Outer Limits 4x4 Board

bogged wrote:nobody would expect 3 tons to be successfully punted round outback aust with a 2ltr donk.

As an owner of a 1500kg jeep with a 4 litre engine, I wouldn't have expected a 2400kg Patrol to be drivable a 3 litre engine either - I had to test drive it before I'd believe it - but it works fine for me and feels a hell of a lot more powerful than the jeep ever did.

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

bogged wrote:which proves you never buy on whats on paper, you use your brain, nobody would expect 3 tons to be successfully punted round outback aust with a 2ltr donk.

Nobody would expect a 660cc motor to pull a 34" tyred car along the highway at 100kph either... but mine does.... or spin all 4 tyres in low 4th on a muddy track...

In the 1950's Mercedes stated point blank that no road car would ever exceed 100hp/litre or go faster than 13 seconds on the 1/4 mile. It took a while, but they were wrong.

I understand on the face of it, it doesn't seem possible, and there would be huge buyer scepticism, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. Diesel engine delevopment is running way ahead of petrol development atm.

Steve.

660 cc? What the hell kind of car is that? My motorbike is 1150cc.

Ive got a Japanese market 660cc 3 cylinder motor in my LWB suzuki sierra. Not specifically relevant to the topic, only to point out that sometimes preconceptions aren't helpful.

Steve.

Tom0 wrote:

bogged wrote:nobody would expect 3 tons to be successfully punted round outback aust with a 2ltr donk.

As an owner of a 1500kg jeep with a 4 litre engine, I wouldn't have expected a 2400kg Patrol to be drivable a 3 litre engine either - I had to test drive it before I'd believe it - but it works fine for me and feels a hell of a lot more powerful than the jeep ever did.

then load it up for touring like most do, which brings it to 3500kgs, and go agian, you see everyone lookin for more sniff with chips, exhausts etc.. they are dead as a doe doe under 2g's well documented.

Then suppose it doesnt matter as nobody keeps them for more than lease times these days, so its the poor second hand owner who cops the lemon... so flog the shit out of it and dump it in 3 yrs. I'm more talkin long term purchasers.

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

No thanks

All i was saying was 4.0, 1500 kgs = Sounds ok, drives like a heap of crap.

3.0 litre, 2400 kgs = sounds worse, but I can tell you from someone who has both under the carport right now, drives much better.

Add 1000kgs to each, I'm guessing the patrol will still drive better. The Jeep - I'm not sure you could fit 1000 kgs in it, and I'm not sure it could drive worse. Its a jeep thing - it was designed back when steam engines were cool and has had minimal design upgrades since then.

If I could get a 2.0 with more power and more torque because it's better designed, great. I'm not going to write it off just because it has a "2" in it. That would be like choosing a 6 litre engine from 1975 over a 4 litre from today - which do you think is going to push harder? (Unless it's a jeep... then you should stick with the 1975, because it's more advanced than a 1955)

Would you really stick to the older gas guzzler with less power just because it's bigger???

If size is more important than power and torque, maybe you should speak to Hummer - I think their marketing team is looking for you.

Would you really stick to the older gas guzzler with less power just because it's bigger???

each to his own mate, but do you think that 2.0ltr workin it's ring off to pull the weight is going to last as long as the bigger donk. even if the bigger donk has got less power, with developments in engine gear these days you can get more power easily. sure it might cost a little bit more but at the end of the day you have a more relible car than ya 2.0ltr. like they all say, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUE FOR CUBES.

kebwaa wrote: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUE FOR CUBES.

There is also no substitute for technology

bogged wrote:THE FACTS:

Its going to be between a V2 and V10, or straight 4 to straight 12 possibly turbo or more, maybe blower, maybe both maybe none...
It may have 1-1000kw at the wheels, and 1-10000nM torque, then again, it maynot.

It may have suspension, or live axle, but highly doubtful.

Will come standard with 4 wheels, and 1 spare, possibly a space saver, then possibly not.

The engine will be made by someone and may have shit parts supply and little backing, or maybe lots of parts, and great backing

The only certainty is you never buy the first of any model car, until they have service pack 12 out, and the bugs are gone.

you are an oxygen thief

Tom0 wrote:Their 1.9 litre turbo diesel gives 96 kW and 250 Nm of torque.

Their 2.0-litre common rail gives you 127kW and torque of 360Nm.

The 3.0 Patrol: 118 kw and 354nm

By those numbers, you'd be better off with a 2.0 renault common rail turbo diesel than the current 3.0 nissan.

By those numbers.

They're only half the story. RPM is the other half. Got those numbers?

I have a gu11 3lt auto.I wouldnt have baught it by choice as Ive been a 4.2td owner & basicly,by listning to everyone else for years thaught a 3lt would be going backwards.but that is what I was supplied as a company car.
# at take off it seems a little slugish,but recovers very quickly.
#through trafic it seems very responsive.
#on the open road it is extreemly capable,& cruises eccinomicaly.
#overtaking there is supprisingly very little to no lag,jumping from 100 to 140klm too quick(unfortunatly got the speeding tickets to proove it)
#towing a loaded aussie swag camper & car packed for a family of 3..
(a) BITUMEN.. you wouldnt know the difference between a 4.2 & 3lt
(b) DIRT.. as above
(c) HWY OVERTAKING.. as above
(d) SAND / BEACH.. in soft sand it works a little harder,but not enough to notice.(maybee theres less weight under the bonet,im not sure)
#towing a car trailer with 2tone comp truck,spares,camping gear for family of 3
(a) overtaking..still has good pull,but dont try on a hill
(b) HILLS.. dosent like them too much, but neither did the 4.2td.
(c) FULE.. is thirsty when pushed, but I do have big heavy feet.
so far its performing quite well.This wouldnt have been my choice of engines, but after seeing how it performes,I am going to buy it off the company when it is ready to move it on.
im no mechanic, this is what I have personaly found with the one I drive. CHEERS PIGLET

frp88 wrote:

bogged wrote:THE FACTS:

Its going to be between a V2 and V10, or straight 4 to straight 12 possibly turbo or more, maybe blower, maybe both maybe none...
It may have 1-1000kw at the wheels, and 1-10000nM torque, then again, it maynot.

It may have suspension, or live axle, but highly doubtful.

Will come standard with 4 wheels, and 1 spare, possibly a space saver, then possibly not.

The engine will be made by someone and may have shit parts supply and little backing, or maybe lots of parts, and great backing

The only certainty is you never buy the first of any model car, until they have service pack 12 out, and the bugs are gone.

you are an oxygen thief

<insert OL tissuebox image>

-Scott- wrote:They're only half the story. RPM is the other half. Got those numbers?

Yep, actually.

127 kW (175 hp) @ 3,750 rpm
Torque 340 Nm @ 2,000 rpm 360 Nm @ 1,750 rpm
Fuel consumption 5.8 l/100 km 6.0 l/100 km (in a little sporty car)

That's a 2005 engine, too, so it's not like it's brand spanking and you can't get hold of one. And I'd assume if they had a new one, it would be better than that.

3.0 Patrol: Max power at 3600 rpm, torque at 2000 rpm.

Pretty similar really.

Tom0 wrote:

-Scott- wrote:They're only half the story. RPM is the other half. Got those numbers?

Yep, actually.

127 kW (175 hp) @ 3,750 rpm
Torque 340 Nm @ 2,000 rpm 360 Nm @ 1,750 rpm
Fuel consumption 5.8 l/100 km 6.0 l/100 km (in a little sporty car)

That's a 2005 engine, too, so it's not like it's brand spanking and you can't get hold of one. And I'd assume if they had a new one, it would be better than that.

3.0 Patrol: Max power at 3600 rpm, torque at 2000 rpm.

Pretty similar really.

Not really. You need to see the torque curve so you can relate to drivability from low rpm's.

BAzzle

Modern diesels have to be defuelled when off boost to pass emissions nowdays anyway so off idle drivability will always be poorer than it was back in the day of mechanically injected engines - it's part of the reason modern diesels drive so much better with autos behind them.

There's no reason why, with an auto, revs woud ever need to drop below 1750rpm when any power was required.

Steve.

For those those who lost the plot in there somewhere, this might the best contender for the actual engine we're talking about here (or were at the start)

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/11 ... nault-v-6/

The 3.0L common rail diesel V-6

The 3.0-liter V6 dCi Concept engine was designed within the Renault-Nissan Alliance with Renault having much of the engineering responsibility and Nissan providing performance target settings and package optimization.

The V6 dCi Concept engine features, among other things, specially designed air intake ducts which increase combustion speed through a swirl effect... Built-in Hiclone!!

The engine develops 195 kW (261 hp) of power and maximum torque of 550 Nm (406 lb ft) at 1,750 rpm with targeted CO2 emissions of less than 200g/km.

... will also be compatible with the use of B30 biodiesel.

Tom0 wrote:All i was saying was 4.0, 1500 kgs = Sounds ok, drives like a heap of crap.

The Jeep - I'm not sure you could fit 1000 kgs in it, and I'm not sure it could drive worse. Its a jeep thing - it was designed back when steam engines were cool and has had minimal design upgrades since then.

ha ha, you're really selling me the Jeep!

But I understand, I used to have a Landrover.

Tom0 wrote: If size is more important than power and torque, maybe you should speak to Hummer - I think their marketing team is looking for you.

Maybe Bogged is compensating?
I know I am ha ha

No-one buys a jeep for it's technology or functionality.
It's like a pair of lacey underwear - it has a certain look and it fits on youre Mrs' arse, what more do you want?