicle"? 4 wheels? Steering wheel? Engine? Independent motion? Carrying driver/passengers?

If "independent motion with driver/passengers" is a significant factor, then it doesn't apply when the vehicle is being towed - so why must all the normal "vehicle" requirements be met?

The usual tail lights and indicators - yes. Brakes (once a certain mass is reached) - yes. Headlights and windscreen wipers? WGAF?
Side intrusion protection, ABS and airbags on a trailer?

Somewhere along the line, a "trailer" becomes a "vehicle" and falls under a different set of regulations. So when does a "vehicle" stop being a "vehicle" and return to being a "trailer"?

Maybe that's why it could be a trailer.

Scott

"motor vehicle" means a vehicle that is used or intended to be used on a
highway and that is built to be propelled by a motor that forms part of the
vehicle but does not include-

(a) a vehicle intended to be used on a railway or tramway; or

(b) a motorised wheel-chair capable of a speed of not more than 10
kilometres per hour which is used solely for the conveyance of an
injured or disabled person; or

(c) a vehicle that is not a motor vehicle by virtue of a declaration under
sub-section (2)(b);


"trailer" means a vehicle that is built to be towed, or is towed, by a
motor vehicle, but does not include a motor vehicle that is being towed;

[chimpboy]

"trailer" means a vehicle that is built to be towed, or is towed, by a
motor vehicle, but does not include a motor vehicle that is being towed;

Okay, but could you register the A frame and attachments as a trailer, perhaps? It's a sort of wheel-less car trailer, with the wheels provided by the car you're towing.

Maybe not. It just seems a bit daft since this is safer than putting the towed vehicle on a tandem trailer, imho, so it should be encouraged as a better option.

[grimbo]

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... ight=frame

That was the link to the info I got off VicRoads many moons ago

[bogged]

this is safer than putting the towed vehicle on a tandem trailer,

Im 50/50 on that statement... I'll think on it for a while..

[N*A*M]

buggy builders should build a rolling chassis (with the towing a frame mounts) and register it as a trailer. then drop the motor in and away you go.

i agree that it would be safer than a tandem car trailer as long as it is braked.

what if your front knuckle castor was out, would the towed vehicle wander?

[bogged]

what if your front knuckle castor was out, would the towed vehicle wander?

Im also wondering what happens if you blow diffs, seize things, cant tow it - what do you do then?

[N*A*M]

you'd still have the option of dragging it onto a trailer.

bugger putting little tyres on the buggy though. then you'd also have to strap the swampers onto the buggy somehow.

[J Top]

Fully floating diffs front and rear, FWHs in the front, draw an axle/axles in the rear.

[-Scott-]

What about those little dolly type things (like that term? I'm pissed - can you tell ) that have their own wheels, but you just put one axle of the towed vehicle onto it.

Yes, I'm pissed.

Scott

[chimpboy]

what if your front knuckle castor was out, would the towed vehicle wander?

Im also wondering what happens if you blow diffs, seize things, cant tow it - what do you do then?

Well, that's sort of like what if you break your tandem trailer. Then you need to find another trailer, kind of the same.

Anyway, it's just an idea!

[chimpboy]

Noticed this on the vicroads website today:

Vehicles exempt from registration

Under certain circumstances and depending on the vehicle type, a vehicle may not need to be registered.
These include:

* agricultural equipment - vehicles without automotive power built to perform agricultural tasks off road such as, cultivating land, growing and harvesting crops and rearing livestock.
* trailers carrying harvester combs
* bulk field bins for holding grain
* bulk fruit bins
* trailers (other than trailers specifically built to carry a boat) that is not used in the course of trade and:
- weighs less than 200 kilograms empty
- is not wider than the vehicle towing it
- is not more than 3 metres long including the drawbar and any load on the trailer
* trailers that are being towed by a registered tow truck
* motor vehicles being towed on a highway


There are vehicles that are not considered to be motor vehicles by law and therefore are also not required to be registered.

Thoughts?

[RockyF75]

Noticed this on the vicroads website today:

Vehicles exempt from registration

Under certain circumstances and depending on the vehicle type, a vehicle may not need to be registered.
These include:

* agricultural equipment - vehicles without automotive power built to perform agricultural tasks off road such as, cultivating land, growing and harvesting crops and rearing livestock.
* trailers carrying harvester combs
* bulk field bins for holding grain
* bulk fruit bins
* trailers (other than trailers specifically built to carry a boat) that is not used in the course of trade and:
- weighs less than 200 kilograms empty
- is not wider than the vehicle towing it
- is not more than 3 metres long including the drawbar and any load on the trailer
* trailers that are being towed by a registered tow truck
* motor vehicles being towed on a highway


There are vehicles that are not considered to be motor vehicles by law and therefore are also not required to be registered.

Thoughts?

I would think that it means motorvehicles being towed ON a trailer... but if they aren't specific enough then thats their problem. Looks like quite a large loophole.