Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Suspension Stuff wrote:So you are saying that the easiest way to replace stuff if it breaks is to mate the LS1 to a Patrol auto with the adapter at this point.

If so, what are your thoughts about the stregth of the Patrol auto vs the strength of the 4L60E

Shane at the end of the day the patrol box is made to drive the patrol, 4l60e is to move a commodore and whenever a commodore engine is worked you'll always work the autobox cause its only good for so much power. Either way the auto will need to be worked on, 4L60E will need to be pulled down to shaft it and you might as well beef it up, so just beef up the patrol auto then everything will fit at low cost. A good auto shop should know what to do, if i still had my own workshop i'd do it for you at parts cost. Is this going to be a road driven too? cause it would shit me to tears to have a manual valve body fitted as you might as well just use a manual box.

OLD DOG

I'm not interested in a manual drive body.

I don't have a Patrol auto right now, actually I do but it is toast. So I am up for another auto now so I am trying to figure out which is best.

Oh only a burnt one!!! Geeeeee now its your call and a big one,MMMMMMMMM maybe get the burnt auto pulled down and checked out first to see whats it going to take to rebuild, then go from there.

P.S is this going to be road driven too??

I would say to keep costs down at the moment grab an adapter from dellows/marks for the patrol auto to LS1 if they make one, should be around $700. Fab your own engine mounts. Get the auto serviced when you buy one and beefed up if you can afford to at the moment.

There are lots of big horse power rigs racing with the patrol auto.

Cris

Suspension Stuff wrote:So you are saying that the easiest way to replace stuff if it breaks is to mate the LS1 to a Patrol auto with the adapter at this point.

If so, what are your thoughts about the stregth of the Patrol auto vs the strength of the 4L60E

I can not offer an opinion of the Nissan auto, but I am running a 4L65E behind an LS3 in a 80 series, while the GM 700's do have well know issues which I have personally experienced with this setup. There is tons of options and parts available to strengthen the GM auto, and the difficulties of getting the Nissan Auto to talk to the GM ECU in my opinion makes the 700 the way to go.

Sonnax do a lot of performance parts for all Auto's good website to visit, lots of tech articles.
http://www.sonnax.com/

hey mate we have a 4l60e behind a ls1 in a gu it gose great was easy to fit up to
got all the bits though marks adapters.. and we have had no troble with it..

my 2 cents
thanks jezza

BEEPJEEP wrote:Oh only a burnt one!!! Geeeeee now its your call and a big one,MMMMMMMMM maybe get the burnt auto pulled down and checked out first to see whats it going to take to rebuild, then go from there.

P.S is this going to be road driven too??

The Mrs bought a Patrol on ebay knowing the auto was stuffed. The previous owners really did drive it into the ground. It would not work what so ever and leaked about a litre of fluid in less then a minute. I felt that it would be like kicking a dead horse.

chunks wrote:http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part ... 400&page=1

What do you get for 15k worth of TH400? Didn't think it would be possible to spend that much money on one. I have been told they are good for 600hp with minor mods.

you can buy one for 600hp for $2k or less.

The power rating is for street use - you subtract at least 20% for dirt due to constant unloading / reloading over bumps. 600hp is nothing if its for 13 seconds, but 750hp for a 1000 miles its a different case. They run massive oil coolers similar in size to a standard radiator for example, then they use full new cut and better quality gear sets in different ratios, full manual valve bodies, upgraded cases, upgraded sprags, 300m input shafts etc etc.

I have had quotes in aus for about 5-7k for what they recommend - but thats aussie stuff and thats many years behind what they use in baja.

cheers bru

the 4l60e in Commodores are normally beefed up or replaced with a T400 for racing purposes as they can't handle the extra power in a 1500-1700kg car. I know of only 2 that are really pushing it in drag racing circles and one is only because it hasn't let go yet, and the other is because they wanted to prove a point and have spent lots of money to get it to hold together. Now put that into a patrol which weights what and has how much power?

jsttry wrote:the 4l60e in Commodores are normally beefed up or replaced with a T400 for racing purposes as they can't handle the extra power in a 1500-1700kg car. I know of only 2 that are really pushing it in drag racing circles and one is only because it hasn't let go yet, and the other is because they wanted to prove a point and have spent lots of money to get it to hold together. Now put that into a patrol which weights what and has how much power?

Good on ya. I had just finished coming to a decision and you throw this at me.

depends on if you are going to drive full throttle at max rpm? Is the car being built for that, or low rpm crawling and general driving? Remember the boxes being broken in Commodores I'm talking about are drag racing so high rpm full throttle

T400 would be my ideal, but not really the best onroad.

Other option is a 4l80e that is starting to become more common with the Commodore fans as a stronger alternative. If you are going for a 4L60e, at least get the 4l65e as its meant to be a little better (not sure myself what the differences are)

Although I plan to be reasonably gentle, well probably not, anyway the type of event I am building it up for is the 10 Hour rock crawling race with does have a lot of off again on again stabbing on the accelerator and some speed sections. Probably most will be low range though.

Shane

zackde wrote:

Suspension Stuff wrote:So you are saying that the easiest way to replace stuff if it breaks is to mate the LS1 to a Patrol auto with the adapter at this point.

If so, what are your thoughts about the stregth of the Patrol auto vs the strength of the 4L60E

I can not offer an opinion of the Nissan auto, but I am running a 4L65E behind an LS3 in a 80 series, while the GM 700's do have well know issues which I have personally experienced with this setup. There is tons of options and parts available to strengthen the GM auto, and the difficulties of getting the Nissan Auto to talk to the GM ECU in my opinion makes the 700 the way to go.
Sonnax do a lot of performance parts for all Auto's good website to visit, lots of tech articles.
http://www.sonnax.com/

Most of the nissan autos have a stand alone computer to run them. You just need to set up a throttle sensor.

Cris

Suspension Stuff wrote:Although I plan to be reasonably gentle, well probably not, anyway the type of event I am building it up for is the 10 Hour rock crawling race with does have a lot of off again on again stabbing on the accelerator and some speed sections. Probably most will be low range though.

Shane

I wouldnt be using a 4l60e, I spent about 4500 on my turbo 400. but 5000 will get yoiu a stout patrol box, this is shat i would be using in your application

imho you will not get anything to hold together for less money

swafftec was winch racing with a supercharged gen 3 in front of a gu patrol auto

Paul

Suspension Stuff wrote:Although I plan to be reasonably gentle, well probably not, anyway the type of event I am building it up for is the 10 Hour rock crawling race with does have a lot of off again on again stabbing on the accelerator and some speed sections. Probably most will be low range though.

Shane

I wouldnt be using a 4l60e, I spent about 4500 on my turbo 400. but 5000 will get yoiu a stout patrol box, this is shat i would be using in your application

imho you will not get anything to hold together for less money

swafftec was winch racing with a supercharged gen 3 in front of a gu patrol auto

a 4l80 would also work great, have an aftermarket standalone ecu available, but are very pricey

i dont see how you can get out of it cheeply, this race you want to do sounds like murder on a transmission

Paul

http://holmart.com.au/online/prod1906.htm

at this price I would go new if thats the box you want.

Pauwolf wrote:

Suspension Stuff wrote:Although I plan to be reasonably gentle, well probably not, anyway the type of event I am building it up for is the 10 Hour rock crawling race with does have a lot of off again on again stabbing on the accelerator and some speed sections. Probably most will be low range though.

Shane

I wouldnt be using a 4l60e, I spent about 4500 on my turbo 400. but 5000 will get yoiu a stout patrol box, this is shat i would be using in your application

imho you will not get anything to hold together for less money

transmission

Paul

Are you for real!
You can get a tough auto built for less that will hold up fine. Aslong as there is sufficiant cooling for the fluid.




I dont know why everyone keeps wanting to run autos that are electronic

A t400 would be better then an electronic auto but they are a big heavy box.
C4 all the way.
Shane on a decent hill or rock climb there will be times that you wished you went for a full manual box. Sometimes it is better to drive somethn in 2nd and not have to worry bout it jumping to first.

i would advise getting the advice off who ever you are going to get wire up your conversion, if its a 4l60e its easy, if you are going to run any other electric auto you will have dramas getting the to talk to each other. just because someone makes an adaptor to bolt the 2 together doesnt mean they will talk to each other, have a chat to killalux, he spent hours and hours trying to get a 80series auto to work behind a ls1, in the end it was still having issues, this was adaptor supplied by marks and when the owner rang to find out how to make the 2 work together there response was we have never got that far but any auto electrition should be able to make it work

at least speak to someone who is running the setup your looking at and find out if there are any issues you need to be aware of.

whats wrong with a nissan manual?

Might be just what you are looking for - bulletproof and cheap, easy to adapt etc. Do you really need an auto - I would only race with a manual auto anyway, then its only 3 speed on road whereas the manual is 5.

I just don't think there is a sub 5-10k auto that is suitable to race in a patrol long term and not DNF.

cheers bru

I'm now back at LS1 to TH400 to the Patrol transfer case. I am considering putting this in the Grand Cherokee while running Patrol diffs.

Shane

Suspension Stuff wrote:I'm now back at LS1 to TH400 to the Patrol transfer case. I am considering putting this in the Grand Cherokee while running Patrol diffs.

Shane

Hi Shane, i have asked a few times if its going to be road driven too, because its going to shit you to tears if ya dont have overdrive when driving on road!!!!!! Petty you cant use nissan autobox electric overdrive cause i'm sure they have there own stand computer mmmmmm i'm sure a member somewhere here has said the same thing!!!!!( electric technology is miss-understood/ hated disliked cause people dont know enough about them) But hey the end of the day its up to you what ya do cause like you said depends on your budget to what you can build.

I dont think it is that elctronic autos are misunderstood> There are issues with making things work. As some have said marks do the kit but dont give a toss bout the communication. Bit like puttn in a room an chinese bloke and an irish bloke and asking them to do a crossword together that in arabic.
If you look around most of the decent well know trucks around run hydro autos not electronic. WHY? cause it dumbs it down Less to go wrong. Easyier to fix in the bush. Perfect example Pete antunacs truck 6.0 Chev ON GAS. No computer and then he runs a C4 auto Hydro no wiring or electronics.
Bru I do think shane can get a C4 built for under 5 Gs and have it hold up. With the rim king comp or what eva its called now he will need a decent cooler with fan on it. Only thing C4s dont really like is being turned fast but i cant see Shane reving over say 6800rpm anyway.
Next on my list would be a T400 as bru said Chew a bit more power from the donk but hay Strong as shit and everything you want available for them.
End of the day though Shane I reckon the dumber the drive line is the better.

Each to their own, oh well its up to Shane what he does.

Suspension Stuff wrote:I have a Patrol and I have an LS1 and I am trying to decide whether I should buy a Patrol auto or an LS1 Auto.

Things to take into account are:-

Price
Ease of purchase if I stuff it
Which performs better off road.

OR should I sell the LS1 and purchase a 5.0L V8 and auto? I believe the autos are a little different in the bell housing or something.

Thanks
Shane

Ok i'm stuffed here!!!!!! this thread starts like this above, so is all this going into a patrol or a jeep as its states in the" JAWS" thread that its going into a jeep!!!! and i thought this was going into a patrol!!!! was i said to stick to nissan auto, ok i'm staying outer this one, sorry Shane.

Yeah it started a pootrol but seems to be a jeep now


I VOTE ELEVENTYBILLION for the JEEP

And i hate Jeeps

nottie wrote:Yeah it started a pootrol but seems to be a jeep now


I VOTE ELEVENTYBILLION for the JEEP

And i hate Jeeps

Might end up the first capable jeep ever.

Cris

If you use a nissan auto then you WILL want to use a full hydrulic valve body. Making the electrics work will be a huge pain in the arse, And i do talk from experience. Even once you do get it to shifty gears, the shift points will not match the LS1. LS1 redlines at 6500RPM, patrol is what? 4500RPM.

i personally run a 4l60e in my cruiser, is still fine, have just had shift pressures altered via ECU flash.
To get the 4l60 beefed up to 4l65e spec(better clutches and bands)
will only cost about an extra $900 whilst getting the shaft changed.

Don't forget running in low range will put less load on the gearbox (i think )

i personally run a 4l60e in my cruiser, is still fine, have just had shift pressures altered via ECU flash.
To get the 4l60 beefed up to 4l65e spec(better clutches and bands)
will only cost about an extra $900 whilst getting the shaft changed.

I would add a fair bit more coin if your upgrading to 4L65E specs 5 pinion planetary are well over $200 each 300m input shaft $$$$, plus most put in sonnax bushing kit, beast reaction shell and better servos, shift solenoids, it adds up real fast.
Cheers Zack

Ok, as you know, the body is connected to the engine which is connected to the auto, then transfer case, then driveshafts etc so I have to look at the project as a whole.

Because of the gearing of the Patrol transfer case won't be good enough for 40"+ tyres I have considered my options as far as gearing. By the time you add the gearing and then re building the auto to take the conversion, the price is getting up their so I have looked at other options more seriously.

Even though the Atlas would cost a little more then this, say $4000 I can get it with an adapter which just bolts up to the holden auto without pulling it apart. I then can get the 4 speed atlas which has a 1:1, 1:2.7, 1:3.8 and 1:10.3:1 ratios plus the bonus of front digs plus it is stronger and new.

Problem I do have is mating the transfer case to the driveshafts which I think will be a fairly cheap mod.

I am also considering the 4L80E auto because of the added strength and the ability to find one that isn't 20 years old. I still haven't ruled out all the holden autos but I have ruled out the Nissan auto for now because we can't mate up the atlas to the Nissan auto.

Shane