Using my ARB locker...

[Triangle]

I've got a Suzuki Jimny and tomorrow it's getting a air locker fitted.

I'm just wondering how it should be used...

Say I'm on my way up a loose but manageable hill until halfway up, I get to some ruts and the suspension gets to crossed up and can't go any further because of wheel slip.

Should I engage the locker at the bottom and go all the way up with it engaged or just engage it as I'm getting to the problem spot and disengage it once I'm past?

Can air lockers be engaged while travelling? Like Low range must be done under 5kph, or should I be completely stopped when I lock it in or take it out?

I'm sure this will be answered if i'm patient and read the instructions that will come with it...

[sierrajim]

Lockers don't likle being engaged when one wheel is spinning and the other is not.

[scotyz]

You can let them in and out at any speed any time without any bumps or bangs,you wont even hear them engage or disengage.We even locked one in and out doing a burnout on bitumen .If your heading up hill and it starts to slip you dont even have to back off just flick the switch and keep going.www.coffs4wdclub.com

[muppet_man67]

You can let them in and out at any speed any time without any bumps or bangs,you wont even hear them engage or disengage.We even locked one in and out doing a burnout on bitumen .If your heading up hill and it starts to slip you dont even have to back off just flick the switch and keep going.www.coffs4wdclub.com

eveything I have heard is that although this is possible, if you do it all the time it will substantially reduce the life of your locker.

[DamTriton]

You can let them in and out at any speed any time without any bumps or bangs,you wont even hear them engage or disengage.We even locked one in and out doing a burnout on bitumen .If your heading up hill and it starts to slip you dont even have to back off just flick the switch and keep going.www.coffs4wdclub.com

Was that before you read the instructions or after???

We even locked one in and out doing a burnout on bitumen .

As for this totally irresponsible statement from representitive of a 4WD club....

Triangle,

Sierrajim and Muppet_man67 are right. Treat it with care and a bit of thought and it will serve you well. Most ppl tend to activate the lockers just before they think they will need them (bottom/top of a hill) to reduce any potentially dangerous loss of control halfway up/down their planned route, disengaging the locker when clear to do so.

[ausyota]

If its in the rear just throw it on as soon as you hit the tracks and leave it on unless you have to a sharp Uturn or somthing.
If in the front just turn on as needed and just go steady when switching it on and you will be fine.

[bazzle]

Put it on BEFORE you need it. If you forget just lift the throttle as you engage and go again. This keeps the side gears turning the same speed.
When you release do the same again, just ease up on throttle to unload and drive on.

Bazzle

[Allan Mac]

I prefer to be 'safe rather than sorry'. I look at terrain & if not convinced can do it comfortably without locker, I engage it b4 I commence. Wusy, same may say, but if it makes it easier for me, & more importantly the vehicle, why not use it. That's what most of us got the locker for isnt?.

Whilst some say no probs engaging whilst on the move, if wheels spinnig at different speeds I would expect a nasty' crunching' sound

Again, better to be safe than sorry, they are not a cheap item.

Cheers

[scotyz]

Damika ive been running lockers for years behind v8s and never broke one.The set i have now has done three years extreme work without a miss so my reply to you is get fucked

[DamTriton]

Damika ive been running lockers for years behind v8s and never broke one.The set i have now has done three years extreme work without a miss so my reply to you is get *****

Another priceless quote from the President and member of the Drivers Awareness Comittee of the Coffs Harbour 4WD Club....

[460cixy]

if you lock it up while one wheel is spinning and the other is at a stand still you will break shit simple as that. if you moveing and both wheels are going the same speed you can lock it up or un lock it but not while the wheels are traveling at diffrant speeds the shock load will break an axel or the locker.

[batcho101]

i run one in the front of my hilux always engage it stationary or whitout any wheel spin but i do disengage it while driving still but then again i suppose both wheels are moving at the same speed so it shoudlnt really affect it

[cloughy]

Damika ive been running lockers for years behind v8s and never broke one.The set i have now has done three years extreme work without a miss so my reply to you is get *****

Another priceless quote from the President and member of the Drivers Awareness Comittee of the Coffs Harbour 4WD Club....

If your a novice the best method is "if in doubt, flick the switch" many will argue different theories, but if you have to ask i believe this is the best method

[GQ Bear]

delete

[GQ Bear]

What is it with know-it-all's??

Don't hammer scotyz just because you don't agree or don't know. The man is talking from experience. I engage mine when needed too, whatever the revs and terrain.
Although i think the burnout situation is a bit extreme, but was probably done as an experiment or test ("in the name of science").

watch a couple of 4wd comp videos with in-car cameras. They don't back off and wait 'till they're stuck before they engage their lockers.

Once you lose momentum and are bogged or hung up, a locker won't necessarily get you moving again - by then it's too late.

Damika ive been running lockers for years behind v8s and never broke one.The set i have now has done three years extreme work without a miss so my reply to you is get *****

Another priceless quote from the President and member of the Drivers Awareness Comittee of the Coffs Harbour 4WD Club....

If your a novice the best method is "if in doubt, flick the switch" many will argue different theories, but if you have to ask i believe this is the best method

this is sound advice

[scotyz]

.Thank you GQ bear all i was trying to do originally was give a example of how strong they are .Hopefully i will meet damika on a track one day and i can test his limits.

[bazzle]

http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/Lockers.htm

Bazzle

[460cixy]

"Air lockers can be engaged anytime they're needed. Just don't be spinning the tires." prety much what i said

[SiKiD_01]

although i dont have air lockers fitted to my car, i still have some mixed views on what others have said.

as for engaging the lockers on the move: if one wheel is spinning more than the other wheel, and the locker is engaged, there would be a lot of stress in the centre/locker and the axles. by doing so, the tyre which has more grip will either have to slow the other axle, tyre and engine down, or break its traction resulting in both tyres spinning. i guess its not as bad if it were in clay or mud, or loose dirt gravel. but if it were on rock, or bitumen, and one wheel has smoke, i doubt its healthy at all to lock the locker in.

but then again, even if you were on hard-ish flat ground, and presume it is safe to lock the locker in, how exactly do you know that the teeth on the locking ring are lined up exactly to go over the side gear teeth? they could be out, and if they were, the locker would make a side gear turn faster or slower so it slides into position. i just think about this because i have a lock-right locker in my car, and sometimes on flat road, one side gear rides up onto the locking piece, and the peaks of the teeth on the side gear and locker are touching. its this situation that creates the big bang when more force is added, where the cross pin ramps the locker out so hard the locker and side gear both fall into the valleys.

now, on the other hand, the air pressure to engage an air locker is not that i great, i'm assuming. please correct me if i'm wrong, i wont be a sore loser about it. so but not needing 100PSI to move the locking ring onto the side gear, it would seem acceptable to lock the locker in whenever anyone feels like it in any condition, as the locking ring will wait patiently until it can slide over the side gear. i do realise that this happens in a split second, but because of the air pressure not being too high, the locking ring has room to wait. the air only needs to hold the ring in place, as well as holding it against the unlocking springs. its not like the air needs to hold the whole car up off the ground, or hold the ring up vertically, against the unlocking springs and gravity.

i guess one good thing about the air locker is that it can be engaged whenever you need/want it. (as opposed to a manual mechanical locker, where you need to be real slow or stationary) picture trying to lock your hubs in if you were driving at 60km/h (thats if you could, but just try to imaine it)


if i had an air locker in the REAR, i would lock it as soon as i left the bitumen, or BEFORE trying anything that needs more than a pinky to hold the steering wheel straight.

if i had an air locker in the FRONT, i would be in heaven, but seriously, i would only lock it for mud, or for an extreme obstacle which requires none or little steering. although, the beauty of air lockers is, you can pssssht them any time.

[Zute]

Triangle, The locker will probably be the strongest part of your drive train. If you engage it while one wheel is spinning something MAY break.
All the lockers Ive used have been on heavy trucks and the manufacturers all say " If loss of traction, STOP than engage diff locks.
Why not have some fun with it. Try a hill unlocked. If you don't make it, reverse down, lock it than try again. Than you'll be the expert. Have fun.

[just cruizin']

Like most guys with lockers I like to try things unlocked first, there is a better sense of achievement when you do hard sections open, sets the level for the bloke behind. If you don't make it as Zute said reverse down, lock em in and drive it. Go the same line and you'll soon justify the money spent.

For a weekend social drivers who don't get a chance to drive anywhere near as much as we would like there's not too many better feelings then driving through that section where you get all crossed up with no hassels then watching your mates struggle. Just when you get out of your rig grab your snatch and when your mates get caught wave it at em. "HEY do you need this"

[dbongard]

although i dont have air lockers fitted to my car, i still have some mixed views on what others have said...

Hi guys,

I think what you need to keep in mind about your Air Locker is the amount of brute force that gets behind your locking gears when you hit the switch. Unlike ARB's competitors who try to nudge the locking gear across from the side with a few kilos of force, the 100PSI of air pressure in your Air Locker flows behind an annular seal that is over 4 square inches in surface area.

100 x 4 = 400 pounds [180kgs] of locking force!

Now picture the amount of torque these gears are already under when your right foot is on the floor. Imagine powering up a hill and then trying to change gears without using the clutch. It's not easy to get those teeth aligned. You probably wouldn't even get it in unless you backed off the throttle. Now this time power up that same hill and get your 180kg [400lb] mate to body slam into the gear shift. You probably would get the gears to mesh...but the question is, have you done a good thing by your transmission??? Well your differential is under at least 4 times the torque of your transmission gears (i.e., 4.00:1 R&P ratio).

Yes, ARB's locker DOES have the heavy mechanical force to lock you up when and where you decide, regardless of the circumstances, and that's why we have done so well with competition rock crawlers, drag racers, and extreme off-roaders (and 4WD club presidents) around the world. And we do continually improve our products by subjecting them to the abuse of crashing them in and out under high torque in our reliability lab.

But how many times would you be comfortable with changing gears without the clutch?

-daniel

ARB Kilsyth
dbongard@arb.com.au

[baddboy]

Or you could just get detroit lockers. You get the benefit all the time. They despite rumour are not hard to drive, do not clunk in and out around corners and are strong as. You can actually steer your vehicle up the hill rather than just plough along in a straight line. If you look at the two units on a bench I think you will find it obvious as to which is stronger.

[droopypete]

Or you could just get detroit lockers. You get the benefit all the time. They despite rumour are not hard to drive, do not clunk in and out around corners and are strong as. You can actually steer your vehicle up the hill rather than just plough along in a straight line. If you look at the two units on a bench I think you will find it obvious as to which is stronger.

and if you were to look at the 2 units on a bench I think you would find the air locker can not "clunk in and out around corners" or did you include the auto locker just as a distraction.

Peter.
PS, nice try at a hijack

[droopypete]

although i dont have air lockers fitted to my car, i still have some mixed views on what others have said...

Hi guys,

I think what you need to keep in mind about your Air Locker is the amount of brute force that gets behind your locking gears when you hit the switch. Unlike ARB's competitors who try to nudge the locking gear across from the side with a few kilos of force, the 100PSI of air pressure in your Air Locker flows behind an annular seal that is over 4 square inches in surface area.

100 x 4 = 400 pounds [180kgs] of locking force!

Now picture the amount of torque these gears are already under when your right foot is on the floor. Imagine powering up a hill and then trying to change gears without using the clutch. It's not easy to get those teeth aligned. You probably wouldn't even get it in unless you backed off the throttle. Now this time power up that same hill and get your 180kg [400lb] mate to body slam into the gear shift. You probably would get the gears to mesh...but the question is, have you done a good thing by your transmission??? Well your differential is under at least 4 times the torque of your transmission gears (i.e., 4.00:1 R&P ratio).

Yes, ARB's locker DOES have the heavy mechanical force to lock you up when and where you decide, regardless of the circumstances, and that's why we have done so well with competition rock crawlers, drag racers, and extreme off-roaders (and 4WD club presidents) around the world. And we do continually improve our products by subjecting them to the abuse of crashing them in and out under high torque in our reliability lab.

But how many times would you be comfortable with changing gears without the clutch?

-daniel

ARB Kilsyth
dbongard@arb.com.au

I think this may be a record,
lurking for 3 and a half years before making your first post
Peter.
PS, great first post Daniel, keep them coming

[Shorty40]

Had ARBs front and rear in the 40. Had a look at the track ahead and if I had any doubts I turned them on.

I paid for the damn things, I used the damn things. thats what they are for

I always stopped before engaging. A bit of mechanical sympathy goes a long way

[Ezookiel]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it seems like a good place to ask about the lockers in my car, which due to being their when I got the car, means I know very little about them.
I have the same style of Hi Roof Patrol that Mick. has, it came with two switches for lockers, but whilst one is an on/off switch, one is like an on/off/volume switch, which after the initial click when it's first turned, can then be turned a further 3/4 of a turn like your adjusting volume or the like??? I'm assuming this switch is there because that's all someone had at the time, but it's certainly weird.
Despite the one weird switch, these apparently come factory fitted according to the service manual, and the Aus. 4WD monthly, they are standard on this Ti model.
The service manual actually says you should never exceed something like 14Km/h with these engaged???? That seems pretty slow, but one would think that if you're needing lockers, you're hardly going to be going flat out. The other reason they appear to be some form of factory fitment is because there is actually a light in the instrument lights, next to the fuel/glowplug/oilwarning lights, that comes on and says "DIFF LOCK" when you engage them.
Now according to the 4WD Monthly, these are cable activated.
My question is there is a long delay before the DIFF LOCK light actually comes on, so I'd be very reluctant to wait till I need them, cause they don't seem to activate for quite some time.
And they take FOREVER to disengage, whether I'm stopped, moving, coasting, reversing, turning or straight, there is a very long time till they disengage, which at times where I'm about to get back onto the blacktop, has required me to kill some time just fiddling around till they disengage before I can proceed. I've tested that they actually are still engaged even after turning them off, because whilst that light is still on, you can hear the tyres really scrub if you turn tight circles, so I know they are still engaged.
Is this normal for cable activated??? factory fitted lockers?
Where would you go to get them checked serviced if it's not normal?

[dbongard]

Or you could just get detroit lockers. You get the benefit all the time. They despite rumour are not hard to drive, do not clunk in and out around corners and are strong as. You can actually steer your vehicle up the hill rather than just plough along in a straight line. If you look at the two units on a bench I think you will find it obvious as to which is stronger.

Maybe you want to defend Detroit/Lokka/Lockright/PowerTrax etc type of luchbox lockers on this thread instead:
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39688

Seems to be a difference of opinion.

[baddboy]

"Lunch Box" a little harsh?
I can only talk on what experience I have had with both Air lockers and detroits. Yes I have owned a vehicle with ARB air lockers and I know what I would choose, and have.
Obviously you have vast experience with both styles and have made your own mind up. I value your opinion and obviously vast mechanical expertise.

[dbongard]

"Lunch Box" a little harsh?
I can only talk on what experience I have had with both Air lockers and detroits. Yes I have owned a vehicle with ARB air lockers and I know what I would choose, and have.
Obviously you have vast experience with both styles and have made your own mind up. I value your opinion and obviously vast mechanical expertise.

Sorry, that wasn't intended as a shot.
I spend too much time talking to the Yanks and they all refer to them as "lunchbox lockers" (even the guys who run them) because they are a little dog gear set that you pack inside of an OE diff center like a luchbox.

I respect them for what they are.
They will get you up a pile of rocks...they just don't let you accurately steer a real obstacle (without panel damage) and they are a rude thing to do to the feel of a daily driver.