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80Series Diff Ratio's?
Moderators: toaddog, Elmo, DUDELUX
80Series Diff Ratio's?
I own a 4.5L Petrol 80Series Landcruiser. Have just purchased front and rear ARB air lockers and in the very near future plan on getting 35 pedes. Will I need to change my diff ratio's to run 35's because i don't really want to have to pull everything apart again next month. Thanks.
T.L. 93 80 4.5 GXL Man
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
I think transfer gears are the better option and will be getting some for my 80 very soon as the 36" rubber is a bit too big for the standard gearing. By using transfer gears you dont alter the high range ratio so it doesn't matter what size tyres you run for the street. But if you go say 4:88 diff gears then you'll have to constantly run 35's or it'll be revving the ringer out of it.
i dont think there is a great deal of ratios avalible for 80's the only ones i know of are 4.88's,
which if u put 4.88's in u can run 38's and that gives u ur std gearing back..
so as RV said it would be reving its ringer out if u did that..
the better option if u are only goin 35's is tranfers gears i reckon..
but i ran 35's for a couple of years on std gearin and it was pretty good.. i would say that unless u are doin rock hopping it should be fine.
which if u put 4.88's in u can run 38's and that gives u ur std gearing back..
so as RV said it would be reving its ringer out if u did that..
the better option if u are only goin 35's is tranfers gears i reckon..
but i ran 35's for a couple of years on std gearin and it was pretty good.. i would say that unless u are doin rock hopping it should be fine.
Im here for the sausage!
you can get: 3.7:1, 3.9:1, 4.1:1, 4.3:1, 4.56:1, 4.88:1, 5.3:1, 5.7:1 diff gears front and rear for 80 series, there may also be other ratios.
HOWEVER most people with 80's and running 35's have no need to change the gearing, the low range is quite low and the engines all have a fair amount of torque even at low rpm. unless you're ian insane rock-crawing nut (in which case 35's are never going to be enough anyway) then you will be satisfied with the stock gearing and 35's.
as for the cost/benefit of diff gears over transfer gears- first I am surprised at the cost of low range gears frot he 80 since the kit is essentially 2 gears and an instruction booklet - I would check with BBMRick to get a real price. Second, regearing diffs will cost at least $1000/end, drive in, drive out, or at least $850/end if you pull the diffs out yourself. this will cost extra if you are having ar lockers installed at the same time. (of course if you are only having lockers installed you're still up for around $200/end for installation, plus seals and bearings if they need doing at the same time). Diff gears affect your gearing ALL the time, so you will run higher revs on the highway and you're in deep poo if you ever decide to run smaller tyres again. Lower ratio (numerically higher) gears are also not as strong so you are more likely to break gears if you go to a lower ratio, plus spares are more expensive - if you have factory gears you can always get more for cheap from a wrecker, if you have aftermarket you almost always have to buy new again if you bust them. Transfer gears only change the low range ratio so on-road remains the same. Add to that, anyone of reasonable mechanical skill (you can adjust tappets or change a timing belt) is capable of installing transfer gears - diffs however require specialist tools and skills that make it not viable for the home mechanic. Of course if you have unlimited funds, the ideal is to do both, but there is some benefit in leaving the vehicle as 'standard' as possible. Transfer cases in an 80 can be swapped in well under 2 hours if you decide you want to take your modified transfer with you, or sell it, or return the vehicle to standard - swapping diffs is far more time consuming not to mention messy.
hope that is of some help. Personally I have an 80 on 35's (manual turbo diesel) and it rarely wants lower gearing. certainly never on the highway (sometimes I reach for 6th) but occasionally off road lower gearing would be nice - but not nice enough to justify the cost.
cheers
DD
HOWEVER most people with 80's and running 35's have no need to change the gearing, the low range is quite low and the engines all have a fair amount of torque even at low rpm. unless you're ian insane rock-crawing nut (in which case 35's are never going to be enough anyway) then you will be satisfied with the stock gearing and 35's.
as for the cost/benefit of diff gears over transfer gears- first I am surprised at the cost of low range gears frot he 80 since the kit is essentially 2 gears and an instruction booklet - I would check with BBMRick to get a real price. Second, regearing diffs will cost at least $1000/end, drive in, drive out, or at least $850/end if you pull the diffs out yourself. this will cost extra if you are having ar lockers installed at the same time. (of course if you are only having lockers installed you're still up for around $200/end for installation, plus seals and bearings if they need doing at the same time). Diff gears affect your gearing ALL the time, so you will run higher revs on the highway and you're in deep poo if you ever decide to run smaller tyres again. Lower ratio (numerically higher) gears are also not as strong so you are more likely to break gears if you go to a lower ratio, plus spares are more expensive - if you have factory gears you can always get more for cheap from a wrecker, if you have aftermarket you almost always have to buy new again if you bust them. Transfer gears only change the low range ratio so on-road remains the same. Add to that, anyone of reasonable mechanical skill (you can adjust tappets or change a timing belt) is capable of installing transfer gears - diffs however require specialist tools and skills that make it not viable for the home mechanic. Of course if you have unlimited funds, the ideal is to do both, but there is some benefit in leaving the vehicle as 'standard' as possible. Transfer cases in an 80 can be swapped in well under 2 hours if you decide you want to take your modified transfer with you, or sell it, or return the vehicle to standard - swapping diffs is far more time consuming not to mention messy.
hope that is of some help. Personally I have an 80 on 35's (manual turbo diesel) and it rarely wants lower gearing. certainly never on the highway (sometimes I reach for 6th) but occasionally off road lower gearing would be nice - but not nice enough to justify the cost.
cheers
DD
Free air locker to the first 20 callers!
dd just read your reply im 100% sure thats the price rick gave me i wrote it down but the wife threw it out.
ive got a 4.5 80 35s its ok on road bot not real happy offroad.
its ok until you come to a tricky section then all you seem to be doing is burning out the clutch. i was thinking bout wacking a auto in it would that help much with those situations would it bolt straight in?
i hope i am wrong by $600 ill by one tommorrow iff i am.
any help greatly appreciated dd
cheers mick
ive got a 4.5 80 35s its ok on road bot not real happy offroad.
its ok until you come to a tricky section then all you seem to be doing is burning out the clutch. i was thinking bout wacking a auto in it would that help much with those situations would it bolt straight in?
i hope i am wrong by $600 ill by one tommorrow iff i am.
any help greatly appreciated dd
cheers mick
ok I don't know why I thought the gears were cheaper then, maybe just wishful thinking! even at that price though they are probably still slightly cheaper than diffs, and better value for money.mick80 wrote:dd just read your reply im 100% sure thats the price rick gave me i wrote it down but the wife threw it out.
ive got a 4.5 80 35s its ok on road bot not real happy offroad.
its ok until you come to a tricky section then all you seem to be doing is burning out the clutch. i was thinking bout wacking a auto in it would that help much with those situations would it bolt straight in?
i hope i am wrong by $600 ill by one tommorrow iff i am.
any help greatly appreciated dd
cheers mick
auto swap into an 80 is a pretty big job - need to change the gearbox, tailshafts, wiring harnesses, computers, maybe more - the only way to do it right is to have a more or less complete donor vehicle, in which case you might as well trade for a full auto vehicle and save yourself the cost and heartache of a conversion. The auto is a two edged sword, it does provide extra crawling ability off road but the overdrive ratio is very tall and on the highway you might find it is too tall with 35's, although it is pretty good with 33's. maybe borrow an auto, stick your 35's on it and give it a test drive?
Free air locker to the first 20 callers!
be buggered! didnt realsie there was that many avalible!dumbdunce wrote:you can get: 3.7:1, 3.9:1, 4.1:1, 4.3:1, 4.56:1, 4.88:1, 5.3:1, 5.7:1 diff gears front and rear for 80 series, there may also be other ratios.
but its prolly like u said.. cos they have such good gearing ppl dont generally change em much so u dont hear about them?
Jesus, wasn't expecting so many replies... where to start...firstly thankyou all!
Iv got a mate at Wombat Offroad that has quoted me $750 (a diff) to supply and fit diff ratios if i pull out the diff's and give them to him. He has recommended 4.72s if i plan on running 35's. Also he has said to fit the arb air lockers and to rebuild the diffs (bearings, seals, etc) all at the same time as the ratio's ill be looking at only another $50 a diff. Now, as i have already pulled out both diff's and have already purchased front and rear arb air lockers and the rebuild kits, its just a matter of if i should do diff ratio's.
Also, 80series factory diffs in both petrol and diesel, are they the same ratio and what ratio are they? 4.33 or there abouts?
Iv got a mate at Wombat Offroad that has quoted me $750 (a diff) to supply and fit diff ratios if i pull out the diff's and give them to him. He has recommended 4.72s if i plan on running 35's. Also he has said to fit the arb air lockers and to rebuild the diffs (bearings, seals, etc) all at the same time as the ratio's ill be looking at only another $50 a diff. Now, as i have already pulled out both diff's and have already purchased front and rear arb air lockers and the rebuild kits, its just a matter of if i should do diff ratio's.
Also, 80series factory diffs in both petrol and diesel, are they the same ratio and what ratio are they? 4.33 or there abouts?
Last edited by DGS4WD on Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
T.L. 93 80 4.5 GXL Man
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Yes you are right, just looked in my new manual and 80series diff ratio's are 4.100. But this manual only covers petrols. Are they the same for desiels?
T.L. 93 80 4.5 GXL Man
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Not sure, but i dont think it is to much less. Will ask on monday and get back to you.mick80 wrote:hey lad where and how much just for the gears
cheers mick
T.L. 93 80 4.5 GXL Man
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
I am waiting for my set dif gears to turn up 4.5 ratio to bring it back to std. I know in my maverick it picked up economy with 4.3 difs (it actually made it slightly lower geared = 105 speedo was 100 actual) I'll let you know how they go. My maverick was petrol and so it the cruiser. Costing me about $1800 fitted. Motive brand. Ratios are so often overlooked.
im guessing you running 35 will 4.5 make it right if so can you find out how much supply onlyRed Rover wrote:I am waiting for my set dif gears to turn up 4.5 ratio to bring it back to std. I know in my maverick it picked up economy with 4.3 difs (it actually made it slightly lower geared = 105 speedo was 100 actual) I'll let you know how they go. My maverick was petrol and so it the cruiser. Costing me about $1800 fitted. Motive brand. Ratios are so often overlooked.
thanks
cheers mick
Hey, iv been told that 4.72's will bring 80series cruisers with 35's back to standard gearing in not even a little lower. Thats what ill be getting when i get ratios.mick80 wrote:im guessing you running 35 will 4.5 make it right if so can you find out how much supply onlyRed Rover wrote:I am waiting for my set dif gears to turn up 4.5 ratio to bring it back to std. I know in my maverick it picked up economy with 4.3 difs (it actually made it slightly lower geared = 105 speedo was 100 actual) I'll let you know how they go. My maverick was petrol and so it the cruiser. Costing me about $1800 fitted. Motive brand. Ratios are so often overlooked.
thanks
cheers mick
T.L. 93 80 4.5 GXL Man
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
I have had this argument regarding ratios - too low yes will chew excess fuel, but so will taller diffs, especially towing. I picked up about 1.5 kms per litre on the maverick from 4.1 to 4.3. I reckon 4.5's is a good compramise, although I have my doubts on the strength of aftermarket gears. Motive are supposed to be as good as factory. I can get a factory set, but about $1500-$1600. Only set in Oz i believe. 4.8s will give you no real other option but to run 35's all the time, although some say in the states that 4.5 are a bit of a waste as it only increases it about 250rpm with 33 and that 33's are fine with 4.8s. Mine is auto though as are nearly all in the states which is a little more critical on diff gears as it's only 4 Speed, not 5 ie auto more spaced out ratios, not that i could drive a manual again..............
Ok, update time. Have just ordered brand new 4.56's for my rig's diff's. They will with a bit of luck be perfect for my upcoming 35" pedes (bring me back to standard gearing with factory 31"' tyres) . The ratios will be arriving Monday next week and will be fitted along with my brand new front and rear arb air lockers in my rebuit diffs. CANT WAIT!!!
Itemised cost:
ARB Air Lockers: $2000
4.6 Ratios: $1400
Diff Rebuild Kits: $400
Fitment: $200
TOTAL: $4000 (Yes it does hurt!)
Mick80, if I was to buy ratio's for someone else, he would charge me $1500. Sorry, best I can do.
Itemised cost:
ARB Air Lockers: $2000
4.6 Ratios: $1400
Diff Rebuild Kits: $400
Fitment: $200
TOTAL: $4000 (Yes it does hurt!)
Mick80, if I was to buy ratio's for someone else, he would charge me $1500. Sorry, best I can do.
Last edited by DGS4WD on Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
T.L. 93 80 4.5 GXL Man
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Its been 6 weeks since DGS4WD has been able to leave the driveway after a very hard thrushing during new years but yesterday proved a VERY GOOD day, a long waited day! Finally funds permitting, both newly rebuilt diffs fitted with new ARB lockers & 4.56 diff ratio gears became mine & I had the pleasure of fitting & testing them out on Sunday.
I seem to say this with every new purchase but money very well spent! 100% satisfied especially with the lockers. Incrediable feeling being able to at the switch of a button just climb up hills, pull & push through bog holes... & the best thing, having 2 MAGIC BUTTONS (not including the compressor). & lets not forget the ratios, its like a new car, it doesn't struggle taking off or crawling over rocks up a hill & no burning clutch!
Anyways, more importantly, a question. I was warned by Wombat Offroad NEVER to drive in reverse with the air lockers ingaged but no where to my knowlegde is this mentioned in the ARB booklets. Please help.
I seem to say this with every new purchase but money very well spent! 100% satisfied especially with the lockers. Incrediable feeling being able to at the switch of a button just climb up hills, pull & push through bog holes... & the best thing, having 2 MAGIC BUTTONS (not including the compressor). & lets not forget the ratios, its like a new car, it doesn't struggle taking off or crawling over rocks up a hill & no burning clutch!
Anyways, more importantly, a question. I was warned by Wombat Offroad NEVER to drive in reverse with the air lockers ingaged but no where to my knowlegde is this mentioned in the ARB booklets. Please help.
T.L. 93 80 4.5 GXL Man
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
Gigglepin winch, beadlocked 37x12.5-17 sticky treps, flip arm, high steer, 6" dobinsons, 33" boss's, longfields, 4.56 diffs, 25% low range, lockers
Team: Cause For Concern
The reason for this is because the front high pinion diff in an 80 runs the right direction. (the front in 60/70/40 run backwards when you are driving forward). So obviously in reverse the diff in an 80 is running backwards. This causes a weaknes for the diff because it is now running on the back of the gears while the weight of the car is over the front diff.(the weight transfer to the front gives the tyres more grip, meanig it is going to want to break free somewhere else. eg diff or cvs) This causes the crown and pinion gears to want to spread rather than pull together when they are running in the right direction.DGS4WD wrote:Its been 6 weeks since DGS4WD has been able to leave the driveway after a very hard thrushing during new years but yesterday proved a VERY GOOD day, a long waited day! Finally funds permitting, both newly rebuilt diffs fitted with new ARB lockers & 4.56 diff ratio gears became mine & I had the pleasure of fitting & testing them out on Sunday.
I seem to say this with every new purchase but money very well spent! 100% satisfied especially with the lockers. Incrediable feeling being able to at the switch of a button just climb up hills, pull & push through bog holes... & the best thing, having 2 MAGIC BUTTONS (not including the compressor). & lets not forget the ratios, its like a new car, it doesn't struggle taking off or crawling over rocks up a hill & no burning clutch!
Anyways, more importantly, a question. I was warned by Wombat Offroad NEVER to drive in reverse with the air lockers ingaged but no where to my knowlegde is this mentioned in the ARB booklets. Please help.
When you go to a lower ratio this weekens it even more because the crownwheel has more teeth. More teeth means less metal in the crownwheel for strength.
Hope this explains the warning.
I have been told that the arb locker actually helps to strengthen the diff.
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