Will I hate it if I take off the turbo? - She's home

[Ezookiel]

You all know the cooling issues I've had with the Patrol.
And the fact that I never got the fuelling issue dealt with cause Qbn Diesel have handed it back to QIM who recoed the engine and replaced the head, for another look because it is superpressurising the radiator and blowing all the water out the recovery tank.

Back when QIM first did the reco they found the water coming from the turbo to be over 80 degrees.
Qbn Diesel got the car already warmed up after the drive to Qbn, took it for a run up the nearby hill and found the water coming from the turbo is actually coming out at 100+ degrees.

Given a long 40 minute climb with turbo on full boost the whole way, and that 100+ degrees has to be putting one hell of a strain on the cooling system.

I'm so F'in p'd off with this whole damn thing I'm within a whisker of saying pull the mongrel off.

I'm not able to make that call yet till I know what first QIM find, and then what Qbn Diesel find when they finally get it back from QIM, but it's certainly an option to be weighed up while those two play around with it.

At 40+ years old, I no longer care how fast I get somewhere, just so long as my car can get me there at all - which at the moment it can't.
But will I be able to live with a NON turbo diesel GQ or will it drive me insane?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
Zook

[Patchy]

if thats the problem and your cooling system isnt up to the just just upgrade the cooling syatem. sounds like its been alot of work to just throw in the towl

[pongo]

I hope QIM have givin you a good run, He is a great bloke who always helped me out with the little things and quickly as well.

If i had to get any head wok done, id send it straight to him and i live a few hours away. I fhe cant find something, it doesnt exist anymore

You must be getting close to getting it sorted

[KaMo]

Do you have a pyro? If so what sort of EGT's are you running?

[jtraf]

non-turbo GQ Auto which I think yours may be........don't do it I didn't have a turbo for a year when I first bought mine and I have to say that the turbo has made it a whole new car.......

before the turbo I seriously considered selling it off but now no way.......

have you thought about changing the engine fan for AU thermo fan setup.......

Also if you are concerned about temps install a pyro gauge and vdo water temp gauge to see what is really happening.......

If you are boiling after a rebuild I am sorry but no matter how good they supposed to be they F#$%ed it up and I would be telling them to fix it........ even the best people in the industry have things go astry.....

[Bingham]

i would suggest you wouldnt learn to crawl again over walking...... slow and tedious

[JWB]

Don't do it
You will hate the thing
I remember when mine was NA
Trying to wind it up to pass a road train @ 110 coming back from a high country trip years ago.
It took me about k to inch pass him!
you must be getting close to the cause

[Ezookiel]

QIM have been very good, but the fact that the engine is now pressurising the radiator to that extent smacks of something not being right with the head which was just replaced.

I can't upgrade the cooling system much further, I've gone to a new 4 core radiator a thermo etc

Is it normal for a turbo to run the water at that temperature?
Maybe something isn't right in the turbo itself?
Who would you go to in Canberra to get a turbo itself looked at?

And thanks everyone, I was pretty sure I'd hate it without a turbo.
But I just want a car that I can trust to actually get me whereever I'm going - even if that's just to work. I was trying to convince myself that slow is better than not getting there at all, but I knew it wasn't the solution.

[ferret]

It's normal for water temps coming out of the turbo to be quite high due to the temp that the turbo runs at, exhaust gas straight form the head + big rpms = HOT.
It shouldn't be putting too much load on the cooling system though due to the amount of water coming from the turbo being a fairly small percentage of the total cooling system capacity.
If the radiator is becoming pressurised after a run on boost, the first things I'd be looking for are either a cracked head or a crook gasket. If they both check out ok, then I'd be checking to see if there are water cooling lines running through the inlet manifold, and if so, start checking for cracks there and so on. Anywhere that a cooling passage runs close to something that has compression or boost. Good luck, and I hope you get it sorted.

[jessie928]

man you either have a ROOTED head or a crack in your block.
its irrelevant that its just been fixed, they may have buggered it up ( hapens alot) or something else was the problem, or both.

get the engine pulled down and insspected and you will find the problem. I woudl FIRST start with getting the turbo itself inspected..

Jes

[bogged]

Given a long 40 minute climb with turbo on full boost the whole way,

are u driving up Mt Everest? 40 mins at full boost?

[Ezookiel]

OK, QIM rang and said they've pulled it all apart and had a good look at it, and said they've found the turbo has blown through the gasket and reckons it's the darndest thing he's ever seen. He has the gasket there and wants me to drop by to take a look at it, cause he's never seen them do that before. He feels that 9psi is too much??? That last bit is ridiculous. People run way more boost than 9psi, but he feels we should drop it to the psi used by the factory when they put turbos on (4 or 5???).

He also has to pull the bottom off because there is some marking on one of the pistons that he doesn't know the cause of. Considering he replaced all the pistons I'd be pretty sure it isn't the engine's or turbos fault there.

Isn't there a specific "thickness" of gasket you're meant to use and if it's not the right one causes issues? Or am I misremembering something read somewhere else. IIRC doesn't it cause pressure issues similar to shaving the head too much?

Man I hate not knowing whether what mechanics tell me is true or not.
If I didn't work full time, I'd go do a course of some sort.
Might still anyway.

[Ezookiel]

Given a long 40 minute climb with turbo on full boost the whole way,

are u driving up Mt Everest? 40 mins at full boost?

Well, not maybe not for the FULL 40 minutes, but climbing up out of Lowell's Flat, or Bendethera etc can be a long 30 - 40 minute climb with little time in between to ease off.

[jessie928]

OK, QIM rang and said they've pulled it all apart and had a good look at it, and said they've found the turbo has blown through the gasket and reckons it's the darndest thing he's ever seen. He has the gasket there and wants me to drop by to take a look at it, cause he's never seen them do that before. He feels that 9psi is too much??? That last bit is ridiculous. People run way more boost than 9psi, but he feels we should drop it to the psi used by the factory when they put turbos on (4 or 5???).

He also has to pull the bottom off because there is some marking on one of the pistons that he doesn't know the cause of. Considering he replaced all the pistons I'd be pretty sure it isn't the engine's or turbos fault there.

Isn't there a specific "thickness" of gasket you're meant to use and if it's not the right one causes issues? Or am I misremembering something read somewhere else. IIRC doesn't it cause pressure issues similar to shaving the head too much?

Man I hate not knowing whether what mechanics tell me is true or not.
If I didn't work full time, I'd go do a course of some sort.
Might still anyway.

9psi is nothing. he will try his best to get out of paying for the problem.
dont bend over in front of him, otherwise you will be in for a nasty suprise.

[bogged]

He feels that 9psi is too much??? That last bit is ridiculous.

Its the factory Nissan Turbo? Or aftermarket? Was this recently fitted or old? Maybe it is due for a rebuild.

9psi is about the pressure you piss at.. any aftermarket snail sold to run on a 4.2 should handle 14psi on its arse.

Jes said it, dont bend over.

[blackmav]

I run 14psi.GQ td42 3 core radiator. Standard viscous coupled fan. Gets hotter on long uphill climbs.110kmh plus. But i just back off to 10 and it cools down.
If he is saying that you cant run 9 safely he dosn't know what he is on about.

[wrksux]

Mate if it was rebuilt and still has issues someone has buggerd it up.

anything wrong with a new (rebuilt) motor is there fault, cracks, heads, damaged pistons is due to something they have done.

[JemmyBubbles]

I know this has been a really ongoing thing for you and you have probably already been told something along these lines, but I just want you to know that the nissan temperature gauge can be really oversensitive.

I have a turbo gq shorty diesel running a bit over 12 psi and I like teh power it has, and would never go back to a NA td42.

On a long climb the temperature will jump from under a quater to 3/4 and sometimes over, it never reaches the H mark though. I was a little worried at first, yet after speaking to a few people namely bazzle I found that is normal. The move from 1/4 the 3/4 doesn't actually account for a large change in temperature at all like maybe 14 - 18 degreees. Once you are done with climbing it goes back to under 1/4.

I know you've probably entertained this possibility and you actually have real overheating dramas... but just so you are aware.. this is my 20c.

[bazzle]

9lbs is only the air.
It depends on how much fuel is run with this at max boost / full throttle that increases combustion temp and pressure. You MUST get an EGT fitted and drive on that what ever the fuelling or turbo boost is set at.

I would expect you to back off at about 500c after turbo and hold at max 450 on a really long climb.

Sometimes you have to slow down. Truckies I know drive on the EGT all the time for longevity / temp reasons.

If an auto heat from the trans also causes temp increases, esp under load.
A few co's make kits to fix trans heat in different ways, band pressure, inline coolers, convertor slip etc....

Bazzle

[Suspension Stuff]

As others have said is would be wise to fit a Pyro and drive to that. For that length of time at full boost or near full boost I think nearly everyone's turbo diesel would overheat as it probably is overfuelling when the pedal is to the metal. The unburnt part makes it very hot. Or maybe this isn't the prob, keep us informed on what the solution is.

Ezookiel wrote:

I'm so F'in p'd off with this whole damn thing I'm within a whisker of saying pull the mongrel off.

If you want a car then you will have probs, try taking a few deep breaths and keep emptying your wallet as we all do. p.s. crying helps.

All the best
Shane

[Ezookiel]

Thanks peoples, based on your information, Pyros, EGT gauges, fuelling, and turbo servicing are the next set of attempts to solve this. All good advice I will follow up as soon as money allows.

Thanks guys, without feedback from you lot, I'd be at the mercy of whatever they want to tell me.

Will bore you all further with the result when I know what QIM have found, and those things above have been done.

Thanks again.

[Ezookiel]

QIM did the whole job under warranty without even hinting at me paying for it.
He was sure right about the gasket. Lovely pretty swirly patterns of carbon from under the precombustion chambers across the gasket on all the cylinders.
And he'd changed his tune about the 9psi on the turbo being too much. Which is just as well as I was going to politely tell him I Pee at more the 9psi, so would expect a headgasket to handle slightly more than that.

She runs between 25% on long downhill sections and 55 - 60% on small uphill sections at present. But I've been too sh1t scared to push it much at all. Especially as I had the aircon on because it's a tad warm today.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Now where do I go to get a pyro or egt gauge put on (or are they the same thing)

[bogged]

Now where do I go to get a pyro or egt gauge put on (or are they the same thing)

EGT and Boost you want.
VDO are kewl, get em at Repco etc...

http://www.gqpatrol.com/crapola/dashpod.jpg

[dumbdunce]

...
She runs between 25% on long downhill sections and 55 - 60% on small uphill sections...

are you talking about the factory temp gauge? that should almost never move - if your cooling system is good, and it should be considereing what you've pumped into it, then it should cope with boost and a hot day and air cond without wavering. The cooling system has a thermostat to keep the coolant as close to a constant temperature as possible. it should only go above that temp on a very hot day, working very hard. for example on my 80 series, I can drive it hard in soft sand on a 35C day and have exhaust temps hitting 650C without the temp gauge needle even fluctuating from the 'normal' position.

re your super hot water coming off the turbo, if it's getting over 110 EVER then the turbo isn't getting enough water flow. there might be someting blocking it or it might be a design issue if it's an aftermarket/custom turbo setup.

re gauges, you don't really *need* to buy a pyro or a boost gauge, but they are cool toys to have. that said, whoever is tuning your engine MUST use both to ensure your engine is tuned for maximum power and safe operating parameters. also a good idea for tuning is an inlet air temp gauge to see how hot the air is coming off the turbo - if the inlet air is hot, you will have abnormally high combustion temperatures with poor power/economy and a LOT of heat getting into the cooling system. This most often hapens when ricers fit 'performance' air filters that suck a lot of hot air from the engine bay. It can also happen if you have a snorkel that doesn't flow enough air for the engine and makes the turbo work very hard.

hope you get it sorted out.

cheers
DD

[ozy1]

on my LWB patrol, TD42, with aftermarket DTS turbo kit, i have just found, that i removed the large air cleaner housing, and fitted a pod filter, it sits just befing the radiator, gettin hot air directly from it, it now runs cooler than it did before, so im guessing with the DTS kit, their intake/filtration piping is too long, i am gunna build a custom stainless housing, so i can connect me snorkel back up and also add my newly purchased Water to air intercooler kit,

[dumbdunce]

on my LWB patrol, TD42, with aftermarket DTS turbo kit, i have just found, that i removed the large air cleaner housing, and fitted a pod filter, it sits just befing the radiator, gettin hot air directly from it, it now runs cooler than it did before, so im guessing with the DTS kit, their intake/filtration piping is too long, i am gunna build a custom stainless housing, so i can connect me snorkel back up and also add my newly purchased Water to air intercooler kit,

Gday ozy!

what filter were you running before you changed to the pod?

[Ezookiel]

Now where do I go to get a pyro or egt gauge put on (or are they the same thing)

EGT and Boost you want.

I have the boost gauge, but will have to move it, it's down where the swaybar disconnect is, and bloody impossible to see down there.
The EGT is what people are recommending, but who would you get to connect it up. Is it something anyone can do, or an auto electrician, or a mechanic.

[chunderlicious]

is your turbo aftermarket? on the dump pipe of most not all turbo kits there is a bolt going into the exhaust that is where it is fitted

[Beastmavster]

Egt is just basically a thermometer for the exhaust with a wire running to the guage on the dash. No harder than wiring up a tacho, in fact substantially easier.

However, fitting the sensor to your exhaust needs drilling/tapping/welding so unless you can do that bit take it to a muffler place for that bit.

[ozy1]

on my LWB patrol, TD42, with aftermarket DTS turbo kit, i have just found, that i removed the large air cleaner housing, and fitted a pod filter, it sits just befing the radiator, gettin hot air directly from it, it now runs cooler than it did before, so im guessing with the DTS kit, their intake/filtration piping is too long, i am gunna build a custom stainless housing, so i can connect me snorkel back up and also add my newly purchased Water to air intercooler kit,

Gday ozy!

what filter were you running before you changed to the pod?

Was running a K&N the same size and shape as the factory filter, in the supplied cast air cleaner housing,