Outer Limits 4x4 Board

NICK wrote:

spazbot wrote:want 223:1 thats duals and 4.7 with 5.29s

thats what i think i will have, at this point i am about 90.1 with rear discounnect but due to the extra lenght cant fit the dualcase. When the rear disconnect brakes i will fit the dualcase. I currently have the AA 4.7 reduction.


NICK

i was more interested in that option for the gearing options , but it would be fun to go to low low 1st for crawling through the maccas drive through

Ruff .I am not claiming that a truck with two or three hundred to one gearing will go places that the same truck with one hundred to one wont go. It is just that under certain dangerous conditions or on very rough obstacles the lower geared truck can do things more gently and safely. Low gearing isn't for everyone, but why slag off at people who want it. There are a lot of people out there who probably think you don't need 38's. but if you want to run them goodluck to you. You may or may not be a wanker, but I am not going to judge you by the way you build your truck.
Bill.

POS wrote:MMMmm About 35:1

I am currently at 19:1 with 42" super swampers.

She is a little tall in the gearing, but fawk me if i can't get some wheelspeed.

daddylonglegs wrote:Ruff .I am not claiming that a truck with two or three hundred to one gearing will go places that the same truck with one hundred to one wont go. It is just that under certain dangerous conditions or on very rough obstacles the lower geared truck can do things more gently and safely. Low gearing isn't for everyone, but why slag off at people who want it. There are a lot of people out there who probably think you don't need 38's. but if you want to run them goodluck to you. You may or may not be a wanker, but I am not going to judge you by the way you build your truck.
Bill.

Hey I would love a bit more gearing dude, 19:1, with 42" tyres sure makes for a fast truck. Some guys I know are slower in high range :(

no point in going there slowly!

bj on roids wrote:

POS wrote:MMMmm About 35:1

I am currently at 19:1 with 42" super swampers.

She is a little tall in the gearing, but fawk me if i can't get some wheelspeed.

How come so little reduction??

daddylonglegs wrote:Ruff .I am not claiming that a truck with two or three hundred to one gearing will go places that the same truck with one hundred to one wont go. It is just that under certain dangerous conditions or on very rough obstacles the lower geared truck can do things more gently and safely. Low gearing isn't for everyone, but why slag off at people who want it. There are a lot of people out there who probably think you don't need 38's. but if you want to run them goodluck to you. You may or may not be a wanker, but I am not going to judge you by the way you build your truck.
Bill.

I agree to a point, but recently there was a vid of gregs Zyk getting around that very nearly endo'd due in part to being in way to low of a gear, The driver simply could not make the vehicle dive fasted doen the hill that the back wanted to go down the hill .. so it almost overtook the front. I ahve also see a few vids form the US with lux's etc with monster low gearing doing similar things on steep downhills ...

That said .. I do want to have a 110:1 low or lower

There should be no problem with the 10 spline spudshaft for the Lt230 transfercase holding up. They are the same size as a Rangey axle but only receive one tenth of the gear reduction. and like a rangey axle they are also fully floating and do not have to cope with side loading. They only ever suffered from corrosion fretting of the spline due to lack of oil.
BJ, even the early 3speed lancruisers had a crawl ratio of 26:1. What have you done to yours?
Yes, you can get yourself in trouble if you use too low a gear for certain conditions, but surely that would be driver error. The gears are there if you need them. it is not compulsory to use them all the time. That is why we have multiple speed gearboxes and multi speed t/cases.
Incidently, 278:1 is not as slow as some people may think. At 700 rpm idle the truck moves at 7 metres per minute. It is not as if you can't detect forward motion
Bill.

7m a min HAHA

That will be handy

daddylonglegs wrote:Yes, you can get yourself in trouble if you use too low a gear for certain conditions, but surely that would be driver error. The gears are there if you need them. it is not compulsory to use them all the time. That is why we have multiple speed gearboxes and multi speed t/cases.
Incidently, 278:1 is not as slow as some people may think. At 700 rpm idle the truck moves at 7 metres per minute. It is not as if you can't detect forward motion
Bill.

I guess thats where multiple gearbox's are better as it allows a greater range of gears, with some of the T/cases (for Suzuki's especially) there are gear sets as low as 8:1 reduction .. making 5th low lower than 1st high ..

MKPatrolGuy wrote:

bj on roids wrote:

POS wrote:MMMmm About 35:1

I am currently at 19:1 with 42" super swampers.

She is a little tall in the gearing, but fawk me if i can't get some wheelspeed.

How come so little reduction??

just can't afford decent gear reduction, im a poverty stricken STUDent! and so on

daddylonglegs wrote:There should be no problem with the 10 spline spudshaft for the Lt230 transfercase holding up. They are the same size as a Rangey axle but only receive one tenth of the gear reduction. and like a rangey axle they are also fully floating and do not have to cope with side loading. They only ever suffered from corrosion fretting of the spline due to lack of oil.
BJ, even the early 3speed lancruisers had a crawl ratio of 26:1. What have you done to yours?
Yes, you can get yourself in trouble if you use too low a gear for certain conditions, but surely that would be driver error. The gears are there if you need them. it is not compulsory to use them all the time. That is why we have multiple speed gearboxes and multi speed t/cases.
Incidently, 278:1 is not as slow as some people may think. At 700 rpm idle the truck moves at 7 metres per minute. It is not as if you can't detect forward motion
Bill.

Bill, I would dearly love around 50:1, as I think this would be optimal, for my powerband, as well as allow me great flexibility as well as a GREAT low range ability.

The three speed transfer cases had a lower low range than the later model stuff in some cases. A landcruiser split case, incidently the only landcruiser case I would run, has a reduction of 1:1.963, in a landcruiser, and 2.28:1 in a Bundera.

MY auto box is an A340, i believe first gear to be around 2.033, my transfer case is a standard hilux unit, with a low range reduction of 2.28:1, and my diffs are landcruiser 80 series rears (both of them) with 4.10 reduction.

That leaves me around 19:1, it is a little tall with the 42s, but I have found if I am up against a big ledge, i hold my foot on the brakes, stall it up and let it launch, then it handles the gearing alright, ideally, I would like to be in the vicinity of 40-50:1 as mentioned earlier, but I am poor both monetarily and with time constraints. Plus I would rather spend my spare time wheeling, then getting dirty fixing pieces of shit!

In second and third and fourth, my gearing goes through the ROOF!!

bj on roids wrote:

POS wrote:MMMmm About 35:1

I am currently at 19:1 with 42" super swampers.

She is a little tall in the gearing, but fawk me if i can't get some wheelspeed.

my first gear high range is bout 30:1

fawk all = 52:1
2.4 x 1.81 x 2.28 x 5.29

oh yeah and a 4000rpm stall

dunno wot min is coz i dont know the gearbox ratio or wot the tranny ratio is but some1 wil do it 4 me

std 5spd - dual case - 4.88 diffs - 37" MTR's

i think its bout 100 - 115 : 1

and with the turbo diesel its great i woodnt want any lower i only ever use double low 3rd and std low 1st off road wen trying 2 drive somthin,,

i only every use double low 1st and 2nd of im climbing somthing real steep with lots of traction other wise there reduction is 2 great and i cant go anywhere..

i think any more than 130:1 is just a waste

daddylonglegs wrote:Ruff .I am not claiming that a truck with two or three hundred to one gearing will go places that the same truck with one hundred to one wont go. It is just that under certain dangerous conditions or on very rough obstacles the lower geared truck can do things more gently and safely. Low gearing isn't for everyone, but why slag off at people who want it. There are a lot of people out there who probably think you don't need 38's. but if you want to run them goodluck to you. You may or may not be a wanker, but I am not going to judge you by the way you build your truck.
Bill.

Sorry Bill i think you may have misread what im trying to say. Im not calling anyone a Wanker. Running such low gearing is no different to me to myself running a chrome grill. I dont need it but it looks cool and this is the main reason most people are going for ultra low gearing and the only reason i run a Chrome Grill(It looks Cool). I have never come across a time where i thought more than 100:1 would make this obstical easier to drive. And up here we drive some crazy stuff.

So i run a Chrome Grill for the Wank Factor

daddylonglegs wrote:There should be no problem with the 10 spline spudshaft for the Lt230 transfercase holding up. They are the same size as a Rangey axle but only receive one tenth of the gear reduction. and like a rangey axle they are also fully floating and do not have to cope with side loading. They only ever suffered from corrosion fretting of the spline due to lack of oil.
Bill.

Remember im allready running a low range gear set in front of this at 2.28:1. I have allready snapped a Hilux input and a Hilux output now this is why im concerned about the LT230 input. I have seen these in our buggies cop an absolute flogging behind ZF autos but i think they are a little softer on them. There is no sudden shock load like dropping the clutch at 4000rpm+.

Ok Ruff, no probs. I still think the spud shaft will give you no hassles as the full floating feature alone would be equivelant to a 50% diameter increase. But in the unlikely event that you need a bigger spud shaft you could have Jacmacs broach a bigger spline into an old transfercase gear.
As you may be aware, we have the crazy tracks down here in Vic too, with some precarious drop offs and I like the peace of mind of having that very low gear ratio available. it has saved my bacon on at least 2 occaisions.
Regards Bill.

BJ, your effective low range when you factor in the 2:1 torque convertor is 38:1 but you probably already know that.
Years ago, a customer got me to fit a set of Landcruiser 3.7:1 axle assemblies to a CJ6 jeep which had a 351 GT Falcon engine and Top loader gearbox fitted. Well that vehicle wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding off road. when we calculated the crawl ratio in low low it worked out at just over 17:1, and of course no torque converter, so in mountain regions it was always having to be driven much too fast to avoid stalling.
Not only was that bloody dangerous but it was also pretty hard on suspension, chassis and running gear.
Bill.

My low is 49:1 With 33's and a landrover 2.25 diesel it is OK but could be a bit lower.

Shorty40 wrote:Can anyone tell me why they need 200:1 ? Or is it just wank factor ?

ATM I only have rockhopper low range gears and am MORE than happy with my low range gearing, heck I haven`t used 1st low for about 2 years. The reason I want a 2nd T case is NOT for the 200+ to 1. I want a 2nd T case so that I can have the option of standard low range as well as the low range I have now which I could do with just the 2 case and standard low range gears. But since I allready have the rockhoppers I`m thinking I might as well use them aswell, which yes the wank factor comes into it as does "because I can"

131.76 to 1 in the sierra, could be lower, tyre size is the killer.

37:1 atm
very very soon
100:1
that will do me just fine
yer

83 lux wrote:37:1 atm
very very soon
100:1
that will do me just fine
yer

how did it all go?


NICK

daddylonglegs wrote:BJ, your effective low range when you factor in the 2:1 torque convertor is 38:1 but you probably already know that.

I did, although, its a fluid connection, the common figure given is 2:1, it is very hard to estimate or give an exact figure, so that is the common number given to overcome difficulties in measuring the torque converter reduction. At least, that is my version of it.

daddylonglegs wrote:it was always having to be driven much too fast to avoid stalling.
Not only was that bloody dangerous but it was also pretty hard on suspension, chassis and running gear.
Bill.

that last sentence pretty much sums me up, plus the 42s dont help, neither does me driving, but I have fun, and the truck looks cool. What more do you want? Except maybe to beat Sam.

about 32.1

I am now running rockhoppers, so crawl ratio is 69:1

110:1

currently at 52:1 (3.32 x 3.32 x 4.7)
will be 54:1 (3.32 x 3.32 x 4.88) after the Toy swap in a couple of weeks.

Ideally would want to be at 69:1 (3.32 x 4.3 x 4.88) with the Maxi Drive gears - but 1.5K $ is way too much right now!!!

daddylonglegs wrote:
BJ, your effective low range when you factor in the 2:1 torque convertor is 38:1 but you probably already know that.

I dont understand
most convertors have between 3 and 10% slip so how can this double the effective gearing. using 2:1 to show the partially locked up area in the rev range of an auto is sooooo funny. if a stock convertor (approx 1600-2000rpm stall speed) is theoretically 2:1 then my 4300rpm converter should be 4.3:1, so my total effective ratio would be 2.4 x 1.81 x 2.28 x 5.29 x 4.3 = 225.3:1

damn 200+ : 1

Guts wrote:

Shorty40 wrote:Can anyone tell me why they need 200:1 ? Or is it just wank factor ?

ATM I only have rockhopper low range gears and am MORE than happy with my low range gearing, heck I haven`t used 1st low for about 2 years. The reason I want a 2nd T case is NOT for the 200+ to 1. I want a 2nd T case so that I can have the option of standard low range as well as the low range I have now which I could do with just the 2 case and standard low range gears. But since I allready have the rockhoppers I`m thinking I might as well use them aswell, which yes the wank factor comes into it as does "because I can"

You are spot on Guts, I have a 6:1 transfer and 5.125 diff gears turning 33" tyres on my zook, I love the control that comes with low gears but if I was to go a second tranfer case I could run a taller diff ratio to save my engine (4500rpm@ 100kph ) and still have my low range.
When I had 400 cubes in a L/Cruiser gearing wasn't a big issue, I could let the revs get real low and not stall, I am not saying that cubes are a substitute for gears, (well mabee a bit ) but from my own experiance it wasn't as important with 6.6 liters as it is with 1.6.
Peter.