Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Quadcamshorty,

If u don't mind me asking, what do you do for living?

you sounds positive about the power output on your setup.

Cheers

Grant

i own a performance workshop call ICE Performance.

We specialise in Jap import cars, GTR's, Supra's, Silvia's etc, and have in-house dyno dynamics dyno.

So I have plenty of experience in turbo's, engine management etc, but havnt spent much time around the TB motor.
If its anything like the other nissan engines, then all will be good.

Give us a buzz at the factory if you want any further info or pricing.
(03)95127591 ask for nigel.

cheers

Hey,

I heard of ICE Performance, the workshop that built most powerful car in autosalon melb dyno?

Do you have dyno at your workshop? If so, how much is it for a shootout mode (like autosalon)?

And have you any idea of how much for service RB30ET (minor)

Cheers

Grant

mcjeff,

Yeh thats us. We are in the process of making more power out of it atm.
My supra has made 575kw atw and another gtr should make well over 550kw atw also at the autosalon in a few weeks.

Quick dyno run would be $60, for that you get a couple of pulls, monitoring boost, afr's etc.

Servicing really depend on the quality of oils, plugs that go in.

Give us a buzz to talk it over.

cheers

Quadcamshorty wrote:mcjeff,

Yeh thats us. We are in the process of making more power out of it atm.
My supra has made 575kw atw and another gtr should make well over 550kw atw also at the autosalon in a few weeks.

Quick dyno run would be $60, for that you get a couple of pulls, monitoring boost, afr's etc.

Servicing really depend on the quality of oils, plugs that go in.

Give us a buzz to talk it over.

cheers

Gotta get me one of them. Or maybe just a R33GTST(with auto).

Hey Quadcamshorty,

I might pop in sometime next week...

i'm curious the reason you are building turbo'd TB42 is to tow your 2JZ Supra? or i'm wrong?

575Kw @ wheels! thats lots of power! imagine this strapped into a fourby!

Cheers

Grant

mcleff,

Yeh mate drop in.

The reason for building the tb, is cause its slow as fuck now and i miss getting out bush, camping, and trashin something around and not having to worry about the cops every five minutes.
Also i had alot of the parts already, ie turbo, ecu, inj, pump etc.

grazza - that would be the best comeback to a smart ass remark i have ever read on forum.

especially over the usual not so clever name calling that appears all too often on forums like these

My mistake i misread, sorry dude

Try Gas Research in Dandenong. One guy there has a SWB with TB42 turbo on straight LPG.

Ring Johnsons performance centre ,Thomastown,Vic. Ask for Mark. Forced induction is their spec.My tb 42 turb/int runs 220 kw rear wheels on optimax,190kw on unleaded with 36's.Will rev to 6000 but i run shift light as power flattens out after 5000.Power curve depends on Turbo, fuel,engine ,computer components and how you want it tuned.Mark just built new Turbo system for a mates gq tb42 it made 310kw with 35's.Power is very slow down low but awesome up high. I run 36's with 4.1's and in the OBC i never needed low range.

birrdy (vic yellow GQ ute) runs a TB42 turbo setup with external wastgate (I think) that makes some very impressive figrures, or so i've heard
That was done by JPC performance

seen it in action at the QLD winch challanges it hauls ass BIG TIME !!

BIRRDY'S UTE WAS BUILT BY ONTRACK 4X4 ,, 307RWKW ON 36'S, IT HAULS ASS APPRANTLY

birrdy's first tb was biult by jpc it was twin turbo gas only

nastytroll wrote:birrdy's first tb was biult by jpc it was twin turbo gas only

but that was when he was running 220rwk andrew has built his latest motor that now puts out 307rkw


andrew knows his stuff, his got a TB48 turbo

That was my Shorty with the turbo 4.2, HottieMonster bought the setup as I'm building a new vehicle Gen 3 and to4zr should do 350 rw kw easy as have done similar setups in commorores that make 400 rw kw. I EFI'd and turbo'd Henry from Pro-comps GQ Wagon (Homer simpson on the bonnet) have fitted and tuned countless for non-competition vehicles including. Make sure whatever you do youll want valve springs, i'd keep it to 6000 rpm, with the stock camshaft the power will be falling off anyway. I wouldnt fit a big cam as you dont want to loose the low down torque, dont drop more than 1/2 point in comp either or it will be a bitch to drive, it will be all or nothing. I wound mine back from 18 psi to 14 psi as I used to be too much to handle, it would torque steer left into trees under power and it was hard to keep the front wheels on the ground.
Aim fro a broad powerband dont make the mistake of looking for a big figure, this is why I went a bigger engine and turbo but running less boost for greater driveablility
Good Luck

Joel

With Birdys dyno run. Didnt it lift the head of the block during the last run. And thats why its been rebuilt since?
I drop in to annoy them some times and I have seen birdys old pistons that fell apart when they came out.

Did that happen with the TB48. ?

Wouldn't mind knowing what happened. Costly exercise if it did.

Grant.

hey joel (pgs 4x4) why you and scotty want 350 rwkw easy and more, i saw what you did with 200rwkw.

GQ4.8coilcab wrote:

nastytroll wrote:birrdy's first tb was biult by jpc it was twin turbo gas only

but that was when he was running 220rwk andrew has built his latest motor that now puts out 307rkw


andrew knows his stuff, his got a TB48 turbo

I'm attempting to get a broader spread of power, small cam and low boost with more cubes, the down, or up, side is its hard to make that little power from this combo.

I wonder about some of the dyno figures thrown around, I've run one that I consider accurate but I know many are not. For example

On early Dyno Dynamics dynos the rollers (front to rear) are not connected so as the vehicle moves forward off the rear roller the power figure goes up as the vehicle is now only pushing 2 rollers not 4, I know of shops that tie the car forward to keep the vehicle off the front roller.

Another one I came across recently was while borrowing a dyno from another shop, the humidity had been set to 400%, this increased the figures by about 50%.

I have seen data log sheets where the ambient temperature have been in excess of 100 degrees c (one recently was a HP shootout ute caliaming some 1800 rw Hp) the air temp was over 200 degrees.

Dynos are designed with compensation to allow for variations in weather not for fudging.

Another 4wd claims to make power in excess of the capacity of the turbo by about 50 HP and Garrett aren't conservative.

If your getting a dyno run get the data log that shows, Ambient temp, humdity, barometric pressure, this will help you with knowing there is some validity the figures.

Be sure if you are getting your vehicle tuned that there are no significant differences in these things.

Dyno Dynamics dynos also have an edit function, guess what thats for.

Joel

PGS 4WD wrote:I'm attempting to get a broader spread of power, small cam and low boost with more cubes, the down, or up, side is its hard to make that little power from this combo.

I wonder about some of the dyno figures thrown around, I've run one that I consider accurate but I know many are not. For example

On early Dyno Dynamics dynos the rollers (front to rear) are not connected so as the vehicle moves forward off the rear roller the power figure goes up as the vehicle is now only pushing 2 rollers not 4, I know of shops that tie the car forward to keep the vehicle off the front roller.

Another one I came across recently was while borrowing a dyno from another shop, the humidity had been set to 400%, this increased the figures by about 50%.

I have seen data log sheets where the ambient temperature have been in excess of 100 degrees c (one recently was a HP shootout ute caliaming some 1800 rw Hp) the air temp was over 200 degrees.

Dynos are designed with compensation to allow for variations in weather not for fudging.

Another 4wd claims to make power in excess of the capacity of the turbo by about 50 HP and Garrett aren't conservative.

If your getting a dyno run get the data log that shows, Ambient temp, humdity, barometric pressure, this will help you with knowing there is some validity the figures.

Be sure if you are getting your vehicle tuned that there are no significant differences in these things.

Dyno Dynamics dynos also have an edit function, guess what thats for.

Joel

I wish you were based in Sydney.

People in the know when it comes to TB42 engines are non- existence over here.

raptorthumper wrote:Did that happen with the TB48. ?

Wouldn't mind knowing what happened. Costly exercise if it did.

Grant.

Nah Birdys was a TB42 and it had been used for racing and play for a number of years.

Did anyone notice the 1.37 correction factor on the dyno printout?? That means the figures are being multiplied by 1.37 or 37% to allow for atmospheric data that has been entered into the dyno.
224 + 37 % = 307 rwkw.
Thats the true uncorrected power 224 rw kw
Joel

PGS 4WD wrote:Did anyone notice the 1.37 correction factor on the dyno printout?? That means the figures are being multiplied by 1.37 or 37% to allow for atmospheric data that has been entered into the dyno.
224 + 37 % = 307 rwkw.
Thats the true uncorrected power 224 rw kw
Joel

Does every dyno have this? What about dyno dynamics? would it be on the sheet anywhere.

What do you mean by true uncorrected power? is the '307' a load of crap?

Cheers

Zac

All modern dynos do this, most show somewhere the correction factors either in the graph or the data line chart.
Dyno dynamics info is usually at the bottom.
The correction is there to allow for diferences in the day if you run a car days weeks or years apart, the info entered consists of barometric pressure, humidity and air temp. Some dyno's automatically enter Baro and air temp the map sensor and a temp probe. I use the temp probe to measure the room temp, some people put them in the engine bay or intake pipes where the air temps are considerably higher, the dyno then compensates, making its calctulations on what the power would be given the reduced amount of oxygen in the air at a higher temp, higher humidity or barometric pressue. Usual variation would be less than 10% or 1.05 correction to 0.95 correction. To generate a 37% variation, the air temp would have to be huge, in excess of 100 degrees, similarly, I experienced on another dyno the humidity had been entered at 400% this equated to a correction factor of 1.5 or 50%. The highest humidity I have ever seen is 90% and its muggy like just before a summer storm.
You need this info to know if you dyno run is valid, you can see how easy it could be to make the figures higher than they are in reality should you want to.
Joel

Very interesting. Thanks for the great posts.

Cheers

Zac

Pgs, I hate to disagree but the correction factor equtes to 1.37%.

All Mainline dynos have this, they all have an inbuilt weather station to calculate this correction. We have a Mainline 2wd dyno, the highest correction i have seen is 6%, that was a 35c day with 70+ % humidity, dont know what the baro was.. It also has an inlet air temp probe for doing that particular measurement, but this has no bearing on power outcomes.

I know the owners of MPC, they arent interested in fudginging figures. Yes it is true that letting a car run up on the front rollers makes more power, thats why we use four straps to tie all vehicles down, then nothing moves and we get consitency in our results.

If you want more info on correction factors I can post a link, but it will always be the same thing, dyno dynamics vs mainline, bit like holden vs ford.

Andy

I confess I'm not familiar withthe mainline dyno, the correction factor I saw is directly off the printout top left corner bottom line, I know with a DTS or dyno dynamics dyno this figure is derived from the information gathered and entered, the gathered air temp comes from a sensor that is usually able to be located anywhere within reach of the dyno cabling, I agree 100% that you would not normally see more that a total 10% correction from the normal, normal being one. A correction factor of 1.37 on A DTS or Dyno Dyamics would be the measured figure * 1.37.
There is a thread about turbo TB42 that has a printout showing the correction factor as I would expect to see it. The correction factor should comply with sae standard marked beside the number.
I have a tune on Monday and I'll adjust the humidity and location of the air temp to demonstate the difference in figures.
I'm not suggesting anyone is necessarily fudging figures but if you put the temp probe into the boost air stream the air temp may be 70 + degrees, this will effect the reading, some people do this, I choose to leave my air temp probe showing room temp. People shouldn't be taking these figure as gospel is my point.
I have just read Mainlines data sheet and it seems to be a quality dyno. Where using SAE J607 the maximum variation is capped to 10 percent, so what you are saying would be right at 1.37 percent, unfortunatly there is no standard in how this info is presented so I made the wrong assumption based on the dynos I have experince with.
Its a good read and goes into lost inertia through diferrent tyres too.
http://www.mainlineauto.com.au/products ... CURATE.PDF

If people are aware of what to look out for and to ensure their testing is all done on the same dyno they'd be a lot happier and confident the information is correct.

Joel

Joel,

it appears we are on the same wavelength when dynoing vehicles, I am more intereted in repatable figures than one offs, we also use our dyno for diagnostics in tracking down lack of power problems, so we have a database of good vehicles, that we can compare to. Owners are amazed when we overlay good graphs over theirs to show the difference.

Here is a link for more info on correction factors. http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=58222
Todd is the main guy up at Mainline, having met him a few times at the autosalon dyno events, he knows his stuff, he wrote the post.

There are at least 7 different correction factors to choose from with our dyno, all have slightly different ways of calculating the power figure, even motec have one.

At the end of the day its all about the customer knowing that he his getting the right result among the operaters that are around.

Do you use a dyno dynamics dyno at your workplace?

Thanks

Andy

I have used the dyno dynamics product, but when I made the move fom G@D Performance to PGS I was lucky enough to have been able to have input into the selection of dyno. We have a Dynamic Test Systems dyno by Alan Murphy who is based in Dandenong, Alan had a lot to do with Motec in the early days.
Its only 2 months old 4wd with 2 650 Kw retarders and he sells them around the world.
It sounds like the Mainline is a good product but more importantly accurate and harder to manipulate the figures which is what I like about the Dynamic Tset System dyno.
You would share my frustration at some of the fanciful dyno figures around, mainly from one type of dyno, although most of it comes down to the operators.
I've people present figures for GT28RS turbos(Garrett rate optimistically at 440hp) with 300 rw kw, which in most cases is approaching 500 engine HP.
It's annoying as a dyno operator that there are people trying to manipulate dyno figures and the general public.

Cheers

Joel