Story of MQ wheel bearings/diff replacement

[Heathx4]

I've recently had to replace the spider and side gears in the front diff of my 82 SWB MQ. Of course, this required removal of both front axles. For those that don't realise, this is a much bigger job than removing the rear axles! It is certainly one of those jobs that will take a quarter of the time second time around, so if you're trying it for the first time, try to get someone experienced to look over your shoulder.

In summary (from memory) to remove a front axle shaft (manual locking hubs):

0. Jack up and support front axle with a pair of secure axle stands.
1. Take wheel off.
2. Remove brake calliper (two thick 13/16" bolts) and tuck out of the way without damaging the brake line.
3. Remove manual locking hub inner (flat screwdriver on 6 small bolts).
4. Remove surclip from end of exposed axle (use surclip pliers - I didn't!).
5. Remove manual locking hub outer (4 14mm bolts + 2 14mm nuts. No idea why they aren't all bolts or nuts). May take a couple of whacks to dislodge outer.
- Things get very greasy from here
6. Wheel bearing adjustment nuts will be exposed. To remove the nuts, clean all the grease out from around the edge so you can see the locking washer. It's a flat washer that sits between the two nuts and it should be bent backwards and forwards to lock both nuts. Bend the tab away from the outermost nut with a screwdriver and hammer.
7. Remove the outer nut with a 54mm wheel bearing socket (expect to pay at least $25 for socket). It may not be a tight fit on nut, but should be fine - the nut is probably not super tight anyway).
8. Slide locking washer off with a couple of screwdrivers, and remove inner nut with the 54mm socket.
9. The entire hub with disk brake attached is now ready to slide off. There's no need to undo the 6 17mm nuts that hold the disk to the hub (there's 20 minutes I didn't need to spend)!
10. Once the hub is off, the backing plate will be exposed. Undo the 6 14mm bolts that hold the backing plate on.
11. Remove the backing plate, and the axle will be free to move. Probably easiest to leave the axle sheath/mounting plate thingy (name?) on the the axle. It may slide straight off with the backing plate, or it may stay stuck to the axle. You'll recognise it because it'll sheath the splined axle.
12. If you're on the long side (look how far away the diff is from the side you are working on), be prepared to handle a long bendy (at the CV) axle, and slide the sucker out.
To remove the diff:
13. Repeat for the other axle.
14. Remove split pin from top of one of the two tie rod end ball joints.
15. Undo the nut with split pin removed, so that it sits flush with the top of the thread.
16. Make lots of room to swing by turning the steering.
17. Belt the living bejeezus out of the nut (towards the ground), forcing the ball joint apart. What's a ball joint separator dooby worth here - belting is not a great tactic? I couldn't get the drivers ball joint apart, but the passenger finally gave in with a bit of rock persuasion.
18. Undo the nut fully and separate the ball joint's taper from the hole so the steering link is free. Move it out of the way of the diff. Only has to move an inch or so.
18. Put an oil tray under the diff and undo the 12 odd 12mm bolts from the inspection plate on the front of the diff.
19. Crack the gasket seal with a screwdriver (mine was a reusable bit of thin plastic stuff) and let the oil pour out.
20. Mark the bearing caps on both sides of the diff so you know their orientation and side.
21. Undo the 4 17" bolts on the carrier bearing caps (tight - breaker bar time!). My bolt head were oddly tapered so I had to firmly hold the socket on the bolt while undoing.
22. The diff is now held in only by being squeezed in next to the shims on both sides. Belt it with a soft mallet to loosed it up.
23. As you slide the diff out, make sure you note where each shim came from.

If anyone can offer some improvements on that run-down, please do. Now onto the troubles I had:

1. I really didn't know how tight to make the inner and outer wheel bearing nuts. I just used my old bike axle cone bearing method - tighten the inner one up snug so there is *zero* movement of hub on axle, but not so tight so the bearings are grinding. Bend the locking washer back (I straightened the old one out first, but should really have got a new one for <$10) so it snugly holds the inner nut. Tighten the outer nut quite tight to hold the inner in it's place. Should be careful not to inadvertently over-tighten the inner one doing so though! Bend the locking washer over snug against the outer nut.

2. I don't have surclip pliers (would have saved me a ton of time by now if I did!) so couldn't get the surclip back on the end of the axle with the manual hub on. Instead, I removed the manual hub and slid the surclip past the first non-splined section in the axle to the second non-splined section. This held the axle out against the sheath hub thing and in against the manual hub, and seems to be doing the trick. I've had one comment that this is a no-no. Can anyone shed more light on this trick - is the second non-splined groove (the one furthest from the end of the axle) not to be used to hold a surclip? Are both supposed to be used? Should I immediately remove the surclip, get some pliers and put it on the end of the axle after the manual hub outer??

3. When doing up the backing plate bolts on the passenger (long) side, the axle seemed to get stuck against the side of the sheath and wouldn't move. I removed the backing plate and axle sheath/hub thing to find the small cylindrical roller bearings from the carrier on the inside of the sheath/hub thing falling out all over the place. I immediately concluded I'd smashed the bearing, gave up for the night, and went bearing shopping the next day. I rang around for MQ front wheel bearing kits: 4wd spare parts store $90, first bearing shop $83+GST not in stock, second bearing shop $50+GST. Turns out when I went looking for the latter store, I visited its neighbour by mistake. They wanted $87 until I told them that the other bearing store (which turned out to be 2 shops down!) said $50+GST. A bit of murmuring on their behalf and they sold it to me for $55. Who sets these prices?

Of course, when I finally got back (the treadly getting a massive workout - its wheel bearings are next) I discovered that the wheel bearings in the kit were not the one on the inside of the sheath/hub thing. The bearings in the kit are the tapered outer raceway and 4mm roller bearing pairs on the inside of the big hub/disk assembly. Almost ready to burn the lot, I realised that the a couple of the rollers from my "collapsed" bearing slid smoothly back into the carrier. Miraculously, I found all but one of the rollers, and the bearing seemed to operate smoothly. Packed with bearing grease, I slid it all back together and operation seemed smooth. What potential for damage have I caused, running this bearing one roller short? There are maybe 30 rollers in the bearing.

I choose to end my story now. Please post up your thoughts.

PS. massive thumbs up to beefie for his vocal assisstance with the diff and coming through with the parts!

[gurumon]

your timing is excellent - im halfway through doing the front end on the mq at the moment

your explanation is a hell of a lot better than the gregorys

[V8Patrol]

3 things........


1:
ALWAYS REPLCE THE LOCKING TAB BETWEEN THE WHEEL BEARING LOCK NUTS WITH A NEW ONE.......
the risk of failing is high and the damage can be huge if the old plates are re-used...... the front wheel will come off and usually its around 100kph and without warning, seen this happen and it aint pretty !

2:
There are two shims that live up against the hub and encircle the locknuts, bu removing these it gives you more room with which to get the socket onto the lock nuts and also helps with getting that locking plate out !

3:
Tierod end removal......Undo the nut so that atleast 5 threads remain ( ie: dont remove it fully just yet ),
place a long bar ( read crowbar ) between the arms so that force can be applied in the "seperating direction", have some apply weight to force em apart.
then with a large hammer belt the casting around the actual arm through which the tierod end goes.
By not removing the nut fully the arm with the tierod will drop down 10mm and this will save your "assistant" from face dancing on the concrete floor ( mind you its quite funny the first time )

but getting their assistance the 2nd time around will be hard

Kingy

P/S
tierod removal tools can damage the rubber boot covering the ball, this allows grit to enter the greased ball joint area........ not a good thing

[Screwy]

with regards to the circlip....

Yes it needs to be on the end of the axle spline right up against the other of the manuel hub section. do not do it any other way.

the inner small roller bearing that you are talking about that sits at the back of the disk over the stub axle will be fine with one roller missing.
you wont have any problems there.

your method on tightening the axle nuts is correct.
the 54mm inner nut needs to be tightened till firm and no movement and then fully tighten the outer nut after the tabs have been bent over.

from what i can tell you should be fine. Just check the tightness of your wheelbearings after 200ks and again after another 500ks......

then just recheck them after the first time you lock your hubs and go wheeling and thats it....

always pays to be safe than sorry.

screwy

[DR Frankenstine]

Bloody hell you did it the hard way!!

1. remove wheel
2. remove caliper
3. remove 12mm bolts from swiper seal
4. remove top and bottom swivell hub caps
5. pull out axle. hub, bearings etc in tact.

[coxy321]

So......, that whole big step-by-step isn't needed????!

I'm changing my front centre soon, I hope its as easy as Dr Frankenstein said!!!!

[DR Frankenstine]

Bloody hell you did it the hard way!!

1. remove wheel
2. remove caliper
3. remove 12mm bolts from swiper seal
4. remove top and bottom swivell hub caps
5. pull out axle. hub, bearings etc in tact.

Forgot one


remove tie rod end from steering arm.

You would only do the major dissasembly if you wanted to do the wheel bearings and swivell hub kit at the same time and prolly not a bad idea on some vehicles.

[Screwy]

Bloody hell you did it the hard way!!

1. remove wheel
2. remove caliper
3. remove 12mm bolts from swiper seal
4. remove top and bottom swivell hub caps
5. pull out axle. hub, bearings etc in tact.

Forgot one


remove tie rod end from steering arm.

You would only do the major dissasembly if you wanted to do the wheel bearings and swivell hub kit at the same time and prolly not a bad idea on some vehicles.

i find undoing the wheel bearing 54mm nuts is actually quicker and less risk.... i hate knocking the tierod ends off ( risk damage to thread and nut and split pin etc and risking damage to that wiper seal....

doing it the way heath described i can get a CV out and back on with wheel on in under half hour so im more than happy doing it that way.

screwy

[DR Frankenstine]

Bloody hell you did it the hard way!!

1. remove wheel
2. remove caliper

3. remove 12mm bolts from swiper seal
4. remove top and bottom swivell hub caps
5. pull out axle. hub, bearings etc in tact.

Forgot one


remove tie rod end from steering arm.

You would only do the major dissasembly if you wanted to do the wheel bearings and swivell hub kit at the same time and prolly not a bad idea on some vehicles.

i find undoing the wheel bearing 54mm nuts is actually quicker and less risk.... i hate knocking the tierod ends off ( risk damage to thread and nut and split pin etc and risking damage to that wiper seal....

doing it the way heath described i can get a CV out and back on with wheel on in under half hour so im more than happy doing it that way.

screwy

Who asked for your opinion
your obviously not a very godd shot with a hammer

6 steps surelly must be quicker than 20 something

[DR Frankenstine]

I've recently had to replace the spider and side gears in the front diff of my 82 SWB MQ. Of course, this required removal of both front axles. For those that don't realise, this is a much bigger job than removing the rear axles! It is certainly one of those jobs that will take a quarter of the time second time around, so if you're trying it for the first time, try to get someone experienced to look over your shoulder.

In summary (from memory) to remove a front axle shaft (manual locking hubs):

0. Jack up and support front axle with a pair of secure axle stands.
1. Take wheel off.
2. Remove brake calliper (two thick 13/16" bolts) and tuck out of the way without damaging the brake line.
3. Remove manual locking hub inner (flat screwdriver on 6 small bolts).
4. Remove surclip from end of exposed axle (use surclip pliers - I didn't!).
5. Remove manual locking hub outer (4 14mm bolts + 2 14mm nuts. No idea why they aren't all bolts or nuts). May take a couple of whacks to dislodge outer.
- Things get very greasy from here
6. Wheel bearing adjustment nuts will be exposed. To remove the nuts, clean all the grease out from around the edge so you can see the locking washer. It's a flat washer that sits between the two nuts and it should be bent backwards and forwards to lock both nuts. Bend the tab away from the outermost nut with a screwdriver and hammer.
7. Remove the outer nut with a 54mm wheel bearing socket (expect to pay at least $25 for socket). It may not be a tight fit on nut, but should be fine - the nut is probably not super tight anyway).
8. Slide locking washer off with a couple of screwdrivers, and remove inner nut with the 54mm socket.
9. The entire hub with disk brake attached is now ready to slide off. There's no need to undo the 6 17mm nuts that hold the disk to the hub (there's 20 minutes I didn't need to spend)!
10. Once the hub is off, the backing plate will be exposed. Undo the 6 14mm bolts that hold the backing plate on.
11. Remove the backing plate, and the axle will be free to move. Probably easiest to leave the axle sheath/mounting plate thingy (name?) on the the axle. It may slide straight off with the backing plate, or it may stay stuck to the axle. You'll recognise it because it'll sheath the splined axle.
12. If you're on the long side (look how far away the diff is from the side you are working on), be prepared to handle a long bendy (at the CV) axle, and slide the sucker out.
To remove the diff:
13. Repeat for the other axle.
14. Remove split pin from top of one of the two tie rod end ball joints.
15. Undo the nut with split pin removed, so that it sits flush with the top of the thread.
16. Make lots of room to swing by turning the steering.
17. Belt the living bejeezus out of the nut (towards the ground), forcing the ball joint apart. What's a ball joint separator dooby worth here - belting is not a great tactic? I couldn't get the drivers ball joint apart, but the passenger finally gave in with a bit of rock persuasion.
18. Undo the nut fully and separate the ball joint's taper from the hole so the steering link is free. Move it out of the way of the diff. Only has to move an inch or so.
18. Put an oil tray under the diff and undo the 12 odd 12mm bolts from the inspection plate on the front of the diff.
19. Crack the gasket seal with a screwdriver (mine was a reusable bit of thin plastic stuff) and let the oil pour out.
20. Mark the bearing caps on both sides of the diff so you know their orientation and side.
21. Undo the 4 17" bolts on the carrier bearing caps (tight - breaker bar time!). My bolt head were oddly tapered so I had to firmly hold the socket on the bolt while undoing.
22. The diff is now held in only by being squeezed in next to the shims on both sides. Belt it with a soft mallet to loosed it up.
23. As you slide the diff out, make sure you note where each shim came from.

If anyone can offer some improvements on that run-down, please do. Now onto the troubles I had:

1. I really didn't know how tight to make the inner and outer wheel bearing nuts. I just used my old bike axle cone bearing method - tighten the inner one up snug so there is *zero* movement of hub on axle, but not so tight so the bearings are grinding. Bend the locking washer back (I straightened the old one out first, but should really have got a new one for <$10) so it snugly holds the inner nut. Tighten the outer nut quite tight to hold the inner in it's place. Should be careful not to inadvertently over-tighten the inner one doing so though! Bend the locking washer over snug against the outer nut.

2. I don't have surclip pliers (would have saved me a ton of time by now if I did!) so couldn't get the surclip back on the end of the axle with the manual hub on. Instead, I removed the manual hub and slid the surclip past the first non-splined section in the axle to the second non-splined section. This held the axle out against the sheath hub thing and in against the manual hub, and seems to be doing the trick. I've had one comment that this is a no-no. Can anyone shed more light on this trick - is the second non-splined groove (the one furthest from the end of the axle) not to be used to hold a surclip? Are both supposed to be used? Should I immediately remove the surclip, get some pliers and put it on the end of the axle after the manual hub outer??

3. When doing up the backing plate bolts on the passenger (long) side, the axle seemed to get stuck against the side of the sheath and wouldn't move. I removed the backing plate and axle sheath/hub thing to find the small cylindrical roller bearings from the carrier on the inside of the sheath/hub thing falling out all over the place. I immediately concluded I'd smashed the bearing, gave up for the night, and went bearing shopping the next day. I rang around for MQ front wheel bearing kits: 4wd spare parts store $90, first bearing shop $83+GST not in stock, second bearing shop $50+GST. Turns out when I went looking for the latter store, I visited its neighbour by mistake. They wanted $87 until I told them that the other bearing store (which turned out to be 2 shops down!) said $50+GST. A bit of murmuring on their behalf and they sold it to me for $55. Who sets these prices?

Of course, when I finally got back (the treadly getting a massive workout - its wheel bearings are next) I discovered that the wheel bearings in the kit were not the one on the inside of the sheath/hub thing. The bearings in the kit are the tapered outer raceway and 4mm roller bearing pairs on the inside of the big hub/disk assembly. Almost ready to burn the lot, I realised that the a couple of the rollers from my "collapsed" bearing slid smoothly back into the carrier. Miraculously, I found all but one of the rollers, and the bearing seemed to operate smoothly. Packed with bearing grease, I slid it all back together and operation seemed smooth. What potential for damage have I caused, running this bearing one roller short? There are maybe 30 rollers in the bearing.

I choose to end my story now. Please post up your thoughts.

PS. massive thumbs up to beefie for his vocal assisstance with the diff and coming through with the parts!

note 17. You dont get tie rods out this way.
Your right up till you say hit the nut downwards towards the ground. you actually hit the end of the steering arm, the one moulded on the swivell hub, hit it hard and the tie rod will just drop out.

[V8Patrol]

note 17. You dont get tie rods out this way.
Your right up till you say hit the nut downwards towards the ground. you actually hit the end of the steering arm, the one moulded on the swivell hub, hit it hard and the tie rod will just drop out.

Agreed

not only that but by belting the phuck out of the nut you end up damaging either the nut or the thread and therefore having even more reason to start throwing a hissy fit......

A few strong smacks with a normal hammer onto the cast part of the assembly will see a good result. Personally tierod splitters ( or forks ..... what ever skool ya went ta ) arent worth the hassle and are really for the skirt wearing limpos that just want something else to clutter up their tool chests and to show off with............


Pass me a crowbar and a big hammer and watch a single swing release em every time......

Kingy

[Heathx4]

Update: Bought two new locking tab washers for $5 total and slipped them in. Bent them in 4 places too, 2 forward and 2 back. Bought circlip (my surclip spelling appears to be wrong) pliers with multiple angle attachments and a 10-50mm working range that can squeeze in or out, for $8.50 at Supercheap! Compared to $37 for a very limited use one at the bearing shop

I can't see how I ever did without the pliers - incredibly easy to get the circlip on and off now, and put it in the right place!

Unfortunately, I still have movement in the wheels top to bottom! I'm confident its not the wheel bearings - they're done up snug, and are new on the side with the most movement. Could this be the king pin bearings? Looks like the DR's method is next on my list. Can I adjust/replace king pin bearings (or swivel hub bearings?) without undoing the wheel nuts again?

I also realise now I could do wheel bearings without taking the wheel off! That'd be nice for rotating the hub and checking for play as the bearings are adjusted. Is this a reasonable method?

[DR Frankenstine]

Update: Bought two new locking tab washers for $5 total and slipped them in. Bent them in 4 places too, 2 forward and 2 back. Bought circlip (my surclip spelling appears to be wrong) pliers with multiple angle attachments and a 10-50mm working range that can squeeze in or out, for $8.50 at Supercheap! Compared to $37 for a very limited use one at the bearing shop

I can't see how I ever did without the pliers - incredibly easy to get the circlip on and off now, and put it in the right place!

Unfortunately, I still have movement in the wheels top to bottom! I'm confident its not the wheel bearings - they're done up snug, and are new on the side with the most movement. Could this be the king pin bearings? Looks like the DR's method is next on my list. Can I adjust/replace king pin bearings (or swivel hub bearings?) without undoing the wheel nuts again?

I also realise now I could do wheel bearings without taking the wheel off! That'd be nice for rotating the hub and checking for play as the bearings are adjusted. Is this a reasonable method?

If your swivell hub bearings arn't notchy you could just remove some shims to get them tighter. If you want to replace the bearings dont forget the bearing cups . you would have to remove the whole axle assembly as I said before. When doing wheel bearings why wouldnt you remove the wheel thats the fast/easy part. makes a lighter job of it as well

[Spartacus]

ive undone everything and am ready to pull out the center.

where can i hit it to loosen it up?

[Screwy]

ive undone everything and am ready to pull out the center.

where can i hit it to loosen it up?

im assuming your reffering to the front diff......

just get a peice of solid timber and knock it on the top of the crown wheel once the front cover is out... if this fails the easiest way i have used is simple to get a big screwdriver and just leaver it out. always comes out this way.... especially if you leaver out the spacer rings on either side of the end caps....
dont hit the centre or any part with anything metal.

screwy

[Spartacus]

yes its the front.

i wasnt sure on levering it out at the edges as it looked like bearings.
alrighty. ill go outside an try to hit it and lever it out

[Spartacus]

i got it out... bangin away till i saw something move.
ended up just reachin in and pullin it out easy as.

[Big Red Toy]

you guys make it sound hard

When clearly, all it takes is a 6 pack of beers & some loud music

Its easy........ As long as you've got the right tools


A really big hammer comes in handy when trying to get the disc off the stud & bearing assembly