4BD1 to ZF adapters

Post by **1103.9TD** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:56 pm

Hey Bush65, I reckon you're correct on the flywheel housing, at least some are different, the guys that bought my standard Land Rover normally aspirated 4BD1 are having all sorts of problems trying to get one that'll fit the LT85/95 (I grabbed it when I changed my engine over). Maybe the ZF fits straight on the standard Isuzu truck housing??...

Post by **mitche27** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:51 pm

What's the word on the 4BD1 to ZF Auto mating? I've a 95 Disco that I'm looking to swap the V8i for a diesel. Is there a bellhousing available? How do you go about mounting the engine? I've been looking at a kit from MD Engineering in the UK that mates the 4JG2 to the ZF. Is anyone familiar w/ that kit?

Post by **Loanrangie** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:29 pm

mitche27 wrote:What's the word on the 4BD1 to ZF Auto mating? I've a 95 Disco that I'm looking to swap the V8i for a diesel. Is there a bellhousing available? How do you go about mounting the engine? I've been looking at a kit from MD Engineering in the UK that mates the 4JG2 to the ZF. Is anyone familiar w/ that kit?

Dont know of anyone that has used a kit here but the isuzu 4bj1t would be the preferred choice of engine - 2.8 tdi from isuzu/holden jackaroo, rodeo, iszuz trooper in some countries.

Post by **justinC** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:49 pm

Ok, Mitche27.

The ZF to 4BD1 didn't work well due to reliability. My 4BD1 puts out about 500Nm of torque, and it has trashed 3 'boxes. I have now gone to a LT95 manual, and I'm putting up with it because reliability is more important to me than having an autobox. (Only JUST, though)

If you have a Nat. aspirated engine, then try it, but I still maintain that the torsional vibration of these engines is the primary cause of failure.

I had pieces of clutch plate tag and a stripped lock-up clutch in the sump within 10,000km.

It is a pity really, because I couldn't recommend the drive experience highly enough. The combination of a torquey turbo diesel and auto is incomparable to a manual box.

I'm thinking of a TH700R4 or similar in the future, when I can afford the time and $$$$

JC

Post by **callum** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:29 am

what are your thoughts on trying a tf727 behind it?

rover one would bolt sraight up.

only trouble as i understand is that the rover ones didn't get such beefy internals as dodges, however there seems to be a huge aftermarket for them, with overdrive or gear splitters available. they dont come with lockup as standard, but i think it can be built in.

i think they are used behind cummins 6bt's in dodge trucks (could be far wrong here) which should put out a fair level of torque.

sound sgood on paper, but nobody seems to mention them much. are there issues in practice?

Website · Post by **Maggot4x4** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:10 am

callum wrote:what are your thoughts on trying a tf727 behind it?

rover one would bolt sraight up.

only trouble as i understand is that the rover ones didn't get such beefy internals as dodges, however there seems to be a huge aftermarket for them, with overdrive or gear splitters available. they dont come with lockup as standard, but i think it can be built in.

i think they are used behind cummins 6bt's in dodge trucks (could be far wrong here) which should put out a fair level of torque.

sound sgood on paper, but nobody seems to mention them much. are there issues in practice?

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... =ive+given

Post by **justinC** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:37 am

Yes Callum, I'd thought about this too, but I 1) Can't spend anymore $$$
2) can't spend anymore time, and 3) the manual box is already in.

I will say however that it will be an easy conversion back to auto if I get a rush of blood and decide to source a TF727...

JC

Post by **mopar rangie** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:41 pm

you can up the cluch pack on a 727 easy.that clutch pack is the same as what you get behind a 426 hemi or 440 wedge.you get all the parts and how to do it with the box rebuild kit.my old man just did one for his 360 thats in his rangie.just run the biggest cooler you can.

Post by **mickrangie** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:00 pm

727 might be strong and all but if its going to be a touring rig then 4 or more gears is what you want...

Post by **callum** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:42 am

Maggot4x4 wrote:
callum wrote:what are your thoughts on trying a tf727 behind it?

rover one would bolt sraight up.

only trouble as i understand is that the rover ones didn't get such beefy internals as dodges, however there seems to be a huge aftermarket for them, with overdrive or gear splitters available. they dont come with lockup as standard, but i think it can be built in.

i think they are used behind cummins 6bt's in dodge trucks (could be far wrong here) which should put out a fair level of torque.

sound sgood on paper, but nobody seems to mention them much. are there issues in practice?
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... =ive+given

having read that thread and (amazingly) not noticed that huge block of text and those pictures i feel rather stupid.

some good info there.

anyone got any pics of a rover 727 and lt230 be interested to see how they fit together. I'vre seen a few overdrives lie th e518 one, but they're pretty long.

justin, i thought youd acquired an allison trans? or who's was that pictured in the thread? sorry to hear your out of rover dollars although at least you're running again.

seems that a built 727 might be a good option for the 4bd1 with lockup and a fourth gear. i'd quite like a hsot of a manual shift kit on an auto as well, not sure how it would be to drive. i find sequentail sucks on mercedes, but maybe this kind of manual auto would be good.

callum

Post by **Loanrangie** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:51 am

A while ago there was a post from someone who had fitted a 3.9 to a 727 in a scout and apparently it flew.

Post by **justinC** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:21 pm

About the 3spd 727, or a LT95:

The gearing issue is sorted by fitting 35's.....I had to if I was going to run a 4 spd manual, or a 727 and 1.000:1 LT230 high range gears.

- Plus they will help a little in the rocks and mud.....

JC

Website · Post by **Maggot4x4** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:37 pm

justinC wrote:
The gearing issue is sorted by fitting 35's.....

- Plus they will help a little in mud.....

JC

Don't count on it, your fitting MTR's arn't you?

Post by **justinC** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:18 pm

Yup, but I want to hear myself think in the vehicle, otherwise I'd be fitting 10.5 35 ET2's Ash.

BTW, I see you had a good weekend, planning another??

JC

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:44 pm

justinC wrote:Yup, but I want to hear myself think in the vehicle, otherwise I'd be fitting 10.5 35 ET2's Ash.

BTW, I see you had a good weekend, planning another??

JC

Justin - what happened to the Allison auto idea - was there a problem?

Website · Post by **Maggot4x4** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:13 pm

justinC wrote:Yup, but I want to hear myself think in the vehicle, otherwise I'd be fitting 10.5 35 ET2's Ash.

BTW, I see you had a good weekend, planning another??

JC

When are you free? Flights are cheap.

Post by **justinC** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:21 pm

Air freight the Rangie?!!!!!!!!!!!

I won't go without my baby!!

JC

Post by **justinC** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:23 pm

ISUZUROVER wrote:
justinC wrote:Yup, but I want to hear myself think in the vehicle, otherwise I'd be fitting 10.5 35 ET2's Ash.

BTW, I see you had a good weekend, planning another??

JC
Justin - what happened to the Allison auto idea - was there a problem?

Hi Ben,
Yes the only problem came to when I rang up to actually order the box, and got them to measure the flange diameter, it was 12mm too large, so the flywheel housing on the 6BB1 IS different, and faced with the idea of adapting both the gearbox and the transfer, I stopped right there.

JC

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:46 pm

justinC wrote: Hi Ben,
Yes the only problem came to when I rang up to actually order the box, and got them to measure the flange diameter, it was 12mm too large, so the flywheel housing on the 6BB1 IS different, and faced with the idea of adapting both the gearbox and the transfer, I stopped right there.

JC

That is a shame, I am sure there were some 4cyl engines that came with autos - maybe only in the US though...

Post by **justinC** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:04 pm

Actually we had a 4cyl auto Isuzu in oz, but it is the later scitec type engine, the block is bigger and totally different, therefore not in the ballpark for me.

Pity eh?

JC

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:29 pm

Justin, have you seen this site???

www.isuzudieselswapper.com

Website · Post by **Maggot4x4** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:35 am

ISUZUROVER wrote:Justin, have you seen this site???

www.isuzudieselswapper.com

Transmissions: GM 200R4, 700R4, 4L60, 4L60E, NOTE: These transmissions are included in the GM vehicles above. They are also used for non GM conversions but require driveshaft modifications. Also, the "E" at the end of the transmission model indicates electronic shifting. All other models use a mechanical shifting mechinisism.

Post by **justinC** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:50 pm

ISUZUROVER wrote:Justin, have you seen this site???

www.isuzudieselswapper.com

I wish you hadn't shown me this Ben... ARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHH!!!!

Too late now, but I'll probably have to make up the unit and slip it in next year.

JC

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:05 pm

Go on Justin, you know you want to...

Post by **1103.9TD** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:24 pm

Do it, Do it !!!.

Post by **Loanrangie** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:10 pm

ISUZUROVER wrote:Go on Justin, you know you want to...

as i read jc's last post i was going to post that !

Post by **justinC** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:59 pm

ALLRIGHT!!! I will.

Just give me time to recover from the saga, and at least use the vehicle for a while first. I drove it this evening with the 4 spd manual, goes like anything, and will pull from 16rpm in 4th!!!( Slight exageration...)
3rd gear is a bit dodgy ATM from 4th to 3rd, I'll have to put synchros in next week.
But I still prefer the autobox.

JC

Website · Post by **Maggot4x4** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:17 pm

justinC wrote:ALLRIGHT!!! I will.

Just give me time to recover from the saga, and at least use the vehicle for a while first. I drove it this evening with the 4 spd manual, goes like anything, and will pull from 16rpm in 4th!!!( Slight exageration...)
3rd gear is a bit dodgy ATM from 4th to 3rd, I'll have to put synchros in next week.
But I still prefer the autobox.

JC

I will let you do mine first if you want as an engineering exercise, FOC of course

Post by **justinC** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:37 am

so you think I need any MORE engineering practice???

And my wife says that she thinks FOC means For Only Cash.

JC

Website · Post by **Maggot4x4** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:50 pm

justinC wrote:so you think I need any MORE engineering practice???

And my wife says that she thinks FOC means For Only Cash.

JC

Strange Rover wrote:
Brett S wrote:Strangerover - i thought there must be a reason for being so long but from the pics couldnt realy see. Could you tell me if you modded the existing output shaft or get new ones made up. Also if you could give me a price on the kit (shaft and adapter)
T700 has a stock output shaft, we just press and weld a new splined section into the rover input gear to mate up with the t700. Would do the adapter and modify your input gear for $600.

Sam

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