sierra 1.6 vitara conversion

[ado250]

Ok Guys, forgive me if I'm asking SIMILAR questions again, but I have done a comprehensive search through the bibles and cannot find the specific answers I need. Questions are relating to general engine install at this stage, so anyone who has done it will be able to help.

Mating engine to gearbox: It has been said you can weld tabs, but is the Gbox steel or some sort of alloy (requiring tig welding?)? Is it possible just to redrill the bell housing (engine) to line up the Gbox bolts?

Drivers side engine Mount: Said to be moved forward or back 10mm, how do I acomplish this? Is it as simple as a thick flat plate with holes to remount it in a different posi?

Oil Pan and Pickup Is it possible to use the original vitara oil pan and pickup if I have a 2 inch spring and 1.5 inch shackle lifts? I have a bit more room between the chassis and the axle now.

Extractors Can I use the original extractors on my sierra (as they are aftermarket, I'd like to keep!) on a G16B Efi head or will I have to get another set of extractors. If I can use them, is it just a matter of setting them higher for the taller block, and how is this done?

As you can all see, I have thought it out a fair bit!! Any help would be great.

Ado

[nicbeer]

U can buy the adapter kit from BenT from here for less that the aus kit. I have got one here and looks good. will be using it when my engine gets here.

AFAIK:

engine mount, slot bolt hole and i think it works.

oil pan - i think u need 4" of lift or above. but i would like to know.

extractors - need efi ones, about 240ish

[ado250]

Ok, will alter question a bit (although I think I already know the answer), will the 1.3 extractors fit on the 1.6 8V head (instead of the 16V)?

[bazooked]

yes but why would ya want an 8 valve?, and from memory u need the hurricane brand extractors they clear the block and chassis.

[ado250]

Yes too true, why in the hell would you want the 8 valve?!!

Ok, so still unclear is the welding/drilling for the Gbox connection, and also the oil pickup.

Nic/Bazooked, thanks for the replies.

[BenT]

I make an adaptor kit to fit the 1600 without modifying your gearbox. I can ship to anywhere in Aus for $200 AU (I'm in NZ).

The kit comes with all the stuff you need to mount the motor to the box without re-drilling or tapping anything.
You can do it without an adaptor kit, but you have to weld tabs on and drill out some holes in your gearbox.

The drivers side engine mount doesn't line up and needs an adaptor (which comes in my kit ).

You can use the vitara sump if you've got enough lift, or more specifically, more bump-stop packers. You really need at least 2" of bump-stop packing to clear the sump nicely.
The sump DOES hit the diff if you don't have any packers.

The head exhaust mounting surface and bolt pattern is the same between the 8V 1600 and 1300, so either type will fit the head. Its just a matter of whether they clear the chassis and mounts.

Ive got an 8 valve and it goes really well. My mate has a 16V and it goes even better. Much more top end power. The 8V does have slightly more off idle torque however, which is nicer when letting out the clutch / creeping over stuff off road.

You may also need a body lift to clear the intake manifold / air intake pipe.

Baleno motors fit without a body lift due to the lower intake manifold (the newer coil on plug distributorless ones anyway)

Ben

[ado250]

Well that solves some problems doesn't it??!!!

200 bucks shipped? That's a bloody bargain! Where do I sign?

Mate I will definately keep that in mind. Problem at the moment is finding and engine with bits and pieces to fit. I am thinking of a rebuild either on an 8V 1600 or the obvious choice of 1.6 16V EFI (not rebuilt).

It seems though that the 2.0 litre is much easier to get a hold of. Are the same principles (with the mating to gbox etc) applicable with the 2.0L engine? Has anyone actually been able to get these engineered in NSW or is it too powerful an engine without chassis mods?

I can easily get a hold of a 60K 2.0 litre for under $1800 with the ECU and all other bits.

Ado

[DiddyZook]

Two litre Sierra, that's an idea I have been tossing around for a while.

The J20A (97-02 Vitara 4cyl) 94 kw @6000rpm 174 nm @2900 still an alloy four cylinder Suzuki motor.

http://members.cox.net/aftermarket4x4/2liter.html is a link to a pretty good yank build up.

If you can get a 60k motor ecu etc for $1800 then it starts to look oh so much more tempting.

I remember searching the bible a while ago and someone on here in Qld had previously done this conversion.

If only I had the $$$$

[ado250]

Wow that's a great link, shows up the engine mount really well in the pic. Basically just a sideways offset via a plate.

Doesn't mention the extractor mods though, although I guess if buying a halfcut of something similar, extractors shouldn't be a problem.

I reckon all my questions have been answered, definately not going 2litre! Lots of work, maybe next engine when the zook is a "weekend car".

Will also look at sourcing a beleno halfcut.

Ado

[Superduki]

I went the 1.6 carby install from a dead 1.3 and i wouldn't go to it if you want performance. It had good torque and was a friendlier motor to drive with in the bush but overall road performance was not noticed. I kept the 1.6 sump and pick on it, i had a calmini 5 inch spring lift and it cleared very easy. I used an adaptor kit from suziwest in WA. The bolt in this way was easy and not time consuming. You need to use the 1.3 flywheel, which bolts straight on, and my 1.3 extractors bolted straight up with no dramas. You need to make a custom clutch cable bracket which is only a right angle bracket. Only other problems i had was tracing the wiring to the carby which was different, sierra and vitara. Once done this made the thing actually stop when you turned the key off! And i got the original sierra accelerator cable shortened 30mm to fit the 1.6

If any more help needed please anyone pm me as i own a datsun GU now and i dont frequent the suzuki section much,

At least till i see the light and buy another one

Cheers, Simon Grice.

[bazooked]

well an adaptor kit for 200 bux is a bargain, no doubt people will get shitty as i found out tryin to do my own kit, needless to say who really cares, i hope ya sell heaps of them.!

[Billety]

With the 16v 1.6l you're going to have more dramas with the wiring! I've been researching the wiring side for some time to get it correct... no just have the motor running and havn't been able to find all the answers yet. I'm getting an auto elact to look at it this weekend.

[bazooked]

i paid an auto leccy 200 bux and its all good he did the chop and sorted all the wires, it was to easy.

[ado250]

I guess the wires are sortable, just the speed sensor that concerns me, but 200 bux for the AE would be cheap, no headaches.

Have found a new conversion that I might follow up, if time is a factor (as I'm going back to work 6 days very soon - bloody construction!!). Jimny 1.3bb seems to be a helluva lot simpler than the vit 1.6, although not as much power increase. It's the easier/cheaper option I guess.

[Billety]

With the wiring, if you don't hook up the 'check engine' circuit and the wiring has a fault, you could be running on "limp home mode" all the time and eventually stuff your computer.
Jimny motor won't bolt to the Sierra gearbox I'm told and you still have wiring issues.

[ado250]

Jimny won't bolt on hey??? hmmm, well there goes that idea

Limp home mode!! Hehehe, well I have the wiring diagrams for both the sierra and vitara + Swift (I think) and I have had a quick look over, shouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to work out, with all the wires coloured for reference etc. Who knows though, might just hand it over to the auto elec and see what they can work out.

Will keep the engine check circuit in mind, seems like one of those critical things to get right.

Ado

[Nev]

Jimny motor won't bolt to the Sierra gearbox I'm told and you still have wiring issues.

I'd check this out before shying away from the G13bb conversion coz i'm pretty sure the sierra gearbox will bolt to the G13bb it just won't bolt onto the newer twin cam m13A. Apparentely a very easy conversion. Pm spike_sierra as he did the conversion and said it was simple as IIRC

[Guy]

yes but why would ya want an 8 valve?, and from memory u need the hurricane brand extractors they clear the block and chassis.

I had "genie" extractors on mine ... cleared with issue on the 1.3 and the 1.6

[Guy]

Who ever sid that you dont get a performance boost from a 1.6, yours must have either been stuffed or chocked to death ... I could happily sit on the illegal side of the speedlimit on 32's or 35's on the flat and could sit on the limit on hiway hills in 4th ... that was before I started "hotting it up" with head work etc ..

[Nev]

i have heard from a few people with 1.6L CARBY engines in their sierra and none were very impressed with performance gains. It mainly seems that the gear ratios in the 1.3 don't suit the 1.6 as well to get the full potential out of the engine. This is just second hand from people though and i have no direct experience.

[joshnz1]

yeah nevs right there i put a 1.6 carb in my sierra and it was only a bit more powerful and ate heaps more fuel so i put a 1.3 back in and just changed the gear ratio's

[ado250]

I think you're spot on with the G13bb Nev, but it's not so popular (I guess??) as it's a Bugger of an engine to find, and not near as much power gain as 1.3 GTI or Vit - less 'bang for your buck'.

I currently have a weber 32/36 with ported intake, Accel coil, extractors, and 2 inch exhaust, and it pulls up almost any hill in Australia (and I have been up the steepest - rear fully loaded) in 4th. Wouldn't be surprised if the 1.6 carby could do that easily. I'd be impressed if it was pulling a trailer though

Quite happy with performance actually but K's getting up a bit, so am looking to get another before life gets really busy with work (planning to keep the zook for a few years yet )

Who knows, maybe I after the EFI is in, I will be able to get the first 'supercharger how to' up on here!

Ado

[droopypete]

Are you guys serious??????
your mates must have been hooking the throttle cable up to the heater, because something is waaaaay wrong, even before gear swaps my 1.6 carb engine was a huge improvment over the 1.3, I am talking "diferent car" improvement, not a subtle diferance.
Peter.

[ado250]

You guys are talking big variables here.

What carby did you all use?
What type extractors and exhaust system?
Engine Age?

Etc.

It would make sense that the 1.6 would be more powerful than the 1.3 IMO, with all variables being the same. Suggestions of gearing don't seem valid, as zook power drops waaaaaaaaaay before the gears start to limit things (possibly I'm misunderstanding the concept).

Ado

[ado250]

Will an aftermarket Speedo solve my "speed sensor" problems? Would it have some sort of electrical speed sensor at the back? I was thinking I just replace the sierra speedo with an aftermarket.

Does anyone have any idea how to convert the speedo with the speed sensor? There used to be a link on it somewhere (I think on one of the 'how to' conversion pages for a GTI engine) but that's gone now.

Ado

[nicbeer]

I think it bolts to or adapts to the sierra WT speedo head?

Will pm details of motor place when i have secured mine from them.

Nic

[ado250]

Hehe, no worries Nic. I thinkin you either don't want me to snatch the motor out from under you, or you're kind enough to wait and see how your's is before recommending to me! I'm sure it's case 2 mate (otherwise ). Thanks heaps in advance. I will have to look into the speedo thing.

[Damo]

Mating engine to gearbox: It has been said you can weld tabs, but is the Gbox steel or some sort of alloy (requiring tig welding?)? Is it possible just to redrill the bell housing (engine) to line up the Gbox bolts?

There are 4 bolts that hold the transmission and engine block together. For the two top bolts re-use your bolts from the 1300. They are smaller than the 1600 bolts, but simply helicoil the threaded holes in the block and they will go straight in. You can pick up helicoils from any bolt retailer, just take in the 1300 bolt and the 1600 bolt and they will give you the correct size.

The bottom bolts don't line up as easily. Yes you can get tabs welded onto the transmission bellhousing (which by the way is cast aluminium alloy, which would most likely be TIG welded). Mine is done differently, using a tab which is bolted to the transmission, then a bolt goes through the other end of that tab, through a crush tube and into the engine block. I will have to try get a photo of this to make it a bit more clear.

Drivers side engine Mount: Said to be moved forward or back 10mm, how do I acomplish this? Is it as simple as a thick flat plate with holes to remount it in a different posi?

The engine mount comes in three parts. There is the bracket that bolts to the engine block, there is the rubber engine mount, then there is the "W" shaped plate that bolts to the chassis. All I did was drilled a new hole in the engine block bracket behind of the standard position. Then on the "W" shaped plate drill a new hole forward of the standard position. Then bolt the engine mount into the new holes. Actually now that I think of it I can't remember whether this mount goes forward or backward, but you should be able to get the idea

Oil Pan and Pickup Is it possible to use the original vitara oil pan and pickup if I have a 2 inch spring and 1.5 inch shackle lifts? I have a bit more room between the chassis and the axle now.

Sorry can't help with this one, my oil pan was done for me.

Extractors Can I use the original extractors on my sierra (as they are aftermarket, I'd like to keep!) on a G16B Efi head or will I have to get another set of extractors. If I can use them, is it just a matter of setting them higher for the taller block, and how is this done?

The G16b extractors are different, so you wont be able to use the extractors off your 1300. if you can't spring the extra $ for the 1600 extractors just use the factory manifold for the time being.

[ado250]

May have to do the old chop chop on the manifold hey? Not too hard, chop at the single outlet pipe and weld onto the exhaust line. Might need to do some bending for it to clear things in the way.

Mine is done differently, using a tab which is bolted to the transmission, then a bolt goes through the other end of that tab, through a crush tube and into the engine block

Would be a game engineer who approved that one (would be concerns about rotation of the two top bolts). Would love to see a pic of that mate, sounds like a simple solution (as opposed to tig welding). Would it not be possible to drill new engine lower mounting holes? (Just a guess).

It's all starting to come together, Just need to work out how to do the speed sensor conversion on the zuk cluster!! I wonder if one could mount some sort of aftermarket sensor somewhere on the car, which sends electrical signal? That way you could bypass the cluster conversion.

Just a further question: Does the Jimny computer rely on a speed input aswell, or is it specific to the vit/gti? Have been told by others that they haven'y bothered with the speed sensor and it goes fine.

Ado

[Guy]

You guys are talking big variables here.

What carby did you all use?
What type extractors and exhaust system?
Engine Age?

Etc.

It would make sense that the 1.6 would be more powerful than the 1.3 IMO, with all variables being the same. Suggestions of gearing don't seem valid, as zook power drops waaaaaaaaaay before the gears start to limit things (possibly I'm misunderstanding the concept).

Ado

When mine was installed it was as it was pulled from the donor vehicle (from what I could tell it was factory stock 8v carb motor with genie extractors and a 2 inch exhaust that I had on my 1.3), At the same time the motor was installed I also did a spring over, 32's and a series one T/Case (12% lower high range) .. It had heaps more go in it with the 1.6 and 32's than it did with the 1.3 and 235's .. I had no trouble at all sitting on 110+, with far more torque from idle to redline (where it frequently was).
I am pretty certain that the factory acel cable was used and I also made sure that the butterflies in the carb would open 100% of the way .. as for the gear ratios ... they are basically identical between the sierra and vitara give or take 100 or so rpm. (but the vit had 75 profile tyres standard the sierra only had 70's so it was slightly smaller)



I gave it a total hiding for about 65,000kms in that time I rebuilt my old 1.3 head with 1.6 exhaust valves and standard 1.3 intake valves along with a port matched intake and exhaust along with a reground cam.. the seat of the pants dyno said it had a bit more go again and definately had better low end response, but would quickly rev to redlnie without issue.

If you wrere to compare it to my GU with a 4.5 in it .. it had nothing .. if you compared i to a 1.3 .. it was brilliant..