Fitting magna EFi to 2.6 carb pajero! I'm going to go ahead!

[mrx78u]

I've decided that I am going to go ahead with attempting to fit a 2.6 magna TR-TS EFi system to my 88' 2.6 pajero carby.

I'll post up all of the information on this thread as I go, and make a reference when i've finished the job.

I know alot of people have talked about this, and it seems that everyone knows a *little* about it. But no one's been able to tell me much so far.

If anyone is interested in this, please help me out where you can, because i'll be brain picking as I go.

I'll start with the information I've got.

This weekend i'll be sourcing a the following parts to start with... TR magna EFi manifold / plenum, computer, airflow meter, EGO sensor, distributor (maybe), wiring loom, injectors, fuel rail, ignition coil. And whatever else I feel I need to make a start.

I'll be sending the manifold / plenum off to a guy in vic who's going to cut the ends off and swap them over so that the manifold will physically fit in the engine bay. (remember that the magna is East-West mounted engine).

I've just had a new exhaust fitted by exhaust fix (he did a tops job on that too!). I'll need to take the paj back to an exhaust shop to have the EGO sensor fitted into the exhaust.

The fuel lines will need to be replaced with high pressure ones, and a high pressure fuel pump installed. It was suggested to me that I use one out of a commodore, cheap and easy to get a hold of. The magna uses an in-tank fuel pump, so that's no good.

[mrx78u]

Can someone tell me if the pajero has a return fuel line? I haven't looked yet.

[smccask]

I would suggest looking around the net in the early galant and sigma circles, as fitment of the 2.6 and retrofitting of the magna efi is common in these cars - same basic 2.6 as the paj of course

A guy i knew through a friend who has a 2.6 GC galant, had a sigma wagon with the 2.6. he fitted the magna EFI system and also a turbo. he said he used the magna head as well, because apparently they flow better, due to better porting and larger valve diameters. he had to do the same with the inlet manifold.. cut off the flange and weld to the other side of the manifold. he dynoed the car, and was getting 240hp at the rear wheels. the car also had forged pistons, fancy bottom end, aftermarket computer, etc. used to do serious burnouts. it was a serious heap of crap tho, very funny... had a bonnet coutout to clear the turbo piping, lol.

pics here:
sigma 1
sigma 2
sigma 3

[constapa]

The fuel lines will need to be replaced with high pressure ones, and a high pressure fuel pump installed. It was suggested to me that I use one out of a commodore, cheap and easy to get a hold of. The magna uses an in-tank fuel pump, so that's no good.

Hi, mrx78u,
i have finished these days an EFI conversion in my '87 paj. It's not based on a Magna system - the components are from a '95 Nissan truck- but i can give my opinion.
1. GO THE EFI! my paj is another car after that. It worths every cent.
2. Why not an in tank fuel pump??? This the common way these days from almost all car manufacturers. In-tank pumps are cooled better (from petrol) and as a result they last more time. I had an external fuel pump but didn't work good when the fuel level was low. Remember that carbs have a small tank under so they don't have this problem.This is important because if fuel does not flows continiously trough the pump you may end looking for a new pump (and is expensive). The external pump must be at the bottom level and close to your tank and you will see that is not easy to find room to place it. The most important! If you use your paj for off roading, you have to be sure that petrol is reaching the pump under any circumstanses (i.e. when climbing or going downwards at steep hills etc.) If not, problems are in sight Can you imagine yourself with a burned pump far, far away from home and the night falling?:lol:
Solution ( i did that): Open the tank, weld a 10-12 cm piece of metal pipe at the bottom of the tank (DON'T DO IT YOURSELF!!!), put in the in-tank fuel pump, open two 6mm holes at the bottom of the pipe and drive the fuel return line in the pipe. I believe you understand the concept. This way the pump is always with petrol at every angle of the tank. I don't know if the Gen1 3.0 V6 SWB tank fits, but if it is this is propably the best solution.
Buy a used one with a working pump and you 're ok. Anyway this a point that you must give your attention.
I'll be glad to help with anything i know and details
Cheers

[-Scott-]

To overcome the fuel pump issues, some people fit a small "surge" tank between the main fuel tank and the engine. Use a small cheap pump to transfer from main tank to surge tank, then submerged pump in surge tank to feed engine. Buy/build surge tank to suit a particular fuel pump.

Cheers,

Scott

[constapa]

I agree Scott. This a good alternative solution. Fuel return line must return to the surge tank. At the top of that, another line must return fuel to the truck's tank. Anyway it's important to fit the external pump close to the tank and to the lower point of it. Personally i had hard times to do that and as a result the rear axle hit the pump and was hanging from the fuel lines...
Cheers

[mrx78u]

I actually have a nice surge tank left over from my rx7. Probably a little big for the job though...

[mrx78u]

Open the tank, weld a 10-12 cm piece of metal pipe at the bottom of the tank (DON'T DO IT YOURSELF!!!), put in the in-tank fuel pump, open two 6mm holes at the bottom of the pipe and drive the fuel return line in the pipe.

Why the fuel return line, wouldn't the fuel pickup line want to be in here? How would you go about mounting the pump inside the tank? This may be obvious, but i'm half asleep.

[constapa]

Why the fuel return line, wouldn't the fuel pickup line want to be in here? How would you go about mounting the pump inside the tank? This may be obvious, but i'm half asleep.

Inside your tank as it is now, you can see two fuel lines. The normal fuel line and the return fuel line. These two are fitted side by side. The idea behind the metal pipe (it's not mine, all factories do it this way...) is to have it full with petrol all the time. It has two 6mm holes at the bottom to communicate with the rest of the tank but the return line brings back enough petrol to fill it. This way under any angle the fuel pump has always fuel. Sport cars do the same because they face the same problem due to the acceleration they can achieve - all fuel tends to move to rear side of the tank. Well, RX7 is a nice example
Mounting the pipe? This is a nightmare and the main reason i told you to search a tank from a 3.0 V6 SWB. If you choose the hard way you must do it in a qualified technician. They cut the top of the tank and they weld everything with bronze as it is the only suitable material. Also they flush the tank to avoid explosion from petrol's gases (and this is the reason that i told you not to try it yourself...) I choosed the hard way just because i could'nt find a V6 tank
The surge tank maybe is a good solution but you must choose very carefully the location that you gonna fit this.
Cheers

[mrx78u]

Ok that makes more sense now. I think I read somewhere that the V6 swb has a different tank to accomodate a coil sprung rear. Although this may only apply to the LWB, i guess i'll have to have a look and see what I can find. I don't even know where to start trying to find someone to work on the fuel tank, in line filter & surge tank would probably be the easiest option I guess. I guess i'm lucky that I can get fuel pumps and high pressure fuel lines at just above cost from a friend of mine.

What do you think the chances of the magna computer understanding the information from the pajero temp sender are? And will I need to use the magna's distributor? I guess it would be easier, as it should wire straight into the wiring loom.

[mrx78u]

How's this for the fuel system. I'm thinking that this would be easier than modifying the fuel tank. This is based on the surge tank I have kicking around. It's around 1-1.2 Litre capacity. This would also mean that I could keep the low pressure fuel lines right up to the surge tank. But would the fuel return be low pressure? I guess the magna fuel system has a built in fuel pressure regulator?



Also, how about the hoses going to the surge tank, the three top ones, (Fuel supply from tank, Fuel return from rail, fuel return to tank.) What order should these be. The surge tank I have is designed to be mounted on an angle, but I was thinking it would be easier to mount vertically on the firewall or someting. Less chance of it being damaged off road. Also means I can keep more of the low pressure fuel hoses. What do you think? I don't remember seeing any particularly good positions for the surge tank under the paj. Now I think about it, the rx7 had it's surge tank located at the rear of the vehicle, just in front of the fuel tank.

Cheers,
Mick.

Oh and thanks for your help so far guys!

[J Top]

Injected vehicles have 2 temp senders, 1 for the guage and 1 for the computor. They have different conections
What about putting the tank under the passengers floor outside the chassis rail
J Top

[mrx78u]

Been using the sigma-galant.com lads for some more informatoion. They seem to have done this many times over. Just working out the fuel system now. Going to use a VL commodore EFI pump to save some $$ as well.

Have a look at my thread if you get the chance.

http://www.sigma-galant.com/modules.php ... 2707#12707

Can someone give me some advice on mounting the surge tank, i've selected a spot where the rear floor area steps up to the rear cargo area, this seems to be well protected and out of the way of the rear suspension. But the floor is double skinned, how should I go about mounting this?

EFI fuel pump will (i think) will be mounted just behind the chassis cross section, there's a nice plate welded on there, which looks just right for mounting the fuel pump on.

Please have a look at the thread linked above and let me know if you have any ideas.

Thanks guys!
Mick.

[constapa]

Hi Mick,
I don't know about the Magna, but one thing is sure: in mods like this you have to take all the parts that go with the EFI system - ECU, distributor, wiring loom, temp sensors etc. IF you want piece of mind...
I also vote for the surge tank. But you must crowl under your paj
with the external fuel pump at hand and search for a place you can fit it. Note that if you place the low pressure pump at the rear floor this is not quite wright because the pump must be as close to the bottom level of the truck's tank (and near it). Also note that in front of the tank and VERY close to the tank is the rear axle that off course moves up and down so close encounters must be avoided...

Also, how about the hoses going to the surge tank, the three top ones, (Fuel supply from tank, Fuel return from rail, fuel return to tank.) What order should these be.

The hoses. They must be on top of the surge tank.
DO NOT place the fuel tank in the engine's compartment. It is forbitten and i believe you guess why...
Cheers
Takis

[mrx78u]

Thanks for that. I think I should be able to get the low pressure pump level with the bottom of the fuel tank. But I will then have to run the fuel line straight up, back to the normal fuel line location. The high pressure pump should be level, if not slightly lower than the surge tank too! Getting power to the pumps won't be a problem either.

[mrx78u]

All the fuel system parts re ready to go. Aim to get under the paj on the weekend and make a start. Will be delivering the manifold off to a bloke who's doing swapping the throttle body over for me... Will keep the thread updated.

[mrx78u]

Here's the EFI gear fitted up. Something to look at. Runs like a dream, although dealing with a coolant leak at present. Alot has changed since this was taken though.

[NCpaj]

mate this thread is a great read, awesome pics to

[-Scott-]

Here's the EFI gear fitted up. Something to look at. Runs like a dream, although dealing with a coolant leak at present. Alot has changed since this was taken though.

What, other than spark plugs and leads?

[mrx78u]

Ha clever aren't we...

See the messy wiring? That's all in the correct place now, and the loom has been finished. Airbox has been fitted up, throttle cable bracket, top dadiator hose, a battery... and that's about all. Looks fairly neat when all together though.

[hudson44]

Any updated pics?

[mrx78u]

You're in heidelburg. You can come have a look if you like. I'm in greensborough.

Will take some updated pics tomorrow and put them up.

[mrx78u]

For anyone who's interested. The project has temporarily come to a standstill, partly because it's bloody hot and I couldn't be bothered doing any work, and partly because I'm repeatedly failing to get a welsh plug in properly.

It's all running at the moment. I managed to pick up all the parts I needed to plumb up the intake from autobarn of all places. They actually have alot of stuff that I couldn't even get from truck exhaust/intake parts suppliers.

When I get the welsh plug issue solved, i'll need to have the extractors tapped for an oxygen sensor, and i'll need to have a knock sensor tapped into the block. This should be enough to get the ECU working properly, it's in limp mode at the moment (timing and mixture fixed). So as I said it's running, but not quite how it should be. That being said it still goes quite well as is. Just doesn't start/idle quite how it should and it's running a little rich.

I still need to fabricate up some mounting brackets for the airbox, which I haven't quite got worked out as yet, it's rather unusually shaped, so makes it rather difficuly, especially for someone with absolutely no idea what they're doing (such as me)

I might pick up a 16" thermo fan this weekend, that way I should be able to make some more room for intake plumbing, should tidy things up a bit from how they are now. (Not shown in photo) there's an 80mm intake hose which runs across the front of the head, just clearing the clutch fan.

Here's a recent photo of the engine bay, this is with a temporary pod filter attached for testing purposes. Pod filter does bad things to the AFM readings and actually makes the vehicle run like absolute crap, so it's not a good idea. Also bearing in mind that it's being build for off road, so it's probably a bad idea anyway.

[CRUSHU]

www.CVEPerformance.com is fitting EFI and a high mount turbo to a Triton at the moment.
Maybe shoot some questions thru to him?

[constapa]

. Pod filter does bad things to the AFM readings and actually makes the vehicle run like absolute crap, so it's not a good idea.

Hi mick, glad to see you still on track
Well, the Air Flow Meters is a nightmarE. The slightest change on the factory setup means problems. Personally i had hard times with that. What can i say... I HATE THEM!!! I'm on aturbo conversion now and AMF is the main reason that i'm thinking seriously to move to an OEM ECU working with MAP.
You must use the original air filter housing. You're running reach? With a pod filter? Strange...It should be the opposite.

[mrx78u]

I'm running the standard airbox, on different plumbing however. Firstly it's running rich because it's on limp settings (i think) meaning that the ECU is running off a factory "safe" setting, and not adjusting timing/mixture based on sensor inputs.

The problem with the pod filter (on mitsi AFMs) is that they cause a swirling of the air which causes the AFM (honeycombe type) to misread the airflow. (Or so i'm told) which of course causes the ECU to adjust the mixture incorrectly. K&N actually make a unit especially for the mitsi AFM for this reason. Not that I want to run a pod filter anyway.

It's running again as of today anyway. Welsh plug is in (sort of), will get the local spanners to finish that task for me, because i've had enough of that. Airbox is finally mounter in a reasonable location, although i'm going to have to modify it to allow me to attach a hose for a better air pickup location. I've removed the clutch fan to make some extra room for the intake hose to run across the front of the engine.

I also installed the throttle body/fast idle air bypass valve which I just rebuilt, they look like new. Although I suspect that my old idle speed controller is stuffed.

I think the only things which need to be done now to finish the job, are to install the new thermo fans, have a bung welded to the exhaust for the oxygen sensor and install a knock sensor, that should be everything which was attached to the factory ECU when it was in the magna, and with any luck, it should run like factory... (I'll kill you murphey)

I'll need to pull the charcoal canister from a magna to plumb back in, i'm trying to keep all the factory emission controls in place, in case i have any issues with the 'law' in future.

We're getting there, slowly. Will post up some new pics with the airbox and thermo fans tomorrow. Thinking about buying a new 4b now, want to do some actual wheeling...

[mrx78u]

Latest images taken today with the new (10"+12") thermo fans in place and running. Will probably build a proper shroud for them when I get a new radiator, but for now will keep them installed as per instructions.

Let me know what you think, and feel free to point out anything stupid, with the exception of the intake hose sitting on the front of the cylinder head, and the breather attached to a bolt on the intake runners.

Have some cable to run tonight from the dash switches to the thermo fan and driving light relays.

As for the knock sensor, i'm going to have a metal plate tapped to fit that in, I will then bolt it hard to the intake side of the block to save tapping it into the block. Probably not ideal, but should keep the ECU happy that way. The local parts guy has a tool for installing the welsh plug i'm struggling with at the moment, he's also going to weld an oxygen sensor bung to the exhaust for me... yay. Should run like a dream then, provided everything else is working ok. Can't tell until everything is finished though.