Vitara Brake Boosters and Master Cylinders

[A1]

I'm havin a few brake issues with the Vit with the 60 series cruiser diffs front and rear and what makes it worse now that I have converted the rear to disc's aswell ......

Im not sure and no I didnt even SEARCH ..... what is compatible to fit up to the Vit booster (master cylinder ) that will give me a larger bore is there a straight bolt fittment of another model (I know that there is with the sierra's not sure if the Vit boosters are the same ....

And is there a Booster that will bolt up or with slight mods .....

I'm no brake guru so BE NICE



cheers


Dan

[A1]

Any1 ??? any ideas

[sierrajim]

80 series master and booster. Already designed for 4 wheel disc brakes, this will save you lots of stuffing around tuning in your brakes.

[A1]

I was hoping to get something that will do the job with out the need for a full refit ......although does anyone know what master cylinder size the XL7's have I may be able to get one off Huggy let alone the booster if it equates to more pressure ? and it fits ....

The prob at the moment that I would like to stay away from is having to modify the inner guard as the stock booster is up against it now ....?? maybe the master cylinder we'll help if the bore is larger


Thanks for your input sierrajim , this will be last resort....


cheers


Dan

[droopypete]

Mate, I am not a brake expert either, but bigger bore may not necessarily mean more pressure, maybe just more displacement, going larger bore may exacerbate your problems, seek expert advice.
Peter.

PS, then again I may be full of shyte

[sierrajim]

Just checked my Hilux master it's 210mm in diameter into which an 80 series master will fit.

210mm shouldn't be much bigger than the Vit booster if at all. I'm unsure as to the diameter of an 80 series booster.

[redzook]

was out bens the other day and i noticed sierra master cylinders have bigger bore then hiluxes

have you just not got air in your lines?

[suz_rolly]

the vitara master should be fine

what is the problem

PM mark [mud4b] he has done conversions before with standard boosters

[A1]

Just checked my Hilux master it's 210mm in diameter into which an 80 series master will fit.

210mm shouldn't be much bigger than the Vit booster if at all. I'm unsure as to the diameter of an 80 series booster.

thanks Jim

I'll sus it out whn I get back to wrk

[A1]

was out bens the other day and i noticed sierra master cylinders have bigger bore then hiluxes

have you just not got air in your lines?

mmm I have bled them a few times already ......who know's maybe ?


thats seirra's are Vits the same ??? I will check to see if anything is stamped on it


cheers dude

[A1]

the vitara master should be fine

what is the problem

PM mark [mud4b] he has done conversions before with standard boosters

the problem I have a pedal but it seems it needs more pressure ....It feels like im on the pedal that hard that I'll brake it ( oops pun ) ......

If in low /low (auto) It will over power the brakes just off idle I cant even stop it when its cold and the auto choke is on when in low


Dan


EDIT just checked the master its a 7/8 bore ......rough booster diam bout 215-220 but its only narrow to fit where it does

[sierrajim]

the vitara master should be fine

what is the problem

PM mark [mud4b] he has done conversions before with standard boosters

the problem I have a pedal but it seems it needs more pressure ....It feels like im on the pedal that hard that I'll brake it ( oops pun ) ......

If in low /low (auto) It will over power the brakes just off idle I cant even stop it when its cold and the auto choke is on when in low


Dan


EDIT just checked the master its a 7/8 bore ......rough booster diam bout 215-220 but its only narrow to fit where it does

Does it get any better with a couple of pumps?

Is the pedal still high enough when you brake?

Are you sure that the booster is actually working? Sounds like it may not be.

[ljxtreem]

I think an MQ/GQ is a straight bolt in
Had one in my old zook, worth a look

This had come up b4 with sierras, and I remember the GQ one not fitting in a sierra, but a vitara it does.
Dont know about fitting the booster in there with an inner guard, but the bolt holes line up.


Mock

[sierrajim]

My original 1.0ltr (non boosted) needed some mods with the die grinder and a couple of extra holes to fit the MQ booster. Pretty easy job though.

[redzook]

My original 1.0ltr (non boosted) needed some mods with the die grinder and a couple of extra holes to fit the MQ booster. Pretty easy job though.

just curious how u ran the booster
on an an angle or spaced out from the firewall?

as the steering coloumn ran straight below the master cyl on mine?

[sierrajim]

My original 1.0ltr (non boosted) needed some mods with the die grinder and a couple of extra holes to fit the MQ booster. Pretty easy job though.

just curious how u ran the booster
on an an angle or spaced out from the firewall?

as the steering coloumn ran straight below the master cyl on mine?

The steering shaft was in the way, i extended the splines on the firewall end to space the uni joint out providing just enough clearance.

The spline extension was obtained from an old steering box that i had then welded and sleaved over the column.

[A1]

Does it get any better with a couple of pumps?

Is the pedal still high enough when you brake?

Are you sure that the booster is actually working? Sounds like it may not be.[/quote]


No doesnt really seem to .....

Yes its doesnt seem to be to low still a fair way off the floor ....

Yes I think so when you kick the car over the pedal sinks slightly .....

now I'm going to bleed the brakes again and see if that makes any difference ....

But from this morning I have on part loan (unless it will wrk ) a XL7 booster and master ( Thanks to Huggy off the board) ..now to look at the master it looks like it will have a larger bore ...but this may be all the casting (unsure) it doesnt say anywhere what size it is other than 52d20 on the end of the master .....the booster looks deeper than the mine by about 30 or so mm but the same or roughly the same O/D ....

The only issue is that this booster came from the XL7 which had ABS now thats all been removed ...will this still function as a normal booster master setup ???

And hey stop hijacking my thread TIMMY


Dan

[hypo]

If worst comes to worst Dan take the booster to a brake place and get it checked and rebuild to allow more pressure, it can be done as i was going to do that in my old junk.. i upgraded the master cyl but still kept stock booster, pedal was hard and the brake place said to rebuild the booster...

[A1]

I'll kep it mind dude cheers

Well I bled the brakes again tonight ....and bled another bleeder that I left out before I'm not sure if it has changed the brakes yet as at this time of the night ....mmm morning its a wee bit loud for testing ...I didnt bleed the brake bias valve ( stock) last time ...didnt really think I would have too ....and wasnt expecting anything other than clean fluid didnt notice any air ( in any of the lines for that matter) but out of this valve came old fluid ........so who knows I will test maybe 2morra to see if there any better .......


D

[A1]

Brakes are no better ....I've asked the question on Pirate aswell as I knew there was a heap of them that have a similar setup .....HCGALVIN off the board has 80 series diffs with no issues .......but I'm also not sure whether the 80 series have 4 spot rear.......


I still havent done anything with the XL7 booster .....but I also have a 100 series cruiser booster and master cylinder....But they only have a 13/16 master which is smaller than what I run now but the MC is also alot longer which I assume would give more fluid flow when the pedal is pushed .......

The cruiser setup will be a bit of a pita to fit but still acheiveable .....Im not sure if the 80 series mc's are the same as the 100's ....but I do know that they fit the 80 series mc to the LUX booster which from going above off sierrajims measurements is about the same size as the Vit ...where the cruiser is 250mm across ....and means more cutty cutty of the inner guard ......

decisions decisions



DOES ANY 1 Know if there are any other mc's that will fit the vit booster ......


cheers


Dan

[droopypete]

Brakes are no better

.But they only have a 13/16 master which is smaller than what I run now



Dan

[A1]

Mate, I am not a brake expert either, but bigger bore may not necessarily mean more pressure, maybe just more displacement, going larger bore may exacerbate your problems, seek expert advice.
Peter.

your refeering to this I assume Peter .....I have seeked some expert advice which I will receive more of tomorrow ........was hoping that maybe some1 that hasnt seen the thread may be-able to help with there experience ......

your comment has been taken on board



Dan

[cj]

If I recall correctly, there was a thread on Pirate sometime back mentioning that the '93 Mazda 929 3.0 V6 with 4 wheel discs and ABS used a 1" bore master and was a bolt on to the Sierra booster as well as having the right fittings. The plunger into the booster needed trimming by 1/4" but that was about all I think. Might be worth a look.

[A1]

If I recall correctly, there was a thread on Pirate sometime back mentioning that the '93 Mazda 929 3.0 V6 with 4 wheel discs and ABS used a 1" bore master and was a bolt on to the Sierra booster as well as having the right fittings. The plunger into the booster needed trimming by 1/4" but that was about all I think. Might be worth a look.

Yeah I have heard of that before but couldnt find any info if the sierra/vitara boosters have the bolt pattern ......


Ive posted a similar thread in the TOY section on outers and it seems as though the bigger booster /MC combo may be the best option ......but if anyone has any hands on experience or info dont hold back


cheers cj




Dan

[simcoz]

Just wondering if you fixed this problem as i have a similar problem on my sierra,but my peddle goes to the floor,even after bleeding 2 bottles of fluid though the system.
Wasn't to bad with drums on the rear but now with discs allround with 4 pot callipers it's sh#t

Cheers Coza

[A1]

Mate

I ended up using a TOYOTA SURF BOOSTER and a 45 series MC ...still not the best but it stops but with the reduction I can easily drive through it ..on or just off idle in LOW ...so I will look at this again perhaps but it seems OK just for now the pedal is hard and doesnt go any where near the floor ......


So in short not totally sorted but just acceptable


Dan

[11_evl]

Just wondering if you fixed this problem as i have a similar problem on my sierra,but my peddle goes to the floor,even after bleeding 2 bottles of fluid though the system.
Wasn't to bad with drums on the rear but now with discs allround with 4 pot callipers it's sh#t

Cheers Coza

what setup are you running?? diffs brakes?

[simcoz]

Just wondering if you fixed this problem as i have a similar problem on my sierra,but my peddle goes to the floor,even after bleeding 2 bottles of fluid though the system.
Wasn't to bad with drums on the rear but now with discs allround with 4 pot callipers it's sh#t

Cheers Coza

what setup are you running?? diffs brakes?

45# diffs,std vented rotors and calipers front,hilux front solid rotors and calipers on the rear,still have std sierra booster & master cylinder.

[BP]

You actually need a smaller bore size master cylinder to get more pressure to the calipers.This will make the pedal travel further down to the floor but it will greatly increase your stopping power!

[scooby_74]

not sure buti know alot of people use 85 to 91 magna master cyl on performance vehicles due to its size, been told it supplys great pressure.

other item to check is the check valve on the vacume line to the booster, make sure it is working correctly, seen them blocked before.