Outer Limits 4x4 Board

that's something i hadn't thought 'bout... it'd be nice to have a bit of extra droop, but it sounds like when ur on an angle it'll let the body roll further and risk rollover. on a relatively narrow and high vehicle like a zook i don't think that'd be a really good thing

be nice if they had an incab locking system, so ya can lock em closed when ya doing hairy slope stuff. while they're at it, maybe an adjustable system like ranchos so you can set em to firm so ya get more traction

Flex is waay over rated. Actually I should qualify that, too much flex is bad much like most things. A balanced rig with jst enogh flex and lockers will outperform something with heaps of flex in nearly all cases.

I have seen flex monsters sit and spin all wheels because there is not much contact pressure whilst a locked rig with a wheel in the air drive straight through the same obstacle.

It is good to keep all your wheels on the ground to a point, but at a certain point it becomes a liabilty not an asset. Contact pressure is what it is all about, if you can get traction from 3 wheels locked up you will get further than 4 spinning locked wheels.

But a super flexy rig does look cool...................just before it flops over onto its roof

As to those gimmicky drop shackles you should also get a hula hoop and a yo yo. They'll do you as much good as the shackles. i have seen springs busted, vehicles tip over and generally under perform because of them, but that's my .02c worth

one thing no-one has touched upon yet is when good wheel travel will save a vehicle from going over. a good flexible suspension should be able to absorb the inertia from a big weight shift into the springs rather than transferring it to the wheels and pulling the vehicle over.
there is arguments for and against everything, and everything is a compromise.

Area54 wrote:

Wendle wrote:one thing no-one has touched upon yet is when good wheel travel will save a vehicle from going over. a good flexible suspension should be able to absorb the inertia from a big weight shift into the springs rather than transferring it to the wheels and pulling the vehicle over.
there is arguments for and against everything, and everything is a compromise.

Millhouse: "That's my line, thats the thing that I say"

Nelson: "HA HA"

Area54 wrote:

Wendle wrote:

Area54 wrote:

Wendle wrote:one thing no-one has touched upon yet is when good wheel travel will save a vehicle from going over. a good flexible suspension should be able to absorb the inertia from a big weight shift into the springs rather than transferring it to the wheels and pulling the vehicle over.
there is arguments for and against everything, and everything is a compromise.

Millhouse: "That's my line, thats the thing that I say"

Nelson: "HA HA"

Homer: "Why you little..."

Burns: "excellent"

Troy McLure: "Hello, I'm Troy McLure, you may remember me from all those bullshit ravings in the wheel travel thread that got deleted"

Planb, just to clarify my point earlier, I don't think 4 wheels makes much difference than 3 when it comes to traction for the average weekend 4 wheeler......not when other modern traction aids are involved. My view is that travel is overated when refering to general 4x4 ability and more recently when journos report on IFS equiped 4WDs. What I think makes for more capable 4x4ing (in this order):
1. Driver ability
2. Clearance (spring lift or larger tyres)
3. LSD
4. 1 diff lock
5. 2 diff locks.
Power doesn't have much to do with the equation either.
To me, body lifts are a crock unless you wish to fit bigger rubber without cutting panels.
Might I remind you that I have been 4WDing for just over 1 year, but this has been my observation so far.

glenxr650 wrote:What I think makes for more capable 4x4ing (in this order):
1. Driver ability
2. Clearance (spring lift or larger tyres)
3. LSD
4. 1 diff lock
5. 2 diff locks.
Power doesn't have much to do with the equation either.
To me, body lifts are a crock unless you wish to fit bigger rubber without cutting panels.
Might I remind you that I have been 4WDing for just over 1 year, but this has been my observation so far.

I dunno I think 2 diff locks should be further up the order than one LSD.....

what i think makes a good rig...

1. driver ability (and knowledge of vehicle's abilities/inabilties)
2. lockers (the more the merrier)
3. tyres (bigger IS better)
4. clearance (at the approach, diffs, driveshafts, chassis rails & belly, sills, rear...)
5. gearing and power
6. controlled predictable flex
7. weight (low overall, low cog, good distribution)
8. ability to take lots of damage and abuse
9. esky for the beers
10. and some bling

Amen to #6 on the above list...took me 8 times to get the right one on my Disco...with off-the-shelf items!

#9 should be number 1

ahhh but u need a adequate shock which will provide u with extra traction aswell, makes a hell of a lot of difference..

no 9 i recon all

I think there's 3 things that really make a 4by... although they easily can be broken down into all the bits an pieces that make them occur the way you want.



Power Traction Clearance

Power doesnt mean 5 litres of V8 - it's effective power (effort for the physically minded) - so a 6:1 rockhopper in a 1.3 zook still has it. It's also related to weight, gearing, so you end up with power to weight, torque to gearing, etc etc.

Traction - size, grip, treadpattern of tyres, airpressures, beadlocks, lockers. Obviously power, gearing and power delivery are related to how much effective tractive effort you can get as well. Probably auto vs manual comes in here too. Additional weight also gives extra traction but requires more traction to convert to kinetic energy.

Clearance - overall ground clearance, ramp angle, approach and departure angles, flexibility of suspension. Tyres, suspension and body lift plus bobbing all help here.

You need at least one of these in spades - eg a Unimog has loads of clearance due to it's height of tyres but it's power to weight and relative traction compared to a 31" zook with muddies still sucks. Even so, you wouldn't expect the Unimog to struggle too many places and would spend a lot of time snatching out said Sierra (at least until we get to the sand).

Each limitation may be driven around by the experienced use of the other features - up to a point where you run out of surplus "feature B" as well as "feature A". Obviously a driver can influence or juggle effective power and traction by their driving style.

These three things are the key factors, however they are acheived. Whichever one when applied in concert is the limiting factor of your vehicle determines how far you go relative to someone else.

The more of each factor you have then the closer you are to a monster truck.

Holy crap .. Suzuki_viagra at the zen book of 4 wheeling and spewed up a post

Suzuki Viagra wrote:

glenxr650 wrote:What I think makes for more capable 4x4ing (in this order):
1. Driver ability
2. Clearance (spring lift or larger tyres)
3. LSD
4. 1 diff lock
5. 2 diff locks.
Power doesn't have much to do with the equation either.
To me, body lifts are a crock unless you wish to fit bigger rubber without cutting panels.
Might I remind you that I have been 4WDing for just over 1 year, but this has been my observation so far.

I dunno I think 2 diff locks should be further up the order than one LSD.....

I have found that LSD has reduced my driver ability, but has def made for some fun trips into the bush