falcon motor

[rockrover]

i have looked into a v8 and now a six cyl and need a couple of qs answerd and advice i have heard the falcon 6 would be a good swap as they are cheaper and with a cam produce some awesome figures only queary i have is will the six hav enuff low down torque to crawl as my dad said cos they have a short stroke it wont make good low down torque i can pic up a el falcon 6 complete ready to run for 950 and and an adaptor kit 1100 then a bit work
Chers Bourkey

[unwritten]

I had an injected 250 crossflow in my FJ40 and it went pretty good (wasn't standard though). About the torque factor, all that comes down to is gearing. I haven't had anything to do with the EL engine so I can't have an opinion. If you belive it would be a good swap I say, "Go for it".

[chimpboy]

I think you will find the EL motor very satisfactory.

I got good fun out of an EF, still in a falcon, not a fourby, but very toey anyway.

[mattstar]

I think the new xr6turbo motors are the same block, and the turbo 6 is more torque then it's big bro xr8, show's potential there!? food for thought

[bru21]

I would avoid an au model - no torque what so ever - we had one in a manual and the dirty old ea also manual we had side by side shat all over ot torque wise. topend was a different story. i think the au is an auto motor and when coupled to a manual box is usless. we had it back to ford several times and each time they found nothing wrong. that said the ea-eb are strond motors and so much smoother than anything else on offer. the el is better than the ef i think it has more main bearings etc - look up ford forums

cheers bru

[cooter]

they have a big stroke and all the torque u need

[rockrover]

cheers for all ur help will have a build up thread wen the time comes i have to choppy chop first then ill be trans planting the ford engine then some gq axels
thanx Shaun

[cloughy]

i think the au is an auto motor and when coupled to a manual box is usless.

cheers bru

Keh???? Auto motor???

Falcon six (4l) is a top conversion, plenty off torque, if you were min vic i've got an EL XR6 4l sitting on my shed floor

[bru21]

said au is torqueless and the others are perfect. ea, eb ed, el ef whetever are sweet. But i am only going on personal experiance and we have only had 2 ea's(1 fairmont one manual std), and ebfairmont, 2 ef's, an el, au1fairmont,au2(manual), and now my baxr6 ute. So I love fords and the smooth power holden cannot match

[stumpyGQ]

if you want a six and you want torque why not a holden v6? Much smaller (shorter) engine, lighter and compact. Maybe not as good top end but great low end torque...

[Beastmavster]

Why not a V6 commodore? Less cubes, less torque, less power, less reliability.


The we have the fact that the engine bay, suspensions and steering were all set up for an inline 6.


Pretty simple descision I would have thought. Faclon 6 all the way.

[chimpboy]

if you want a six and you want torque why not a holden v6? Much smaller (shorter) engine, lighter and compact. Maybe not as good top end but great low end torque...

What is with this? The commo v6 has crap low-end torque, and yet everyone comes out with "great low end torque" when they talk about them. I find it really odd that people have this totally wrong idea about how the falcon and commodore motors compare because the buick/commo motor is the one with the poor low-end performance, not the falcon.

This means that if you have the space, the falcon straight six is far and away the better choice for a 4WD or heavier vehicle where the low-rev performance is more important.

To quote from a thread in general tech:

Go the V6 - cheap as chips. I would think that the low down torque of the V6 would be equal or better than an old school 302/308.

Yeah, if "equal or better" means half as good.

That commo v6 is not a total dud, but geez it seems to be the most overrated engine in the country. On a good day it will make 300Nm of torque at 3600rpm. That is not "low down torque", that is an engine that needs to rev its tits off before it's any good.

A 308 will get you 340Nm at 2400 rpm. A 350 chev will get you 400Nm at 2800 rpm. An EF Falcon 6 (not even an XR6) will get you 357Nm at 3000rpm and can be gotten just as cheap as a commodore motor.

Then consider the older Ford sixes: 295Nm at 1800 rpm, 305Nm at 2000 rpm, 310Nm at 2300 rpm depending on the model.

In other words an ooooold falcon crossflow straight six will get you, literally, the same torque at 1800 rpm as a commo v6 will get you at 3600 rpm, ie double the engine speed.

I know there are places that specialise in installing commo V6 motors into 4WDs, even some that don't offer any other motor. I can only assume this is because the V6 is more compact, because it makes no sense from a performance standpoint.

[Patchy]

I think the new xr6turbo motors are the same block, and the turbo 6 is more torque then it's big bro xr8, show's potential there!? food for thought

the BA/BF falcon motor is completly different to an el

[cloughy]

I think the new xr6turbo motors are the same block, and the turbo 6 is more torque then it's big bro xr8, show's potential there!? food for thought

the BA/BF falcon motor is completly different to an el

You mean the head is different, in N/A form

[rockrover]

i rang dellow automotive today and they dont do a kit for the el as yet to fit my patrol so seeing as tho i need to panel beat it and paint it ill just use the L28 for now if any 1 knows who makes them please let me know
Cheers Bourkey

[Beastmavster]

The dellow information suggests the EA and all later models use the same adaptor kit. Did you call them to be tod they dont do it or you just saw EA and not EL and assumed it wouldnt fit?

[rockrover]

yeah i rang them but i tlked to sum 1 who sounded like he had no idea so ill ring again and have a yarn to some1 else id love to get 1 tho be a nice conversion i think
Cheers Bourkey

[Beastmavster]

If not, you havent actually got the engine... so find out which engines you can and cant use then go shopping.


EBII onwards are great motors. Can't say I'd recommend an EA motor.


$950 complete for an EL motor and bits is not especially cheap - you can pick up a whole car on gas for that sort of price thats had a prang or got a dead transmission.

[chimpboy]

yeah i rang them but i tlked to sum 1 who sounded like he had no idea so ill ring again and have a yarn to some1 else id love to get 1 tho be a nice conversion i think
Cheers Bourkey

Ask for Geoff himself, or send them an email and you will probably get a clearer answer.

[GQ4.8coilcab]

Why not a V6 commodore? Less cubes, less torque, less power, less reliability.


The we have the fact that the engine bay, suspensions and steering were all set up for an inline 6.


Pretty simple descision I would have thought. Faclon 6 all the way.

there is "unwritten"'s shorty under members with a 3.8 now
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=85575

[badger]

id say got the ford motor. mate of a mate has a mk wagon with one it goes better than 4.2 gq's
the only commo 6 to even make some excuse for tourque is the earlier non ecotech motors eg vnII or vp and id say put one in a lux any day but in a patrol dont waste the effort when the ford motor is cheaper and definatly the better option

[unwritten]

Just want to know a few things... Who are these people who say the ecotec hasn't any torque? Have they done the conversion before? If so where were they when I wanted information about the conversion? On a serious note now, the falcon 6 does make sense considering it would be a better fit (similiar dimensions than that of the original engine) and most probably more torque (nothing forced induction couldn't fix ) I give they young fella the big and post plenty of pics on any conversion he decides on. Also if they dont make the adapter for it... find the boys who could knock one up for you. Going to that extent is sometimes worth it.

[rockrover]

im deffinatly goin to run the falcon six has such a nice note and more torgue then the v6 bit more bang for buck also and i just had a look at the catalogue and it says from eb11 on so ill c what year they make it to then get the best to suit my needs buit by the looks of it the older the engine the betta the torque but to be fair i dont want an eb mainly because most if not all of them have too many ks on them these days too old so i wanted to go a lil younger if possible will let u know what i find out on monday when i ring dellows again
Cheers Bourkey

[Beastmavster]

Not necessarily "better" with older. The later ones are more linear with torque. You may find they put out about the same torque at 1800 rpm as the old crossflow, but then dont drop off as much.


If you can find a couple of torque curve graphs, that might help you out in your decision.

I'd still be aiming to get somewhere around the EF-EL if you can.



IN support of the holden people, earlier holden 6's had very similar torque curves to early falcon 6's, with peak torque nice and low around the 1800-2200 rpm. I remember a VK Calais auto I had could break traction instantly anywhere anytime in the wet by planting the boot hard.


While a VR might eventually do the same, its plant boot and wait for revs to get up enough until it spins. With the extra gear it should be easier to break traction in the VR, not harder.

Thats the big difference we're talking about.

[rockrover]

yeah the older holden 6s because they used the inline system then holden had to be fancy and bring in the v6 and lost all the torque they 1nce had...go the fords!

[Vulcanised]

i have the ecotech series II in my Statesman..... it only just matches the fords of the same era.... but diff gearing says a lot too.... i can do 160kph and the tacho still hasn't reached 2,800 rpm If i redline it in 2nd gear it goes to 130kph... which isn't too bad. And the ecotech V6 goes to redline very quickly. Not as nicely as the alloytech engines, they are a SWEET motor Took a VE Commondoor for a test drive.... very nice!!

Mate, go with what you want for the conversion.... i'm sure a stack of people can back their argument up with statistics, or past experience..... in the end, it's what you want, not what others think you oughta have

[bru21]

i love the falcon slash commo v6 debate. a falcon has its cylinders in line making power in a smoother more even pattern nearly always having a cylinder under power, (hence torque) where as a commo has a massive void in power between powerstrokes. the only reason there are v motors is for space(and neatness) - that is all.

commos have a far lower first gear making them seem quicker off the mark

[rockrover]

i have a straight 8 olds mobile engine up at my mums place if there was room think of the torque its freakin massive bout a foot and a half wide and 4-5 foot long wat a mad engine:P

[Beastmavster]

mmmm... straight 8.

[badger]

Just want to know a few things... Who are these people who say the ecotec hasn't any torque? Have they done the conversion before? If so where were they when I wanted information about the conversion?

never done the conversion. but did have a bit of an obsession with commodores when i was younger and they were all i could afford

alot of people say the ecotech has more tourque and power so its better
but if they actually looked at dyno sheets they would see the early motor makes almost the same tourque at low revs as it does higher ap where it gets peak tourque. where as the ecotech needs to be reved to make tourque............. not as good in a 4by especially not for the sake of 20kw and 10nm