I've read teh recent tyre thread, and I'm still confused! I have been a very frustrated tyre buyer.
Vitey is a 94 model, and came with some excellent Desert Duelers. They lasted 127,000 kms (yes!), and were brilliant in deep snow.
I went tyre shopping and found that tyres with a decent snow pattern in my size (205 75R15) were scarce. Found some BFGs called Trails which had a nice widish tread and ordered them. was later advised they no longer existed but these Long Trails were even better. So I dropped in teh car...without viewing the tyres first.
unfortunately the Long Trails are woeful, on snow, on bitumen, in the wet, cornering, you name it. They're heavy, too.
So I wander the tyre places in anticipation of the things wearing out, but wherever I go, tyres in that size are road tyres. I don't want monster truck muddies, but I do need a useful wide tread for snow.
Some tyre guys have advised I can go a bit fatter to 215, and there are some BFGs available in that size and the tread looks ok (banana shaped lugs), but I'm a bit wary of BFG again.
Anyone know what size I can go to on the stock 15" wheels and stock suspension? Is 215 the maximum? Anyone know of a proper 4WD tyre still imported in Vitey's size?
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Vitara Tyres
Ant, Not all BFG's are as woeful as the Trail or Long Trail. I dunno why those two are bad, but. Go for the BFG All Terrain, or Mud Terrain. Excellent tyres, and on a Zook, should last forever. Look round at the tyres being run by other 4wds. Chances are, you will see a lot of BFG AT's and MT's. Ask the owners what they think of them.
Mud makes excellent toothpaste.
I do see BFGs on quite a few 4WDs, but I seldom see the Long Trails, so yeah, you are probably right.
I think the banana-lugs are the AT?
So far it's the only tyre with useful tread I can find that is legal for the Vitara. A few years back, there were plenty, but since the Sydney/Melbourne brigade have been buying up the small 4WDs, they seem to not want heavy (noisy?) tyres for them so the supply is drying up.
I first went looking for some more of those Duelers, but that size is now a road tyre. When I phoned Bridgestone australia to talk about it, they told me they no longer made my tyre, and when I mentioned the mileage I'd got out of mine the guy roared with laughter and said "now you know why we don't make them any more"!
huh!
I think the banana-lugs are the AT?
So far it's the only tyre with useful tread I can find that is legal for the Vitara. A few years back, there were plenty, but since the Sydney/Melbourne brigade have been buying up the small 4WDs, they seem to not want heavy (noisy?) tyres for them so the supply is drying up.
I first went looking for some more of those Duelers, but that size is now a road tyre. When I phoned Bridgestone australia to talk about it, they told me they no longer made my tyre, and when I mentioned the mileage I'd got out of mine the guy roared with laughter and said "now you know why we don't make them any more"!
huh!
Hi Ant,
Check out this site:
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/assets/p ... _ta_km.pdf
it's got all the possible sizes you can get the Mud Terrain in along with the Rim Size required to fit it "properly".
Cheers,
Check out this site:
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/assets/p ... _ta_km.pdf
it's got all the possible sizes you can get the Mud Terrain in along with the Rim Size required to fit it "properly".
Cheers,
DMA Founding Member #1 - Now Retired
Ant, Toyo also make some tyres to suit. The OPAT did well in a 4WD Monthly test on AT tyres (they didn't test them in mud though 
). A guy at work has them on his Sierra and reckons they are really good.
Have a look here:
http://www.toyo.com.au/RVPassenger.htm
). A guy at work has them on his Sierra and reckons they are really good.
Have a look here:
http://www.toyo.com.au/RVPassenger.htm
David
wow, all the 15" ones there are fat buggers! I do like some of those tread patterns though, more the classic thing i'm looking for.
I think I'd better go find some Toyo dealers. Father has had Toyos on his F150 over the years, I get the impression that they wear quickly? (Vitara vs F150 is flyweight vs heavyweight of course).
I think I'd better go find some Toyo dealers. Father has had Toyos on his F150 over the years, I get the impression that they wear quickly? (Vitara vs F150 is flyweight vs heavyweight of course).
I've been using it on the net since 96! If anyone ever flames you, they probably think you're me.
I've just been reading the older rims thread, I did ogle some Coopers a while back, the tread pattern was perfect, but in the small size, it seemed to me the tread gaps were a tad narrow. Might revisit Cooper just in case.
Whoever said 205 75R15 was a weird size wasn't kidding. Weird, and getting weirder.
I've just been reading the older rims thread, I did ogle some Coopers a while back, the tread pattern was perfect, but in the small size, it seemed to me the tread gaps were a tad narrow. Might revisit Cooper just in case.
Whoever said 205 75R15 was a weird size wasn't kidding. Weird, and getting weirder.
ant wrote:I've been using it on the net since 96! If anyone ever flames you, they probably think you're me.
sounds like mine. 'antt' was the very first email account i opened (at hotmail).....i wanted 'ant' but it was taken, so i ended up with another 't' on the end.
Last edited by antt on Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
murcod wrote:Ant, Toyo also make some tyres to suit. The OPAT did well in a 4WD Monthly test on AT tyres (they didn't test them in mud though
Have a look here:
http://www.toyo.com.au/RVPassenger.htm
I had they Toyo Open Country A/T's in 205/75/15 and they were heaps better both on and offroad than the crappy bridgestones it came with.
A bigger size would be nicer though you might start pushing your luck for legality. Vitaras need lots of ground clearance cos they dont have much to start with .....
Seems the size is pretty common to all the small 4bys - Diahatsu and Sierra.
Hey ant....... (not antt)
Welcome mate. You should work out who this is pretty quick. I gave you the link.
Welcome mate. You should work out who this is pretty quick. I gave you the link.
MY JEEP BUILD
v840 wrote: [Not a shot at Tonka] It's like saying, hell I've got two nuts, I may as well cut one of them off for the hell of it. I ain't using it.[/NAS@T] It's ridiculous!
Hi Ant...
I too had the same problem looking around for tyres... firstly, it's not a common tyre size at all. Sierras and Daihatsus and even Kias will use 205/70R15, not 205/75R15.
It is a lower profile than the 205/75R15 which are standard on both your Suzuki and mine. I was originally after some Bridgestone Duelers 698 AT which I have on the Terios only to find they didn't have the right size... and also had no luck with the Dunlop AT2's...
So looking for a tyre which offered a good mix between on-road and off-road performance I came up with 2 tyres.
Goodyear ATR
Cooper Discoverer AT
Looking back, I would've probably been better off with the Goodyears which are more agressive and therefore better off-road, but the Coopers are very good tyres and I am happy with them. In the wet particularly, they're excellent... but off-road I'm not so sure, as I haven't gone off-road with 4 Coopers on yet.
The treadpattern looks to be very good on snow though.
But I should warn you about something, maybe it's just my Grand Vitara (2001 Soft-top GV... 1.6 and therefore 15" rims etc...) but the speedo was slow on having installed the Coopers up front. This is because even though theoretically it should have the standard diameter, it doesn't. There is something like 13mm of tread depth which ends up increasing the diameter of the tyre. Sitting on 60kms/h on the speedo I'm actually doing 63-64, and at 95km/h I'm doing 99km/h... so it's always good to check before getting fined.
I expect the Coopers would outlast the Goodyears, but the goodyears are slightly more aggressive. If you do most of your driving on-road go for the Coopers for (silent) wet weather grip and acceptable off-roading capabilities... otherwise, go for the Goodyears...
But then again, it's up to the individual
I actually like the look of the "stepped" tread pattern on the Coopers.
Coopers:
Goodyears:
Personally I wouldn't go playing around with tyre sizes although most people would. My idea is that the less things on your car that can be pointed out (rightly or wrongly) as illegal or non-standard the better...
But that's just me...
Please remember, for insurance purposes, you have a minimum load and speed rating for any tyres you apply to your car. Im my case it's 94 load rating and S speed rating, anything lower may render your insurance void and your car unroadworthy
I too had the same problem looking around for tyres... firstly, it's not a common tyre size at all. Sierras and Daihatsus and even Kias will use 205/70R15, not 205/75R15.
It is a lower profile than the 205/75R15 which are standard on both your Suzuki and mine. I was originally after some Bridgestone Duelers 698 AT which I have on the Terios only to find they didn't have the right size... and also had no luck with the Dunlop AT2's...
So looking for a tyre which offered a good mix between on-road and off-road performance I came up with 2 tyres.
Goodyear ATR
Cooper Discoverer AT
Looking back, I would've probably been better off with the Goodyears which are more agressive and therefore better off-road, but the Coopers are very good tyres and I am happy with them. In the wet particularly, they're excellent... but off-road I'm not so sure, as I haven't gone off-road with 4 Coopers on yet.
The treadpattern looks to be very good on snow though.
But I should warn you about something, maybe it's just my Grand Vitara (2001 Soft-top GV... 1.6 and therefore 15" rims etc...) but the speedo was slow on having installed the Coopers up front. This is because even though theoretically it should have the standard diameter, it doesn't. There is something like 13mm of tread depth which ends up increasing the diameter of the tyre. Sitting on 60kms/h on the speedo I'm actually doing 63-64, and at 95km/h I'm doing 99km/h... so it's always good to check before getting fined.
I expect the Coopers would outlast the Goodyears, but the goodyears are slightly more aggressive. If you do most of your driving on-road go for the Coopers for (silent) wet weather grip and acceptable off-roading capabilities... otherwise, go for the Goodyears...
But then again, it's up to the individual
I actually like the look of the "stepped" tread pattern on the Coopers.
Coopers:
Goodyears:
Personally I wouldn't go playing around with tyre sizes although most people would. My idea is that the less things on your car that can be pointed out (rightly or wrongly) as illegal or non-standard the better...
But that's just me...
Please remember, for insurance purposes, you have a minimum load and speed rating for any tyres you apply to your car. Im my case it's 94 load rating and S speed rating, anything lower may render your insurance void and your car unroadworthy
Last edited by WaveCult on Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
skippy wrote:have you checked out the tyres that motorway are selling?
http://www.motorway-tyres.com.au/p227.htm
I considered Motorways as well... but firstly they don't have the size, and secondly, they're "reconstructed" tyres which typically don't last as long or provide as much grip particulary in the rain
They're biggest advantage is the price...
I also considered importing some Fedima Extreme tyres... at about $100 (plus transport and not sure about tax) which were reconstructed and had Yokohama Geolandar MT tread (very impressive to look at!
See below)... but everyone I've spoken to that had them complained about wet weather grip (or lack thereof) so I thought I'd play it safe...
But you have to admit they look awesome for a standard size tyre (205/75R15)!!!
WaveCult wrote:I too had the same problem looking around for tyres... firstly, it's not a common tyre size at all. Sierras and Daihatsus and even Kias will use 205/70R15, not 205/75R15.
Actually Ferozas are fitted with 225/70R15 standard- it's just as hard to find decent tyres in that size too!
David
murcod wrote:WaveCult wrote:I too had the same problem looking around for tyres... firstly, it's not a common tyre size at all. Sierras and Daihatsus and even Kias will use 205/70R15, not 205/75R15.
Actually Ferozas are fitted with 225/70R15 standard- it's just as hard to find decent tyres in that size too!
Sorry mate... I meant the Daihatsu Terios ...
(but it is a Daihatsu) They'd already stopped making/selling the Feroza when I started looking into 4x4's... although now that I think of it, it might've been a good option 2nd hand. Such is life... This is top info folks, thanks! It's nice to be able to talk about cars and tyres without snide sideways comments about "toy" 4WDs too.
I checked out those Coopers last time I got frustrated and went shopping (I should point out the BFGs aren't even worn yet!), I like the classic Cooper pattern, but in those ones you mentioned, I'm a bit iffey about that linear groove. In snow, you want more lateral tread, and I just felt that maybe the laterals weren't fat enough for snow. The Long Trails have zig-zag linear grooves, and they are tres` crap on snow. No grip, they will spin. They are crap in the rain, too, despite those grooves being for water dispersion? Well, they don't! I sometimes wonder if Vitey is too light for them? It's a 94 softtop with no back seats.
Like most people, I do more KMs on the bitumen, but the time I really rely on my tyres is in snow (I teach skiing). Plus I have a 1/2 km driveway which is pretty steep and rocky.
Maybe the changing wheel sizes of small 4WDs is also leading to the supply of decent small 4WD tyres drying up? The Grand Vs have a totally different tyre size, Ferozas are gone...
I'm really interested in those Toyos and I'm going to chase them up. I've seen the Coopers...just not sure about those grooves. Don't think I saw the goodyears last expedition, shall try again.
Interesting points about the tread depth interferring in the speedo! If driving in Victoria, that would be very relevant indeed.
Hiya MUFS and Maddog!
I checked out those Coopers last time I got frustrated and went shopping (I should point out the BFGs aren't even worn yet!), I like the classic Cooper pattern, but in those ones you mentioned, I'm a bit iffey about that linear groove. In snow, you want more lateral tread, and I just felt that maybe the laterals weren't fat enough for snow. The Long Trails have zig-zag linear grooves, and they are tres` crap on snow. No grip, they will spin. They are crap in the rain, too, despite those grooves being for water dispersion? Well, they don't! I sometimes wonder if Vitey is too light for them? It's a 94 softtop with no back seats.
Like most people, I do more KMs on the bitumen, but the time I really rely on my tyres is in snow (I teach skiing). Plus I have a 1/2 km driveway which is pretty steep and rocky.
Maybe the changing wheel sizes of small 4WDs is also leading to the supply of decent small 4WD tyres drying up? The Grand Vs have a totally different tyre size, Ferozas are gone...
I'm really interested in those Toyos and I'm going to chase them up. I've seen the Coopers...just not sure about those grooves. Don't think I saw the goodyears last expedition, shall try again.
Interesting points about the tread depth interferring in the speedo! If driving in Victoria, that would be very relevant indeed.
Hiya MUFS and Maddog!
Be careful of the Wrangler AT- one of the guys on the Daihatsu forum has got them on his Feroza and reckons they are dangerous in the wet.
Let us know what you get and what you think of them. I need to get some more serious rubber soon- Desert Dueller D682's suck off road!
Was looking at Wrangler MTR's but can't legally fit them. 
The Toyo's are looking promising as they come in so many sizes that I can legally fit 225/70, 235/70, 225/75..... If you want I'll dig up the article where they were tested against other AT tyres and Email it to you.
Let us know what you get and what you think of them. I need to get some more serious rubber soon- Desert Dueller D682's suck off road!
Was looking at Wrangler MTR's but can't legally fit them.
The Toyo's are looking promising as they come in so many sizes that I can legally fit 225/70, 235/70, 225/75..... If you want I'll dig up the article where they were tested against other AT tyres and Email it to you.
David
murcod wrote:Be careful of the Wrangler AT- one of the guys on the Daihatsu forum has got them on his Feroza and reckons they are dangerous in the wet.
...
The Toyo's are looking promising as they come in so many sizes that I can legally fit 225/70, 235/70, 225/75..... If you want I'll dig up the article where they were tested against other AT tyres and Email it to you.
The Bridgestone 682's are H/T's no? I had a set of H/Ts (687 I think) on the Terios and they were shocking on light mud and very easily cut up by rocks (the sidewalls are very vulnerable)!
I don't have fond memories of my H/Ts... they made me have to reverse some 200m down a steep incline, in the rain, in the middle of the night (no city lights either so visibility was close to zero with the standard reverse light!), alone, holding onto the handbrake for dear life!!! (ABS kicked in, wouldn't let me brake on the descent!)
Ok, mum asked me to do the shopping, not to go 4-wheeling, but I couldn't resist!
So after that I had a long hard think about it, looked also at the damage the tyres had endured in their first 5000kms and decided to upgrade. Got Bridgestone AT 693. Excellent all-rounder! Great on road, great in wet, great off-road (but that was for a Terios... 205/70R15)
As for the Wranglers, there are several AT models (AT, ATR, ATS). I've seen a Pajero on 31" Wrangler ATS (deflated to 25 PSI I think) have heaps of trouble up a grassy ramp where I had absolutely no trouble with my standard Suzuki Grand Vitara (1.6lt, SWB, soft-top, auto) on Coopers. So in that respect, I have to agree with you murcod... but the ATRs seem different and more off-road oriented then either the AT or ATS... (or at least they're marketed in that sense)
Anyone had any experience with the ATR's yet? They're supposed to be a reasonably new tyre... with "trinium technology"
(basically the rubber is of a silica compound or something which provides less resistence, less wear and greater grip... or so I'm told)
Back on the Coopers, just to add one thing, the "wavey" grooves on the tread blocks actually have the full depth of the tread, so as the tyre makes contact they open up allowing the tread to dig in. Does it work? Don't know, ain't been to the snow with them yet...
As for the Toyo's, I got my tyres at Tyre Power in Moorabbin and they had Toyo's there as well, but the guy that looked after me dissuaded me from them saying they were inferior on-road and off, and would never last as long. Again, whether this is true or not, I don't know...
Hey if you get the Toyo's... let us know how they go!
Come to think of it, there should really be a test-drive program for 4x4 tyres shouldn't there?
Cheers,
Luis
PS - Yes, I did enjoy colouring that in
Yep, 682's are H/T tyres. Great for having fun in the mud where there's nothing to hit and it doesn't matter when you stop sliding.
There's not much in the way of 4WD tracks close to Adelaide so I've just been living with them (....and making sure I have a winch equipped back up vehicle when venturing off road)
There's not much in the way of 4WD tracks close to Adelaide so I've just been living with them (....and making sure I have a winch equipped back up vehicle when venturing off road
)David
The Duelers that came with Vitey in 94 were called 682s, but when I went shopping again for new tyres, the 682 had become a pretend-4WD tyre, for city people who find knobbly tyres upsetting. Same size, but the tread was a waste of time.
The original tyre (I still have one, it's the spare) had excellent tread. Sort of square lugs looking like 3 slipped dice. they were superb in snow and on the road, wet or dry. Good strong sidewalls, they didn't bag in fast cornering and I never had a puncture or a leak. And they lasted 127,000 kms.
They actually enabled Vitey to drive on several feet of soft snow which had the bigger 4WDs floundering. I didn't realise just how good they were until I got the Goodrichs.
The original tyre (I still have one, it's the spare) had excellent tread. Sort of square lugs looking like 3 slipped dice. they were superb in snow and on the road, wet or dry. Good strong sidewalls, they didn't bag in fast cornering and I never had a puncture or a leak. And they lasted 127,000 kms.
They actually enabled Vitey to drive on several feet of soft snow which had the bigger 4WDs floundering. I didn't realise just how good they were until I got the Goodrichs.
They sound like mine. I would class them as definite soft roader tyre though. A search on the internet revealed a few places still listed them as being available, but Bridgestone Aust don't list them online?
They were on it when I bought the Feroza and are getting low on tread now. They seem good in the dry and OK in the wet onroad, but I haven't had any other tyres on it to compare them to. I hope my next tyres aren't worse in the wet!
I've had a couple of scary experiences with them on loose gravel roads- luckily there was nobody coming the other way as I was sliding around the corners!
They were on it when I bought the Feroza and are getting low on tread now. They seem good in the dry and OK in the wet onroad, but I haven't had any other tyres on it to compare them to. I hope my next tyres aren't worse in the wet!
I've had a couple of scary experiences with them on loose gravel roads- luckily there was nobody coming the other way as I was sliding around the corners!
David
What, you've got Dueler 682s with that proper nice chunky tread?! where did you get them????
When I went shopping for tyres a few years back, bridgestone said they didn't make them any more and the 682 was this crummy road tyre now.
I have one (which i've never used, the spare). If I could find 3 more I'd be a very happy camper. They're the yardstick for excellent snow tyres!
When I went shopping for tyres a few years back, bridgestone said they didn't make them any more and the 682 was this crummy road tyre now.
I have one (which i've never used, the spare). If I could find 3 more I'd be a very happy camper. They're the yardstick for excellent snow tyres!
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