[quote="XTREME MMM"]
5:- Scoring will be carried out by the Stage Manager & his assistanttogether
dave
State manager of what ,is this bloke going to score the same way as one sided Pete . Its your reputation on the line not mine But if it is scored any thing like the week end There won,t be an event
PETE
Next time you run an event just send them the trophe in the mail .It will save them $$ wear and tear on 4x4s People will turn up to an event to compete ,come backif it,s good but shaft them (and not behind the shower block) they won,t be back A gate was worth 10 points alot of gates were flattened ,and no points recorded There is only one word for this ___________ you work it out PETE
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XRCC Rules for 2003
Moderator: evanstaniland
bobtail,
I think that you have missed the point of this first competition. This was a competition that was run to establish a format for a series thats going to be held next year. This first competition was not absolutely perfect. The next stage of the competition (round zero) wont be absolutely perfect either. But the stage after that (XRCC - Round One) will be, and im sure of that.
If you want to comment on the competition, by all means complain, but say something constructive. Otherwise you arnt helping anyone and if this thing is going to be as big as success as I hope then it needs help and support from everyone.
This first comp run by tjpete was a great start for rockcrawling in aust.
Sam
I think that you have missed the point of this first competition. This was a competition that was run to establish a format for a series thats going to be held next year. This first competition was not absolutely perfect. The next stage of the competition (round zero) wont be absolutely perfect either. But the stage after that (XRCC - Round One) will be, and im sure of that.
If you want to comment on the competition, by all means complain, but say something constructive. Otherwise you arnt helping anyone and if this thing is going to be as big as success as I hope then it needs help and support from everyone.
This first comp run by tjpete was a great start for rockcrawling in aust.
Sam
Glen, thats what i thought, Why do we need a time limit when you get penilised for stoping.
Working on that senario a car should complete the course fairly quickly if they only stop once or twice.
HOWEVER,
a rig could be stuck still moving (back and forward) but with out a time limit they could sit there all day until they free themself.
It also makes it more exciting for the spectators, you now the driver only has 2 minutes left but he needs to complete 4 more gates, than thats going to make for some exciting finishes.
I know this is rock CRAWLING but someone could just go to slow, complete it clean without stopping, but its taken them half an hour.(PRETTY BORING IF YOU ASK ME)
No time limit could also leave it open for foul play.
Eg, theres only an hour before loss of light but theres still four cars to run,
lets make it harder for them and make them run in the dark.(we'll take our time)
I dont think time was a real problem at XRCC.
I think we need time limits to keep it exciting for us and the spectators.
Working on that senario a car should complete the course fairly quickly if they only stop once or twice.
HOWEVER,
a rig could be stuck still moving (back and forward) but with out a time limit they could sit there all day until they free themself.
It also makes it more exciting for the spectators, you now the driver only has 2 minutes left but he needs to complete 4 more gates, than thats going to make for some exciting finishes.
I know this is rock CRAWLING but someone could just go to slow, complete it clean without stopping, but its taken them half an hour.(PRETTY BORING IF YOU ASK ME)
No time limit could also leave it open for foul play.
Eg, theres only an hour before loss of light but theres still four cars to run,
lets make it harder for them and make them run in the dark.(we'll take our time)
I dont think time was a real problem at XRCC.
I think we need time limits to keep it exciting for us and the spectators.
Yes but your leaving it up yo one person, now you going to have a situation arise where you dnf'd one team in 10 minutes because they were stuck on a rock however another taem just ran the track in 15 minutes and completed it.
Why should the team stuck on the rock not be allowed the same time as that other car.
Also what happens if the first car of the day has a blinder of a run and does it in 3 minutes the next car in gets stuck do you dnf them if they go past 3 minutes.
Now i know commonsense would come in to it but i think you would leave it open to a lot of protest's.
eg. they got stuck on the same rock we did and you dnf'd us in 8 min but you dfn'd them in 9 you gave them the extra minute why? we could have free'ed ourselves in that extra minute.
I think no time limit leaves it open to too much interpritation.
And also the Crowd want to know how long that car has left so they can get behind there team and gee them up.
Why should the team stuck on the rock not be allowed the same time as that other car.
Also what happens if the first car of the day has a blinder of a run and does it in 3 minutes the next car in gets stuck do you dnf them if they go past 3 minutes.
Now i know commonsense would come in to it but i think you would leave it open to a lot of protest's.
eg. they got stuck on the same rock we did and you dnf'd us in 8 min but you dfn'd them in 9 you gave them the extra minute why? we could have free'ed ourselves in that extra minute.
I think no time limit leaves it open to too much interpritation.
And also the Crowd want to know how long that car has left so they can get behind there team and gee them up.
yes the US comps mostly have dnf times. my point is this not v8 super cars. if we put a ime limit on it must be reasonable time, say time to complete with an extra 15 or 20 % added. the tacks must be driven by organizers prior to event for this to happen. in any case the rules could infact be set with claues of 3 or so attempts before having to move on to the next gate. 3 is just number this would need to be debated by all competitors.
I for one will not spend my corporate dollars on something I veiw as a comp for the rich only. TJ PETE stated that this comp is for the averige person. not likely.
I for one will not spend my corporate dollars on something I veiw as a comp for the rich only. TJ PETE stated that this comp is for the averige person. not likely.
Guys your blowing all this out of context.
Yes we need time limits.
Yes i agree someone needs to drive the tracks before.
No there should not be a limit on how many attempts someone has on an obsticle ( if they want to sit there and waste there time then let them)
Was there that much wrong with XRCC. Yes a lot of us thought the tracks were to hard and the gates were to tight but thats all part of the sport.(and did we drive them,yes)
We want something HARDCORE and when someone goes to the effort of setting it up everyone thinks they can do it better.
Yes there was some issues with scoring and how the rules were understood but that was the whole reason for running round ZERO (was it not)
I didn't go there to win i went there to have some fun and try and increase the following of ROCK CRAWLING.
What was there to win some little plastic trophies.
Yes the next rounds may have prises but who cares lets just get behind an event that we all wanted.
Yes we need time limits.
Yes i agree someone needs to drive the tracks before.
No there should not be a limit on how many attempts someone has on an obsticle ( if they want to sit there and waste there time then let them)
Was there that much wrong with XRCC. Yes a lot of us thought the tracks were to hard and the gates were to tight but thats all part of the sport.(and did we drive them,yes)
We want something HARDCORE and when someone goes to the effort of setting it up everyone thinks they can do it better.
Yes there was some issues with scoring and how the rules were understood but that was the whole reason for running round ZERO (was it not)
I didn't go there to win i went there to have some fun and try and increase the following of ROCK CRAWLING.
What was there to win some little plastic trophies.
Yes the next rounds may have prises but who cares lets just get behind an event that we all wanted.
Ok all Im going to say my 2 cents worth and here it comes.
Im sick of the BS, Since XRCC I have herd, Its to hard, gates to close, time to short, tracks to tight ect ect,
1/ I drove a freeway for near on 40 hours to get to XRCC, I dont want a freeway when I get there.
2/ We are on the cutting edge of Australian rock crawling, so make it hard and make a time limit thats tight.
3/ TJ Pete had a good idea, that you can bypass gates, loose points but maybe gain points. Makes you think.
4/ Make it tight, Shyt yer, the best trophy I got at XRCC were the dents, and no im not giving back the 2nd place trophy.
5/ It dosnt matter how good an event was, there is always people that complain.
6/ GO HARD OR GO HOME.
Ok all I have had my say, and think of me what you want, but im in it till the end and I think Rock Crawling is the next big thing in OZ for motor sport, so keep it hard and keep it professional, and remember that people are paying $$ to see a show. Spectators = Sponsers=$$$$$$$
Im sick of the BS, Since XRCC I have herd, Its to hard, gates to close, time to short, tracks to tight ect ect,
1/ I drove a freeway for near on 40 hours to get to XRCC, I dont want a freeway when I get there.
2/ We are on the cutting edge of Australian rock crawling, so make it hard and make a time limit thats tight.
3/ TJ Pete had a good idea, that you can bypass gates, loose points but maybe gain points. Makes you think.
4/ Make it tight, Shyt yer, the best trophy I got at XRCC were the dents, and no im not giving back the 2nd place trophy.
5/ It dosnt matter how good an event was, there is always people that complain.
6/ GO HARD OR GO HOME.
Ok all I have had my say, and think of me what you want, but im in it till the end and I think Rock Crawling is the next big thing in OZ for motor sport, so keep it hard and keep it professional, and remember that people are paying $$ to see a show. Spectators = Sponsers=$$$$$$$
XRCC RULES 2003
OK everyone lets step back abit. all the hard work Pete has done to get XRCC going has made my job as the organizer of this event a hell of a lot easier to carry on with. There was no Rock Crawling done in Qld. until Pete had the guts to push it, so as the saying goes don`t put SHI__ on anyone if your not game to run it yourself. To run an event is very hard and sometimes I feel after doing an XTREME EVENT why do I do it. The answer is I get a lot of satisfaction running events, & I also have a lot of top helpers who put their time out to make my events work, MANY THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!! So just remember we are not playing for sheep stations, we are out the for the EVENT.So lets work together & remember there is only 1 BOSS at the XRCC that is MMM! So if you want to bag someone make it me, after all I should have been at Round Zero,but due to other commitments I was not able to attend.
As Cheesie said we don`t want a highway. The XRCC will be to ROCK CRAWLERS as the XTREME WINCH CHALLENGE is to the WINCH GUYS the toughest & hardest EVENTS around.
I have just finished today the 2003 Xtreme Winch Challenge Rules. I have already started on the new XRCC Rules so lets just back of a bit and wait & see what I will come up with.
Don`t forget I will be having a bit of a practice day on Sunday the 2nd. Feburary at Mountain Park. I will be there around lunch time on the Saturday and I will be based at Treaka Terrace, look out for the van. We will be doing a section under my new XRCC Rules, Then we can see if they need to be changed or modified. By doing this it will make Round 1 a lot easier to run.
As I have stated before," Thank you Pete for all the hard yards you have put in doing Round Zero and all the work you have done on getting XRCC web site up & running."
All for now and I hope Santa brings you a big rock for Christmas. Take it easy out there & see all in Feburary.
MMM
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
Hey great debate! Although I'd only ever be a spectator, so from a spectators point of view I'll say I'd highly agree having a time limit on the event. I also think that if this event is going to take off as a national event a few things need to happen. Mainly I think ALL rigs would have to be limited to a certain level. Much like a NASCAR race in the states. The rigs in each class should be equal so it come comes down to driver skill. As a spectator I certainly wouldn't want to go to a comp where Peter A with his yellow shorty wins every year. After event 3 or 4 I wouldn't bother going anymore. That was just an example!
The spectators will make or break this event, so in my opinion it must cater more towards the spectators than towards the drivers. Sad fact but true. Like someone else said MORE SPECTATORS=MORE SPONSORS=MORE $$$=MORE SPECTATORS and so on and so on...
And if this happens then the drivers will be rewarded more and more when they win. In the end it's all going to be money driven like the whole world is. There will come a point that even the drivers who love the sport so much won't bother. They won't spend $100,000 or whatever the figure may be to build a truck, travel all over the country spending cash out of their own pocket, just to win a $100 trophy or another free winch from WARN. Eventually it will take a winning prize of $10,000 just to draw enough entrants to even hold the event. But that's WAY into the future.
So before planning to make it a national comp, keep it in QLD and see if it grows first. Which I am sure this is the plan. Then expand. I am 99% certain that I'll never be able to attend an XRCC event here in WA within the next 10 years. Because would any of you guys that competed spend the time and money to bring your rig over to WA, or SA, or the NT or Tassie to compete? Not likely I say! For most of us wheelin won't pay the mortage or feed the kids. So until it does it'll be limited to QLD.
You will also need to change the track between events. After a couple of rounds in the same place the drivers and spotters will know what line to take. And then it will again become boring for the spectator. Has anyone thought of that?
This is all just my opinion and I'll just say you are all lucky as hell to have the terrain and people willing to run these events for you. Just get out there and support it so the rest of us in the "other" areas of the country might one day have the chance to partake or spectate such an event!
The spectators will make or break this event, so in my opinion it must cater more towards the spectators than towards the drivers. Sad fact but true. Like someone else said MORE SPECTATORS=MORE SPONSORS=MORE $$$=MORE SPECTATORS and so on and so on...
And if this happens then the drivers will be rewarded more and more when they win. In the end it's all going to be money driven like the whole world is. There will come a point that even the drivers who love the sport so much won't bother. They won't spend $100,000 or whatever the figure may be to build a truck, travel all over the country spending cash out of their own pocket, just to win a $100 trophy or another free winch from WARN. Eventually it will take a winning prize of $10,000 just to draw enough entrants to even hold the event. But that's WAY into the future.
So before planning to make it a national comp, keep it in QLD and see if it grows first. Which I am sure this is the plan. Then expand. I am 99% certain that I'll never be able to attend an XRCC event here in WA within the next 10 years. Because would any of you guys that competed spend the time and money to bring your rig over to WA, or SA, or the NT or Tassie to compete? Not likely I say! For most of us wheelin won't pay the mortage or feed the kids. So until it does it'll be limited to QLD.
You will also need to change the track between events. After a couple of rounds in the same place the drivers and spotters will know what line to take. And then it will again become boring for the spectator. Has anyone thought of that?
This is all just my opinion and I'll just say you are all lucky as hell to have the terrain and people willing to run these events for you. Just get out there and support it so the rest of us in the "other" areas of the country might one day have the chance to partake or spectate such an event!
I'd rather have a sister in a whorehouse than a Toyota in the shed.
I agree with the $$ factor and spectators but not keeping it in QLD.
There are more Rock Crawlers in NSW than all states put together, yes QLD has a good venue and good suport from the hard core people eg: TJ Pete, Sam, Ruff, Pos, Bj ect but I think the entire country should get to see the event and let it grow, including QLD. As for traveling to events, ( If you build it they will come), For XRCC Pete came from Sydney and I came from Melbourne. There is also talk about a round in SA and TJ Pete, Sam and Bj were talking about hireing a truck to float there rigs down.
Remember that the people that are serious wont miss a round as you need the accumulation of points from all rounds to win the series.
Yes its going to cost alot out of your own pocket, but in time when the sport takes off, Im sure sponsers will start to pick up the tab.
As I said B4, Spectators=Sponsers=$$= bigger sport.
There are more Rock Crawlers in NSW than all states put together, yes QLD has a good venue and good suport from the hard core people eg: TJ Pete, Sam, Ruff, Pos, Bj ect but I think the entire country should get to see the event and let it grow, including QLD. As for traveling to events, ( If you build it they will come), For XRCC Pete came from Sydney and I came from Melbourne. There is also talk about a round in SA and TJ Pete, Sam and Bj were talking about hireing a truck to float there rigs down.
Remember that the people that are serious wont miss a round as you need the accumulation of points from all rounds to win the series.
Yes its going to cost alot out of your own pocket, but in time when the sport takes off, Im sure sponsers will start to pick up the tab.
As I said B4, Spectators=Sponsers=$$= bigger sport.
XRCC RULES 2003
NEWS FLASH:----------------------- ROUND 3.
VENUE:------------------------------ NSW.
WHEN:------------------------------- 27th./28th. September
Just remember this is not a club event.
Regards MMM
VENUE:------------------------------ NSW.
WHEN:------------------------------- 27th./28th. September
Just remember this is not a club event.
Regards MMM
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
XRCC Rules 2003
Hi Steve from WA. Thanks for the input, who says I won`t have an XRCC Event in WA or wherever, give me the venue & some entrants and you never know what could happen in the future. I am always after a challenge.
Regards MMM
Regards MMM
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
The official results from the first XRCC event are up and lets just say they read totaly different to what we were told our positions were on Sat morning by Pete 
http://www.quantumtek.com.au/xrcc/xrcc_frameSet.htm
http://www.quantumtek.com.au/xrcc/xrcc_frameSet.htm
Dave got an idea that we use after here after we do a activity......Use a form of formal feedback straight after the event for the competitors. Just needs to be a few questions well thought out that directly relate to how they felt the comp was run. Use catergories like Pre Event Admin, Event Admin, Event Conduct, Post event Conduct, Safety, Rules that should cover most of it and address each or those topics applicable.....
Make it in a anonymous form, job done. 1 week after the event provide everyone with written feedback on what everyone thought and then if neccessary put things in place for change.
Do the same thing for the volunteers too but direct the Questions at what they did. Example Q. Spectatator safety was good Srongly agree, Agree, Unsure, Disagree, Strongly Disagree and leave a comment box for an explanation if it was at either extreme or they wish to voice something about the issue in particular.
The above makes it very easy to coallate opinion and ensure a fair validation and any major changes can be validated for sucees at the next event in the same manner.......
To overcome event euphoria maybe a follow up mid way between events to get a different view again......
Obvioulsy some had things they wanted to get off there chest and yeah if you have a outlet where this can be addressed where the benifit is immediate feedback, then it can only serve the sport I feel......
If anyone needs any help with something like this let us know...... Usually we would get the feeback and talk to everyone together so that the context of what is said can be guaged but but then straight after the event people have a long way to go as well....... If it achieves anything I find it focuses contructive critisism toward better outcomes......Oh one for selected members of the crowd to once it gets bigger too....
Cheers
Make it in a anonymous form, job done. 1 week after the event provide everyone with written feedback on what everyone thought and then if neccessary put things in place for change.
Do the same thing for the volunteers too but direct the Questions at what they did. Example Q. Spectatator safety was good Srongly agree, Agree, Unsure, Disagree, Strongly Disagree and leave a comment box for an explanation if it was at either extreme or they wish to voice something about the issue in particular.
The above makes it very easy to coallate opinion and ensure a fair validation and any major changes can be validated for sucees at the next event in the same manner.......
To overcome event euphoria maybe a follow up mid way between events to get a different view again......
Obvioulsy some had things they wanted to get off there chest and yeah if you have a outlet where this can be addressed where the benifit is immediate feedback, then it can only serve the sport I feel......
If anyone needs any help with something like this let us know...... Usually we would get the feeback and talk to everyone together so that the context of what is said can be guaged but but then straight after the event people have a long way to go as well....... If it achieves anything I find it focuses contructive critisism toward better outcomes......Oh one for selected members of the crowd to once it gets bigger too....
Cheers
suggestion: how about a time limit of 10 minutes on the course with no dnf.
points are accumulated on each obstacle so the quicker you can get through them the more points you get.
might have to make the stages a bit longer though.
points are accumulated on each obstacle so the quicker you can get through them the more points you get.
might have to make the stages a bit longer though.
[url=http://bigred.redbubble.com/][color=red][b]You can follow me but its gunna hurt ![/b][/color][/url]
event pics http://bigred.redbubble.com/
event pics http://bigred.redbubble.com/
big red wrote:suggestion: how about a time limit of 10 minutes on the course with no dnf.
points are accumulated on each obstacle so the quicker you can get through them the more points you get.
might have to make the stages a bit longer though.
Thats essencially how it worked at tjpetes comp, there were no actual DNF penalities (you just got penalised for the gates you didnt attempt). There was not enough time to complete the course so people had to make a decision on which gates to attempt and which ones to bypass.
I do hink that there should be a dnf time but for the courses that were set the DNF should have been about twice as long.
I would love this sport to be a technical driving event and not a race against the clock. I also think that racing with a spotter running around in front and behind a car is a dangerous thing.
Sam
could you make it so instead of the whole course having a total time limit, you could make a dnf for being stationary for too long?
If a someone gets stuck on an obstacle and obviously cant get past it they get DNF'd. You couldnt have the time so short that you couldnt have a few goes at the obstacle though.
That way you dont have to race through the entire stage.
If a someone gets stuck on an obstacle and obviously cant get past it they get DNF'd. You couldnt have the time so short that you couldnt have a few goes at the obstacle though.
That way you dont have to race through the entire stage.
overkill wrote:I agree with SAM but you need to have a bit of pressure put on to make it interesting.It makes you have you run set in your head before you start.
Well why not have one of the officials indicate to the driver and spotter combo that they consider the current teams position on the deck to be hazardous. Maybe use a whistle blast in that time the combo must attempt to reposition to a safe location and not attempt any further obstacles until safe which once again is a whistle blast...... If this would be considered time wasting then just time it out between the blasts and time on at other times......Could be used many ways if the official needs to talk to the crew for a reason be it safety or something that is going on in the run then the whislte blast again can be used.......
If not a whistle blast then a set of flags waved to indicate the spotter should move but then you miss out on time as it would be subjective to when the flag was waived and the crew saw it....
If combo postioning is potentially dangerous as indicated already here you can still have the time limit and the safety of the team in mind you just need transparent control measures....
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