80 Series Rear Calipers/ booster/brake questions

[A1]

I do own a HUNGY so Im allowed to be here for starters let alone there is enough TOY on my Vit

I've got some brake issues with the setup on my Vit which has 60 series diffs front and rear and the rear has also been converted to 60 series front calipers and rotors ......

So I thought I would have some sort of issue with fitting the calipers at the rear with fluid flow ....but I thought I may have been able to live with .....there has been alot of 60 series even 80 series cruiser axle swaps into sierra's and Vit's .....with drum rear with no braking probs the sierra guys have an option of a bigger Master cylinder to overcome any fluid flow probs .....aswell but it seems the Vits dont

So the I am wondering what size and how many pistons per caliper has the 80series rear's got ..mainly trying to diagnose whether if there smaller or less pistons ccould be why Gonads gets away with the setup in his which I think still runs stock booster/MC .......

I currently have a 100 series booster and MC but will take some cutting and brkts to fit .....but with the bigger booster I'm not sure if the vacuum from the 1.6l 4 cylinder will be the same as the 4.2l diesel cruiser motor that the setup came from which may /may not cause issue's in its self ....the master should be good as its alot longer which I hope will mean more fluid push

I have been told about how the lux guys fit the 80 series MC to there booster's which may be an option as I believe the Lux boosters are similar in size to the VIT's and be an easier fittment ......less cutty cutty ....

And its a bit late but prob obviuos that the brakes are lacking in the stopping department .....they have been bled many times to make sure there's no air in them......just dont seem to be getting anough fluid push to all the calipers hence the above jiberish

What do the guys do with the 60 series cruiser that convert to rear disc any upgrades to the MC maybe that could be an option as the 60 series booster is alot cheaper than the 100 series I currently have a loan off



Sorry for the lack of direction I hope some1 can understand what I've said above .....

Dan

[slowhilux]

80 series rears are the same as the 100's, single piston, floating caliper (slide caliper).The 80/100 also has a drum in disc handbrake, so addapting the 80 discs to the 60 diff may prove to be a PITA. The reason i say this, is, im pretty sure a 80 rear caliper may not fit over a 60 front disc (80 rears are vented, but still quite alot thinner than 60 fronts). If you were to put the bigger 80 or 100 MC on, my money is on it locking the rears constatntly. The Lux booster with 80 MC sounds like the go, as the the MC bore volume vs. the caliper volume would be fairly close to stock (if single piston rears are used). you may also need to use the proportioning valve found just up in front of the rear diff on any 80/100 series.

[MissDrew]

I do own a HUNGY so Im allowed to be here for starters let alone there is enough TOY on my Vit

No way Dan, there`s the door now use it



For the vacum just go and get a 1 way valve from any brake shop and just put it in the vacum line to the booster. But then again I think all petrol cars have these built into the booster anyway.

You need more fluid at the calipers before you need a bigger booster. Once you fit a mc with a bigger bore you`ll get this. But then it will feel like the pedal goes to the floor, a bigger booster will help with this.

In my hilux I fitted rear disks and had to upgrade to the 80 mc as it has a 1 inch bore. But the pedal now travels further before the brakes work. But when they work they work much better then before.

[dow50r]

Your rear callipers are too big. rear ford 9 inch callipers fit over the 60 disc oki and have handbrake. Use the largest booster, 80 series or 100 is good. Vacuum is about thesame, put a reservoir from a diesel toyota in line and bobs your uncle. Supra from 92 have 1.25 inch masters, might fit...if you try to mimic what the engineers have done, you cant go far wrong...no car has 4 spot rear callipers, the fronts yes, they do 75% of the work, the rears no....I think the 200b front calliper has thesanme spacing at the bolts too. Ive also heard people fit a hq bracket with a vl girlock alloy calliper together on old dattos that run 60 callipers.
Lastly, you can go bigger on the front to get more out of them if you dont want to change the rear...and do want to change the front...bolt on v6 or surf front callipers...they run thesame size piston as 80 series.

[A1]

Guts .......

J/k Thanks fella's I wasnt sure if any one could work out heads from tails from that post ..... but it seems as though you have


Now ......It seems as though I'm going to better off getting a 80 series booster and MC .....Guts has said the MC has a 1" bore ....where as the 100 series MC I have here only has a 13/16 well thats whats stamped on it ...(the booster and MC is from a 98 model 4.2d)......

I was hoping to use the smaller of the boosters (maybe hilux ) as it meant less choppin .....But I do want to have decent brakes on it ....Not that it will ever see the road but will be regoed/engineered...for comp use so the locking up of the rear brakes may not be an issue ....maybe add a proportional valve ......would a 80 /100 series brake bias valve wrk as mentioned above ??? do away with my stock item and fit this ??

And if I still have issues get some of the V6 calipers up front ......(after all rebuilding all the calipers LOL )


Ps Are the 80 series boosters the same size as the 100's ???

And I did take into account about the rear calipers being too big but I will try the bigger booster/master and see how it turns out


Thanks for the info


Dan

[A1]

EDIT may be more wrk than I first assumed .......didnt realise just how close the steering shaft was to the booster the current booster is 220mm overall roughly and the 100 series is 245 ...or there abouts.....

and upon looking under the dash FAWK the stiffener brkt is connected to bloody everywhere ......grrrrrr.....so I cant really move the booster up ......maybe the hilux booster /80 MC may be a better option



any1 have any measurements of a lux booster ?? please
Dan

[slowhilux]

Remote booster and MC in rear somewhere? Seen this done on many Escorts, as they are in a shit spot when putting larger motors in them.

[dow50r]

Maybe the 100 master is inch and 3/16...it wouldnt be less...100's have bigger front callipers than 80's....(2x48mm piston and 45mm per side) 80's have 1 inch master, 100 would be bigger not smaller...as i said b4, the supra has 1.125 (inch and one eighth) with two bolt pattern like later hilux....maybe there could be something in that setup....heres a novel idea...what about a gxl master with electric hydraulic control??
Engineering wise, you can fit an adjustable bias valve in the system, but it cant be driver adjustable, must be set and forget.
Andrew

[A1]

Phil , the remote idea ...is getting a bit technical for me ....but still an option


Andrew I went looking through a local wreckers this arv ......and found
that ......

Hilux has roughly a 215-220 booster almost the same as what the Vit has stock with bolt pattern of 100mm across 70mm vertical centres ....which isnt an issue

The Vit has 80mm across and 60mm up ...with like I said 220mm booster ... I also fitted an XL7 booster last night/this morning finsihed @ 1:30 am ....with the same bolt pattern but larger booster(depth, diameter the same) different style MC this is better than the stock item but still not what you would call braking

100 series deifnatley had 13/16 MC which I thought strange...you could tell by the physical size of the MC that it was tiny ....my stock Vit has 7/8..... 100s booster size is about 245mm bolt centres 100 x 70 .....

Next thing I found on the shelf while looking around GQ booster mmm same bolt centres as the VIT, but didnt measure the diameter ...would have been as big if not bigger than the 100s....

I think it was a V6 runner booster same (similar) size to the 100's .....
100 x 70 bolt centres (all these bolt centre's are for mounting to firewall)

found an 80 series still not stripped booster size 245mm there abouts ....1" MC you could easily tell the size difference between the 80 to 100 let alone the big number 1 on the side of it ......bolt centre's 100 x 70 ......had a decent look around and under the dash ....going back 2morra arv to pull it out and the pedal assembly....and maybe a few of the junction's that run down the the front n rear of the vehicle and the lines ......

Ive prob taken on more than I realise at the moment as getting it to fit
by raising and then plating the old hole's and pulling out all the original shite from the vits dash is going to be pita but I want decent brakes here's hoping that it works onced fitted .......

But I could grab an early model lux booster and the MC off the 80 and refit with alot less wrk ......so people's opinions will the 80 booster really make a huge difference to the setup in my case ............. or try and find a supra MC and fit as Andrew has mentioned to the later model 2 bolt booster ?

mmmm my head hurts and I havent even bashed it many times under the fawkin dash yet trying to get things to fit

thanks again for the feed back


Dan

[MissDrew]

I`d go with the 100x70mm mounting holes because then you have so many different boosters that will bolt up.

Another thing to check (don`t know if they differ or not) is the distance of the stroke of each booster and your pedal.

After reading threw all your crap I think I`d try.

Same rotors front n rear
gen 3 hilux booster
80 MC, these btw have the brake lines coming out the motor side. If you need lines out the gaurd side have a look at the 3lt turboed hiluxes as I think they might have a 1 inch bore mc with lines coming out the gaurd side. If its not the 3 lt turboed model it might be the V6 ones, but there is a newer model hilux then mine that has these anyway does that make sense
Then get an adjustable valve from a HQ, these are a inline valve that you set and forget and you can get them passed by engineers. If you need more info ask my brother DAZ from 3rd rock as he has this in his 40.

[slowhilux]

Andrew,
Which Supra ha 1.125" MC? I have a MA70, JZA70 and GA70 MC here, they are all 1". Im assuming a JZA80, with the big brakes (4 pot front, 2 pot rear) setup.

Dan,
Im pretty sure PBR do a number of parts for remote mounting the booster/MC. Mate had a setup on his MK1 Escort, with it all in the boot! From memory it is all of the shelf PBR stuff. When i was builing old Celicas, i custom built a big brake package for them (TA22/RA23/RA40, etc). Consisted of Hilux LN106 4 pot calipers, peugeot 604 280mm vented discs, and (if u had a Hilux diff in the car), either the std drums or R31 Skyline discs and 1 pot calipers. I used a MA70 Supra 1" boore MC, on the std 25+y.o Celica booster. It STOPPED, let me tell you.. The bias was perfect. I will fingd out the mounting bolt pattern of a Supra MC for u. Its 4 bolt.

[tuf045]

replacing the the booster with larger one will make very minimal diffrence if any at all. as for putting in a remote one it would be a vh40 or 44 and than you will need two of them for your car. put the hilux booster and 80 series Master cylinder on.
What is the actual problem is it lack of pedal height or good pedal height but no stopping power?

[A1]

Guts yeah I'm leaning towards that as it was going to be a pain to install the larger booster if anything I'd say that the pedal will just be harder ...as I mentioned It improved slightly with the XL7 booster ....MC as the I think the MC carrys more fluid but it just doesnt haver the stroke ....As it is I checked again with the available room under the dash and even to fit the Lux booster it means a re-fab of the pedal box to widen it enought to be able to accept the larger bolt centre's of the TOY booster....

Phil ...I had alook through some googled links after reading your post ......And upon that I recall a mate thats into the early falcons XK XM XP and remember about this setup as he was looking into it aswell ...hopefully I can get this wrking with the Lux /80 MC


tuf ..... reasonable pedal height no stopping power .....


Dan

[dow50r]

Phil, the jz80 has the larger master, on what looks like a late 80 booster (2 bolt pattern)...i have a mx83 cressida with what looks like an 80 booster and 1 inch ABS master std...things like combination door switches are all from thesame parts bin at Toyota...bet the other stuff is also...the 7mge looks mighty like the 1fzfe but smaller.....
The later 3 litre hilux has the two stud 1 inch master.
Putting larger master on will increase effort on pedal, but shorten the stroke needed to move all those pistons....i believe the 100 master you have been shown is actually a 60 series....only the poverty pack 100 came with booster, all others had electro hydraulic square doovers...
Andrew

[tuf045]

are they brand new disc's and pads front and rear? What kind of pads? ie semi metllic

[A1]

Phil, the jz80 has the larger master, on what looks like a late 80 booster (2 bolt pattern)...i have a mx83 cressida with what looks like an 80 booster and 1 inch ABS master std...things like combination door switches are all from thesame parts bin at Toyota...bet the other stuff is also...the 7mge looks mighty like the 1fzfe but smaller.....
The later 3 litre hilux has the two stud 1 inch master.
Putting larger master on will increase effort on pedal, but shorten the stroke needed to move all those pistons....i believe the 100 master you have been shown is actually a 60 series....only the poverty pack 100 came with booster, all others had electro hydraulic square doovers...
Andrew

definatley a 100 dude 4.2ld and yes it was off a fawked up rusted out ex mine vehicle .....like I said 98 model my fathers 98 4.5 litre petty (RV) has a similar booster just different around where the vacuum line goes in ......My 2001 50thAnn has the setup you mentioned .........

And yes they are all new disks and pads ...cant recall on pads I just bought em and chucked them in croc country brand from memory ......I have already thought of the scrub in time with new disk's pads ......but the brakes are worse than this ....




Dan

[A1]

Picked up the Lux booster (which is smaller in diameter,larger in depth ) the 80 series MC ....80 series pedal assembly and a few other odds and ends .......didnt cost much .......actually it didnt cost anything .........



There is no mods needed to the plunger on the lux booster when adapting the to a 80series MC ?


I will see how this all wrks ...and see if a inline proportional valve is needed



Thanks for the info fella's



Dan

[MissDrew]

Ok Dan now that we have helped you get out of the toyota section

[A1]

K bye ......







stil have to see what the out come is goin to be but atleast it will only be labour time if this setup doesnt work ......

I still have more Yota Questions ...such as any1 fitted a transfer hand brake with a rear disconnect but i will have a search first

Dan

[A1]

OK booster /MC all fitted but .........When boosters fail do they leak back inside the cab through the push rod actuator ......

I can hear air leaking or sucking I guess i should put considering the donk is creating the vacuum ..... when my foot is on the pedal ....cant hear anything ....

And what gives it away also is an eratic idle when the brakes arent applied when they are applied it idles fine .......... But on a high note the brakes seems heaps better and I can give it some revs in low foot on the brake and it just torques the rig over (no shocks yet) ......they still seem strange when moving but I think thats just the new pads and rotors


Dan

[dow50r]

Hey, you need to check two measurements....the pedal needs to be right up and the booser in the home position when they are coupled. Also, (and this is probably wher a problem could exist) the length of protrusion of the master cylinder piston pusher might be too short....boosters dont usually fail, having said that, do u know the age of the one you have?
It surely sounds like it is sucking air through that valve and the diaphram

[A1]

Hey, you need to check two measurements....the pedal needs to be right up and the booser in the home position when they are coupled. Also, (and this is probably wher a problem could exist) the length of protrusion of the master cylinder piston pusher might be too short....boosters dont usually fail, having said that, do u know the age of the one you have?
It surely sounds like it is sucking air through that valve and the diaphram

Yep the pedal is sitting with no load on it .....as soon as you push the pedal it moves the actuator prob about 5-10mm and you can feel pressure onto the MC ..........so maybe the plunger is too short .......maybe guts can tell me if he hadto modify his plunger when he fitted his 80 series mastercylinder.....

I dont know the what year model although it says ln106....that would tell the year model y/n ......I grabbed the best looking booster that they had ......lol maybe if it is stuffed I should grab the most crappy looking one ....

I wouldnt of thought if the plunger was too short that it would leak where it seems to be at the back of the booster (inside the cab



thanks again dow5or

Dan


edit : here's a link to the pics of the install

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... &start=300

And yes the vacuum hose is now fitted ...wasnt in the pics as the hose I had was too short due the factory Vit vacuum inlet being on the other side of the booster ....and i refitted the 1 way valve inside the hose ..

[MissDrew]

I unbolted the old MC and then just bolted the 80 one up. The only other thing I had to do was rework the brake lines as the 80 and hilux mc have the holes in the opposite sides.

[A1]

Thanks Guts ........thats what I thought But I wasnt 100% sure ........


I'd say (hope) that the booster is fawked .......



Thanks

Dan

[A1]

Well picked up another booster this arv and fitted it up AGAIN ...... and all seems shweet no more leaks no more eratic idle .....brakes seem to be ok hopefully get better once the pads all bed in ....

I also grabbed the 80 series booster to see if I could get it to fit .....

I prob could but I will only fit this if I feel I need it in the future....need to mod a few more brkts under the dash to fit properly .....


Anyhow

thanks for help


Dan

[A1]

Ok went back to the ALL4X4 thisarv @ kotara and found that the 4runner Surfs have the same size diameter booster but it is deeper and runs the 1" master ..but as Guts as mentioned the fittings are on the opposite side ....

So I will keep the 80 master ...but even though the second hilux booster which is now fitted seems ok ...I would rather be running the bigger booster so out the LUX one comes and 2morra night once I remove it from the Surf I'll be fitting it up to the VIT ......It will mean some of thr original OLD strut tower will have to be further modded .....with the trusty BFH



Dan

[A1]

mmmmm...well I have been known to change my mind ......when I picked up (removed) the surf booster this arv I had a scrounge around after HYPO mentioned he used a 40 series MC which is also 1" in size .......but is longer than the 80series MC

Anyway found a 45 series ......MC same as the 40 ......have removed the restrictors in both fittings and am goin to fit tonight ...along with the larger Surf booster lets fuggin hope this is the last time


Dan