Anyone put GQ diffs under their RR

[daddylonglegs]

I agree with almost everything you say Daryl, but I was just trying to point out that regardless of how strong Nissan and Toyota Landcruisers are, if you apply the 25mm rule you cannot legally run 35/36 inch tyres on them, whereas on a Landrover you can. one other point that applies to series LandRovers at least, is that the 1 ton wheel rims had 65mm more positive offset than the standard swb rim. that means that the wheel track
was 130 mm wider for the same width axle assembly. If you add the extra 25 mm per side that the RTA permits this allows you to legally use a tall, moderately wide tyre such as Simex 35/36'' or Q78 Superswamper with enough offset to maintain a reasonable steering lock.
If you currently use or intend to use big tyres and are concerned about future legislation then my advice is to do whatever you like to the diff centres and halfshafts, but keep the LandRover/RangeRover axle housings,swivels, hubs etc, not because they are better than anything else, but because that is the about the only way that your vehicle would still be legal.
Anyway that was the argument I put to the engineer to approve Nigels Hybrid LandRover and it was accepted.
Bill.

[Davidh]

On the last Outerlimits trip to Gembrook, there was a Rangie on the night drive that had 60 series diff's front and rear. His problem was snapping wheel studs, not diff's!

Wish we all had that problem, instead of inner axles, diff centres etc.

I think it had a Chev or Holden donk in it too. Someone else here should know about it?

[daddylonglegs]

I would like a dollar for every broken Toyata wheel stud I have found in the bush. And if I had 10 dollars for every broken Landcruiser transfercase I have found I wouldn't be a rich man, but I would have fourty five dollars.

[The Fish]

On the last Outerlimits trip to Gembrook, there was a Rangie on the night drive that had 60 series diff's front and rear. His problem was snapping wheel studs, not diff's!

Wish we all had that problem, instead of inner axles, diff centres etc.

I think it had a Chev or Holden donk in it too. Someone else here should know about it?

Yeah, that rangie runs a chev 350 with the 60 series diffs and now has the stub upgrade done so it will be interesting to see what becomes the next week point.

[Dozoor]

Bill , Do you know whether the axle hole inner diameter on the stub on the rear salisbury series 3
diff , larger then a RR ?

Larry.

[ISUZUROVER]

I would like a dollar for every broken Toyata wheel stud I have found in the bush. And if I had 10 dollars for every broken Landcruiser transfercase I have found I wouldn't be a rich man, but I would have fourty five dollars.

So Bill how can you find half a broken toyota T-case??? Or is that 4 t-cases and 5 wheel studs???

[ISUZUROVER]

Bill , Do you know whether the axle hole inner diameter on the stub on the rear salisbury series 3
diff , larger then a RR ?

Larry.

I think they are the same. It's been a while since I compared one though. I know the locking dog splines on my Maxi-Drive axle won't fit through either stub axle, so if there is a difference it can't be much.

[derangedrover]

While everyone is thinking about it...

Rasing the rear balljoint mount on the diff would lower and shorten the instant centre and create more anti-squat?

If you replaced the upper a frame and run a parrallel pair of links from gq housing original upper mounts to rangie chassis and run a panhard the geometry for roll centre and antisquat stays the same but the articulation dynamic changes?


Cheers
Daryl

[daddylonglegs]

The axle hole diameter in the spindles is the same on Rangeys and Landrover series 1,2,3, 110 and Defenders. I don't know if boring out the spindles to fit 30spline axles is acceptable from an engineering point of view, but I doubt it, and I would not accept it if I were an engineer.
Ben ,yes your correct. over the years I have found 5 broken Toyota wheel studs and actually three and a half , but I count it as 4 destroyed transfercases from early 4 speed landcruisers.
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

I think the easiest (and most reliable) thing to do if you need larger stub axles is buy the Jac Mac ones made for 35 spline axles. You have to change to different bearings to keep the material thickness large enough.

There have been some pics on pirate of bored stub axles to fit 30 spline axles. I don't think there have been many problems with them but I wouldn't do it. Given that when I bought my IIA (rolled) it had a bent stub axle from the roll.

[daddylonglegs]

A mate of mine had one of his Mcnamara 35 spline spindles which were made from 4140, metalurgically analysed at a cost of $90 before his engineer (Ken Mccarg) would certify the modification. The Metalurgist concluded that although the spindle had a considerably greater cross sectional area of material compared to original,it was only just equal in shear strength and fatigue resistance. Apparently Rover spindles were made from some fairly expensive high quality steel.
Bill.

[tjames]

Just a Question and i apologise if its a repeat but from what i can gather the gq rear axle isnt a full floater am i correct thanks.

Thomas

[ISUZUROVER]

Just a Question and i apologise if its a repeat but from what i can gather the gq rear axle isnt a full floater am i correct thanks.

Thomas

You are correct it is a semi-float rear. I believe one model had a full float rear.

[tjames]

thanks isuzurover im thinking of going gq diffs in mine, atm i have f+r maxis but ive already done one rear cw&p and dont really want to do another cos i dont like big bangs.

Thomas

[daddylonglegs]

Thomas, The Gu Nissan leaf spring cab and chassis or traybacks have a huge fully floating rear diff. Maybe the Gq's do too, but they would not suit a Rangey.
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

thanks isuzurover im thinking of going gq diffs in mine, atm i have f+r maxis but ive already done one rear cw&p and dont really want to do another cos i dont like big bangs.

Thomas

If you already have the Maxi Drive lockers, you can fit hilux ring and pinions onto your redrilled maxidrive diff centre and run them in a hilux diff centre casing. So your setup would be the same as it is at the moment just with toyota ring and pinions and a toyota diff case. You would retain all the maxi-drive bits and have no engineering to pass. Apart from redrilling flanges all you need are special bearings to fit the MD rover centre into the toy housing. Do a search this has been covered here before.

[daddylonglegs]

Ben, I have remachined a McNamara Hilux difflock carrier to fit into a Rover centre and I had to reduce the carrier bearing journal diameters, and the distance between carrier bearings also had to be reduced as well as machining down the crownwheel locating diameter. A lot of work, but I was removing metal. To go the other way and make a Rover type carrier fit a hilux means you would have to increase all those diameters by sleeving .
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben, I have remachined a McNamara Hilux difflock carrier to fit into a Rover centre and I had to reduce the carrier bearing journal diameters, and the distance between carrier bearings also had to be reduced as well as machining down the crownwheel locating diameter. A lot of work, but I was removing metal. To go the other way and make a Rover type carrier fit a hilux means you would have to increase all those diameters by sleeving .
Bill.

You have more experience with it than me Bill, but I read somewhere that someone did it, and I thought they just used larger bearings and maybe some shims... will have a search.

[derangedrover]

I spoke to Mcnamara about this.
The details are still here if you search.
He thought is was possible but hadn't done it and I never got around to looking at it before I sold my rangie with maxi's.
I would trust daddylonglegs on this one though, Mcnamara only gave me dimensions etc for making the crownwheel crossover and said there would be a bearing that would match the different diameters but never mentioned the fact that the carrier is shorther across the bearing journals.

Cheers
Daryl

[red90]

A mate of mine had one of his Mcnamara 35 spline spindles which were made from 4140, metalurgically analysed at a cost of $90 before his engineer (Ken Mccarg) would certify the modification. The Metalurgist concluded that although the spindle had a considerably greater cross sectional area of material compared to original,it was only just equal in shear strength and fatigue resistance. Apparently Rover spindles were made from some fairly expensive high quality steel.

Frikkin useless engineers!!! I'm an engineer, so trust me, I know that 99% of the profession is full of useless t%^ts.

A spindle would fail in bending, not shear. Being larger diameter, the bending strength would have to be much higher. I'd also seriously doubt Rover is using something stronger and better in fatique strength than 4140 in the spindles. I'd love to see what you get for a $90 analysis. I don't think my metallurgist would pick up the phone for that. A proper analsysis would require sectioning as there is probably surface hardening in the stock items.

[daddylonglegs]

I am glad you said it Red90, because I agree 100% with your views about most engineers.I mean, just take a look at the f**k ups that the LandRover engineers have made throughout their history. If I wasn't such a nice guy I'd like to line them up against the wall and use them for target practice. One RtA engineer over here that I spoke to about fitting greatly oversize wheels or duall wheels to a LandRover told me that if the truck has fully floating hubs then he doesn't care how big the wheels are or how great the back spacing, he will allow it. The engineer that approved Nigels Hybrid wanted me to remove the 35 spline McNamara Salisbury rear end and refit the standard Rangerover one because the 4.6 litre engine we were using wasn't available in Salisbury diff equipped Landrovers !
To hell with being a nice guy, where is my Magnum ?
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

A mate of mine had one of his Mcnamara 35 spline spindles which were made from 4140, metalurgically analysed at a cost of $90 before his engineer (Ken Mccarg) would certify the modification. The Metalurgist concluded that although the spindle had a considerably greater cross sectional area of material compared to original,it was only just equal in shear strength and fatigue resistance. Apparently Rover spindles were made from some fairly expensive high quality steel.

Frikkin useless engineers!!! I'm an engineer, so trust me, I know that 99% of the profession is full of useless t%^ts.

A spindle would fail in bending, not shear. Being larger diameter, the bending strength would have to be much higher. I'd also seriously doubt Rover is using something stronger and better in fatique strength than 4140 in the spindles. I'd love to see what you get for a $90 analysis. I don't think my metallurgist would pick up the phone for that. A proper analsysis would require sectioning as there is probably surface hardening in the stock items.

Good point John - I agree 100% - I missed that one when Bill first posted it.

Speaking of useless engineers I am reminded of the person who graduated with the highest marks at the end of my degree - part of her major final design project included a stormwater pipe that started at 2.5m AHD (above sea level for non engineers) had a fall of 1 in 100 and ran for 300m. When this was pointed out she couldn't see the problem!!!

[GURU]

First. if clearance under diffs is such a big issue....SHAVE them, shave nissans and that will re gain what you would loose. Infact all you guys running toy centres in RR case's you should all shave them as you would gain quite a considerable amout of clearance due to smaller CW and the fact there is already room to shave with stock RR centre.

Second. Why is there a problem with the A frame ball joint mounting higher on the diff casing? If you have a 2" spring lift you should have a ball joint spaced down 2". A problem would occer if you were to run standard height springs, but anyone running nissan diffs won't be running standard height.

[JemmyBubbles]

More dumb prolly done to death questions....

What if you were to aquire complete diffs w/factory diff lockers from a toyota troopy ?

I imagine would be the same hassle as fitting 60 series diffs....but w/ lockers..... ever been done ???

[Dozoor]

Rained today , so i sat infront of this thing and done a bit of a paper chase , done somthing similar once befor for a different make ,

every body on hear should know whet a tight arse i am by now

I still need some measurments and to actually see some things But

I don,t like the idea of boring out the stubs as the others have stated as well, so been looking at using the toyota stubs on the rover housing and using the rover hubs ,

Im going to post on the toy threads for some measurments on the stub length , Ive got a pic and i chased and cross matched the bearings

Even found a suprise in there , If somone has these bits they might like to take some measurments,

what i have so far could be a start ,

toy axle bearings

inner
od 82mm
id 50mm
w 21.500mm
outer
od 73.431
id 45.242
w 19.553

RR have same inner outer
od 77.778
id 45.242
w 19.842

RR 93/97
od 73.431
id 45.242
w 19.553

Notice some thing,
Ofcouse there 8is a lot more to it than that dimension wise but
It does show some good pionts ,
If somone has both stubs handy a comparison would be great ,

Little more outrageous but the stubs have been a bit of stumbling block for stronger rears in this housing Offcourse you can buy bigger but would be good to find a cheap alternative ,
My thoughts are mainly for my comp car im biulding , so the continuation of this could lead to , a machined down mini spool for 31 spline ford In a toy 4 pin centre , (only 0.01 bigger then the toy axles ) use double splined circuit axles and willwood drive plates , The ford axles are avialable of the rack from 25" thru 40" , http://www.stockcarproducts.com/axle1.htm

Thoughts ?

Larry.

[daddylonglegs]

I dont have Toy stubs on hand to compare with Rangey ones but from memory I think the Toy bearings are spaced much further apart than even early Rangey/Landeys so you would probably have to shorten the Toy spindles and recut the threads for the spindle nuts. I don't think you could bore out the Rover hubs to 83 mm to accept the Toy inner bearing, but you could use a LM102949/910Q bearing kit. The cone has a 50mm ID and the cup must be sleeved up from 73mm OD to 77.778mm. I personally prefer to run my hub bearings in oil so the hub seal ring on the Toy spindle would be resized to accept the Rangey double lipped double spring oil seal.
Bill.

[daddylonglegs]

Disregard that bearing number. I measured the wrong one. I have a Landy 110 hub at work that I fitted bearings with a 50mm ID but I dont recall the OD or the part number.
Bill.

[tjames]

Thanks for the replies guys im not really worried about the full/semi floating side of things atm as I am still looking at my options and expenses etc, I had been looking at the toy axles but am a bit worried about the cost of such things, plus with a standard unmodified axle (nissans) you dont have things like special bearings or sleeves etc that could have the capacity to be expensive or a PITA to replace if something does go wrong, again thanks for your input guys I will keep looking in to it and see how we go, who knows might have some maxi's to sell in a couple of months.

Thomas

[GURU]

broke a disco rear 24 spline axle today, clean break. So over Rover shit.

Bring on the Nissans.

will have the 4.1 maxi CWP and a ARB locker for sale soon

why do you want to run 80 series diffs??? those guys break front CWP alot and CV's aren't strong either.

[LOCKEE]

MacNamara modified my maxidrive locker about 8 years ago and fitted to to one of their hypoid housings. Worked well apart from longevity issues with the 4.7 CWP. Three sets to do 90,000km. Was on a 90 mockup and 35 to 36 tyres all the time. Didn't break just wore out and got noisey.

Would only use genuine toyota CWP's if did it agin or fit Nissan Stuff.