Turbo Diesel vs V8

[mud guts]

I know this probably sounds a bit retarded because the topic below sort of talks about it. I’m not asking which is better, but how you would use the power. I see the patrols 4.2 turbo is getting popular in comps and general, but there is still conversions to V8. Is that because it would be cheaper for V8? Or is it horses for courses, diesel being better in water, and making torque. But the V8 being better in straight out runs in mud, using big RPM’S. So do you look at what you want to do with it, and use the right engine, or do you tune the diesel to work were its needed?

[frp88]

well i think it must be what is your favorite because the 8 days was won by t/d but obc by a v8 so go figure

[beretta]

This is de ja vue! Been having this same discussion with a few dudes after Cliffhanger. I was in a Turbo'd diesle Patrolat Cliffhanger and it hauled ass in the creek in the deep sand. I was navy-ing in a v8 Patrol and I would say it would have been fairly even in the sand I think. The deisel did well in the sand because of the torque, you could just feel it come on so strong as the boost came on, whereas the V8 worked better up in the rev range and was all numbers but good nonetheless.

I am torn at the moment, I am looking at $4kish for the turbo set up I would ideally like, for that I can buy a vh45 front cut and have $1k left over to spend on bits, so it comes back to tastes and use. I would like to stay with deisel if it was going swimming, but the V8's just rock (but don't like taking a dip).

Buggered if I know, I can't make up my mind, but somethings gotta change I'm sick of driving a slug!

My 2c worth anyway

[mud guts]

Yeah that’s what I mean, you have loads of torque, but from what if seen with diesel you end up looking for another gear very quickly and hoping you don’t come of boost, but the V8 can have a wider power curve, and loves to sing. The reason I ask is I’m keen to go for more power, maybe in a new rig, and thinking which sort of power best suits me.(more the merrier) Is it just the cost of getting a diesel to work balking me?

[matthewK]

you could also look at the
chevy 6.5L and the 7L v8 diesel

[SLOGQ]

I have a EFI holden V8 in my GQ, and i love it. I can drive past Turbo diesel patrols in 3rd gear in soft sand while they just manage to pull 2nd. The fuel ecomomy is s&*thouse, but they are still makin petrol so it dosent worry me......

Off road in the bush it is realy good to, heaps of torque once its on song.

The only place where i think a diesel is better is engine braking, but it hasnt been an issue in my truck yet.

But if chev V8 diesels were a bit cheaper i would have gone for one of them over a petrol one any day......

[beretta]

Yeah with the turbo diesel you've gotta drive em up on boost all the time or they loose the grunt, bit like driving a truck. With the V8 just nail it and they go instantly most of the time. My mate has got the neatest VH45 conversion, but he's an awesome spanner man, every time I see his truck I want that same set up! If I was purely doing dry comps I would go the V8, but the thought of going for a dip with the V8 scares me a bit, I've drowned a truck before and it sucks arse!

[-Scott-]

I know this probably sounds a bit retarded because the topic below sort of talks about it. I’m not asking which is better, but how you would use the power. I see the patrols 4.2 turbo is getting popular in comps and general, but there is still conversions to V8. Is that because it would be cheaper for V8? Or is it horses for courses, diesel being better in water, and making torque. But the V8 being better in straight out runs in mud, using big RPM’S. So do you look at what you want to do with it, and use the right engine, or do you tune the diesel to work were its needed?

I think you've pretty much got it from the start.

Diesels are fabulous for low down torque, but don't rev well enough to compete with (petrol) V8's for top end power. I imagine the big attraction for this sort of work is lack of electrics to bugger up.

I think it will always be a "horses for courses" argument, and for every example favouring one, there will be another example favouring the other.

Do what YOU want to do, because it will be easier for you to live with any consequences.

[beretta]

[quote="-Scott
Diesels are fabulous for low down torque, but don't rev well enough to compete with (petrol) V8's for top end power.[/quote]

I agree on the horses for courses, but a well set up turbo'd Deisel can mix it with the V8's no probs, they only work well when the dude dishing out the power knows what they're doin though At Cliffhanger I saw a dude in a stock TD42 turbo'd do a 7.22min creek run and then watched a V8 do it in 8mins, admittedly the TD42 blew two heater hoses off when it stopped in the finish box, but the point is it's the way you drive it, turbo deisels have to be driven on boost to get good perfomrance and consistent throttle control to keep em jammin.

But as you said horses for courses and it's an individual choice, one set up will suit me but won't suit the next dude.

[chunderlicious]

one thing people are missing here is that the car that won the 8 day had 30 grand worth of custom engine. where as the V8 that won outback was nearly standard. It all comes down to what you want to hear out the back when you push the loud pedal

[kirragc]

whos V8 are we talking about here?

[vn15]

one thing people are missing here is that the car that won the 8 day had 30 grand worth of custom engine. where as the V8 that won outback was nearly standard. It all comes down to what you want to hear out the back when you push the loud pedal

Just from reading mags, the truck that won OBC(Rohan Canavan) is far from std. engine wise, supercharged gen3, the 2nd. placed truck( Cass Jones) has a 6.0l V8 with std. internals apart from the cam, larger injectors, Autronic SM4 computer and a Bosch044 fuel pump. Std. manifolds and 4" intake.

[chunderlicious]

which compared to kyms patrol are minimal...... his car is pushing out around 250 kw (might be HP not sure) at the wheels. thats huge, and sorry thought cass won, dont really follow winners that closely just the comps. that isnt much mods for an 8. other than the autronic it wouldnt even be $5G.

[mud guts]

I thought this was going to put the cat in the pigeons, but just seeing the amount of turbo diesels out there, I’m still wondering what all the hypes about, even thought about going that way because of the numbers. There’s got to be more to it than being able to take your toy in the bath with you, and the torque. Its not a cheap engine to do up, you have to drive it a certain way. I don’t know, I’m probably just barking at shadows.

[chunderlicious]

alot of people think that petrol is shit in water, i would like to know why? ive never seen a car drown "worse" because it was petrol or diesel if it fills with water that is it its full, i understand the whole dizzy thing, but shit wd40 works wonders.

sorry for the highjack

[Big Red Toy]

I've had both!!!

Personally i'm prefering the turbo diesel... less hassles & more torque

I currently have a GQ running ~ 12psi Turbo diesel & is nice

I have had a shorty with a 350 chev running gas research

But then again if the V8 is well built then no worries, if your going the V8 make sure the dizzy is at the back like the chevs

[beretta]

I can tell you from experience that Deisels drown much worse than Petrols due to compression (as in do much more damage if they hydraulic), it just takes a little longer to get the water into them cos the electricals don't give out first, I drowned my bosses 70 series ute when I was 17

[AussieGQ]

I dunked the bottom end of a 351 that was in a bedford after a highway drive and it warped block enough to split a bore
Instant loss of compression, lots of noise and lots of smoke

Saying that however, I have videos of people in the US with their big V8 powered buggies skimming across water.
If the price of gas hadn't risen so much over the years and it was available in more places, I would go a V8 in my GQ!
But in this day i'm going a TD42T.

[weeman]

one thing people are missing here is that the car that won the 8 day had 30 grand worth of custom engine. where as the V8 that won outback was nearly standard. It all comes down to what you want to hear out the back when you push the loud pedal

Rohan truck aint standard and cass motor aint that standard either as well.

Cass motor is worth around $15,00

Rohan motor is in excess of 20,000 and his new motor is even more.

Kym truck motor is over priced you dont need to spend that much on a diesel now the reason why kym is more 30k is because of the R&D that was put into it.

Chunk in melbourne would have an 80 - 90 k motor if that was the case.

Both rohan and cass wanted a motor that had low down torque as for the outback you need the horsepower down low to spin the wheel either to get the mud off or to drive in the sand. But like with both of there motors there were alot of teething problems and its not untill now that rohan has switched to a re-worked 6L his truck is being more reliable.

In regard to the VH45 yeap they are cheap mate chucked one in his GQ middy and yeap done motor replaced with another however no reliablity there what so ever, the second motor didnt last that long and during the 1st stage of the outback spun a bearing sorry game over and with that motor you cannot get parts that easy. This time he's spent in excess on 9k on the motor hopefully getting it to be reliable, mind you he also has 3k motec setup as well.

So in theory there is no point doing a 3k event if your motor shits itself at the start.

For reliable horspower and without to much fucking around a diesel thats in good condition with an intercooler and a good turbo will be far more reliable than a v8, due to the complexity's of wiring fuel pumps. And yes i do believe V8 do work well in water once they get coil packs put on but you do need to spend the money on a V8 to get them moving and be reliable.

[mud guts]

If the price of gas hadn't risen so much over the years and it was available in more places, I would go a V8 in my GQ!
But in this day i'm going a TD42T.

But you could spend a load of cash to make the TD42T spin? Not having at go you.

Does the V8 diesel spin better or do you still rely on a turbo to make grunt, or is it still the heavy componentry that’s going to slow it down? Eg pistons, crank.

For reliable horspower and without to much ***** around a diesel thats in good condition with an intercooler and a good turbo will be far more reliable than a v8, due to the complexity's of wiring fuel pumps. And yes i do believe V8 do work well in water once they get coil packs put on but you do need to spend the money on a V8 to get them moving and be reliable.

So which is it?
weeman I’m not trying to tow 100,000 ton across the Nullabor.

A Huh yep i'm still listening.

[weeman]

well i'm a diesel fan,

And you can get a high performance diesel for under 10k....

Depends what your wanting to use it for, speak to a person who was in the outback with the new 6L motor and its already got a knock in it and only done one event the V8's just dont last but they do perform. For reliabilty a diesel is still better in my opionion and with few others i know. The main problem with the diesel is not enough low down torque till the turbo kicks in.

[chunderlicious]

yet tuff355 off the forum has done 2 8 days, and 2 seasons of xwcs and his chev crate motor is going great still.

i like diesel, i like petrol, i dont care what i have as in the end both engines are the same. it might be easier to tow with one it might have better fuel economy on another......

turbo diesel will generally produce more torque(matching cube for cube) yet V8 will have more power. TD42T sounds very very nice with a 3 inch exhaust. A 253 with a 3 inch exhausts sounds awsome too (even though there crap for the noise they make).

[mistaboz]

Anyone twin turboed a TD42T?
Having a smaller turbo to build up the boost down low (spools up quicker), and a bigger turbo for above 1500 RPM?
Just a thought?

[badger]

i have been considering it mistaboz, as my turbo is looking towards retirement (done 340kms tho)

my main issue is how long will a deisel last under these conditions compared to the petrol?

i have a deisel and love it. but im worried that if i boost it up and then dirve it hard the mighty td42's long life span could be shortened to much to make it viable.
mate of mine had a worked td42 in his comp truck till it popped ran 20psi all day everyday had a huge cam and pump mods, reved to 6k and had absolute bulsh1t power. but it lasted 10000kms.
i dont want this much power but if i cant get atleast 100000 between rebuilds i dont see it to be viable prospet over a v8

whats people experiances with this life span of these motors once they get up to these levels of power and abuse?

[zagan]

The only other thing I can think of is LPG, can be setup easy for the V8.

No idea about a diesel... as I didn't think you could do that but you can if you wanted.

I would go for a turbo diesel myself I'm quite supprised at how well it goes in the sand, no dramas etc just don't do anything to get yourself stuck

plus it uses F...all Diesel in the sand, and that's driving around in the sand for 2-3 hours straight, at 1500 - 2000rpm, I was thinking it would have chewed up heaps but ends up being stiff all really.

I would hate to see a petrol engine deal with the sand and try to use bugger all fuel, I just couldn't see it happening as you'd be way up in the revs.

[cloughy]

I've had both!!!

Personally i'm prefering the turbo diesel... less hassles & more torque

I currently have a GQ running ~ 12psi Turbo diesel & is nice

I have had a shorty with a 350 chev running gas research

But then again if the V8 is well built then no worries, if your going the V8 make sure the dizzy is at the back like the chevs

If your talking about the same shite box i seen on a navrun, it missing and smoking and couldn't get up that girly hill, i'd like diesel to

[mud guts]

Maybe there might be a diesel in my driveway after all. Just need to find more damm money

[V8Patrol]

I've pulled diesels out and replaced em with V8's........





I've NEVER pulled a V8 out to replace it with a diesel.......




I wonder why


Could the reason be ......

V8's are cheaper than diesels to buy

V8's are cheaper to fit

V8's can be built to pull down low or scream their tits off !

V8's come in a bigger range of capacities,

V8 parts are cheaper and more available,

V8's can run sole petrol or sole lpg or be duel fuel, diesels ... well lpg fumigation may help with the fuel costs but thats about it !


Add in another 100 odd reasons as to why peolpe go with the V8 if I had time, then finish it off with .......

& Nothing ..... I repeat NOTHING sounds better than a V8


Kingy

p/s
If V8 or V10 diesels were as cheap as a GEN III / LS1 and one could get a gearbox that had a couple of additional gears to suit the limited rev range of a diesel then "maybe" ....... just maybe, a diesel might be worth looking into.

Until that happens remember the old saying.....
Nothing beats cubes

[Reddo]

yep there's no subs for cubs

[mud guts]

I like what I’m reading V8Patrol, I can’t understand what the prob of spending similar money that gets spent on diesels on a good 8. Balanced, blueprint, and a good cam with dyno time, BINGO!!!