Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Buy a Nissan & your problems are solved!!!

Robbo wrote::finger: Buy a Nissan & your problems are solved!!!

Yea - I know but I need something I can drive off road.

Sam

Moggler has to be my favourite Jeep. Way cool and it looks like it works well

moggler looks too narrow to me.
And the rear end of that thing is bootiefab.

Wooders to get 104" wheelbase or somewhere round there, you would need to cut the frame in the rear in front of the arch near the middle and then extend it there I would think.

Shane has his diff moved back to give him a 101" wheelbase and he is only using 3" springs in the rear as the perch is now located part way down the rear arch section.

A mog axle portal hub is 6-7" high I believe, so you need to keep it in the arch if you can.

Search pirates there is tons of info on portals, then just apply it back to the jeep. You may even be able to get in touch with the owner of the moggler as well.

Or you could find a HPD44 front with CTM's and a shaved corp 14 bolt rear and save some money. Not quite the strength, not quite the clearance, not quite the price, but will still get you over a hell of a lot of sick rocks

so nam ...since your project has gone belly up...|(sorry to hear)
are you interested in parting with your reco's diffs.. ?

secondly...what is the wheel flange to wheel flange distance on the volvo's
how high is the portal lift from wheel center line to housing centerline ....

Strange Rover wrote:

Robbo wrote::finger: Buy a Nissan & your problems are solved!!!

Yea - I know but I need something I can drive off road.

Sam

Damn!

Thats the best one liner i have ever heard from Sam!

punchy, unfortunately for you, the answer is no. but call me on 0409 904 104 during the day and i'll tell you how to track down a set. ruff would have some clues too i'd say.

width is 176cm or 69" between wheel mounting surfaces (wms) with the stock rims, your final overall width would probably be 70" and your trackwidth would be 61". portal lift is approximately 4". the bottom of the pumpkin hangs down below the wheel centre line a little bit.

Oouch

zzzz wrote:Or you could find a HPD44 front with CTM's and a shaved corp 14 bolt rear and save some money.

how could that save money? we live in Australia, the CTM's would cost nearly as much as one mog!

The one liner was a cracker!

Wendle wrote:

zzzz wrote:Or you could find a HPD44 front with CTM's and a shaved corp 14 bolt rear and save some money.

how could that save money? we live in Australia, the CTM's would cost nearly as much as one mog!

The one liner was a cracker!

Compared to say 60's?
Forgot to write what I was thinking...

CTM's are US$360 or so, plus shipping of what US$20 or something. So lets make that US$400 landed, = $626.494 or something , Add some duty and tax if they don't make it through customs. Hardly as expensive as one mog axle. But I get your point.

Not sure what they sell for locally...

Go with MOG`s
I would not go over 35 with Volvo portals !
If someone need`s measurements for the Mog axles look at my webpage www.killeraxles.com


Daniel

KillerA,
good to see some one with first hand info....now whist your website has the dimensions from a vertical plan covered - what about horizontal....Personally I'm keen to see these appilied to a TJ, and as a result the Pinion lengths are one area of concern - which your pics don't answer.....
do you ahve thsis info??

Wooders wrote:do you ahve thsis info??

Long Day?

Killeraxle wrote:Go with MOG`s
I would not go over 35 with Volvo portals !
If someone need`s measurements for the Mog axles look at my webpage www.killeraxles.com


Daniel

quick someone get camo, we got ourselves a spammer



NICK

Robbo wrote::finger: Buy a Nissan & your problems are solved!!!

no, no, no your problems will only just beinging

Another long day!

Wooder`s

From center of the axle housing to the end of the pinion (with pinion conversion) measures 18 1/2 inch. I would say you have to move the rear axle back.


Nick,

I am not here on your board to sell my stuff ! I like to get some facts out, and I was always interested what kind of wheeling you do in Australia !
Why you want to get Camo ? I am not Daniel6x6 ! I do not have a single problem with Lance or Camo, I will meet them at supercrawl.

Killeraxle wrote:Wooder`s

From center of the axle housing to the end of the pinion (with pinion conversion) measures 18 1/2 inch. I would say you have to move the rear axle back.


Nick,

I am not here on your board to sell my stuff ! I like to get some facts out, and I was always interested what kind of wheeling you do in Australia !
Why you want to get Camo ? I am not Daniel6x6 ! I do not have a single problem with Lance or Camo, I will meet them at supercrawl.

Wolfgang, thanks for the good links and info, I think nick has been joking. It is difficult to see on the net. Camo and Lance do not come out here and the owners do not mind vendors posting up thier stuff for sale. So do not worry about it!

Maggot4x4 wrote:

Wooders wrote:do you ahve thsis info??

Long Day?

Nope - 'twas liquid Lunch

if I could throw in my two cents worth to reply to those who question the strength of Volvos. Generally the weakest link on most built 4x4's on conventional axles is the CV joint. The CV's on Toyota 45"s ,Hilux's, GQ Nissans, early Rangeys and 110 Landys are all identical in size.Eg. You can remove the balls and spiders from a range rover cv and fit it into a toyota one. only the heat treatment and the splines vary from one brand of vehicle to another. The volvo front axle has identical size cv's to all these vehicles but because of hub reduction there is only half the stress.
Before I converted my Landrover to portals I used to run Salisbury (read Dana 60 ) axles front and back, but I built the front end to take LandRover swivel housings and Toyota CV joints. After shattering several cv's I concluded that unless I could find and adapt much larger ones the front diff was overkill and only ate up valuable ground clearance. I could not afford Volvo axles at that time ( still can't ) so I built my own portal hubs for Range rover diffs , also fitted with Toyota cv's and I have not had a problem since. So what I am getting at is that it does not matter how big and strong you may think your Nissan or Toyota etc diffs are , You are still limited by the strength of the CV's. Yes i know about Marfields and Long fields, but you can put them on Volvos too and they will still be effectively more than twice as strong as a Toyota or Nissan with similar equipment. Given enough engine, enough tire and too much right foot you can break anything, with the possible exception of Mogs, but I have heard of them blowing the portal boxes because they use helical gears instead of straight cuts. This surprises me a little because a 404 Mog with all the optional crawler gears is reputadely capable of reliably towing something like 900 tons when used as a railway locomotive. Regards Bill

and my 2 cents is....

Volvo portals can run bigger than 35" tires but for hardcore use you will run the risk of breakage. Stock tires on the Volvo's is about 35", FYI. Also the Volvo's will nearly bolt right up under a Rover, leaf sprung that is. The 7.10's come from 6x6's and are not very good for road use. The 4x4 diffs are better for road/off-road. Price on a set in the USA is running in the $4k-$5k range for 4x4 diffs.

Both the Mog and Volvo portals are the top of the food chain for diffs. If you wouldn't be happy with either one than there really isn't to many diffs on the planet you will be happy with. And if that the case you might as well design some axle/diffs yourself and have them fully custom made. In the USA that going to cost huge $$$....that or start shopping for Tatra diffs!

and here goes my 2 cents...

The place I got my volvo axles from, there were 2 guys removing dana 60's from a comp rig (swedish monsterrace, ~150m straight line with jumps &mud holes), and putting volvo axles under it instead. I said "you need more clearance?" but they said "no, we need more strengh!". They had ~400hp chevy 350 and 40*17" gumbo mudders, and the race is run with style "floor the pedal and aim to the middle". Big jumps kill weaker axles I guess?

They told me one of their friend (running in the same competition series) has used volvo portans for 10 years (more power in the engine I think, similar tyres) and had broken the bigger gears in the portal box, and a couple of times the small spider gears in the diff.

I hear the weakest point in volvo portals is the bigger portal gear, to increase strengt that needs to be done of better material.

2-axle (c303) has weaker diffs (2 small spider gears), 3-axle (c306) has stonger diffs (4 small spider gears).

If the above is true, volvo portals are (much?) stonger than dana 60's. My own experience is very limited, old (maybe a bit tired) rangie 3.5l efi and only a couple of events, but there is one guy in sourhern finland who also has ~400hp chevy 350 engine and 39" boggers, he runs GPS competitions and trial type events, and has not broken anything in two years, and I think he has a heavy right foot. I was told some estonian gyu had broken (a couple of) rear diffs in a steep climb or something.

So volvo portals are not bomb proff either, but they should be quite reliable in "no more than 400hp, max. 40" tyres and no more than 2000kg" vehicle.

Here are some pictures and manual pages of volvo portals:
http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/showg ... &ppuser=35
(I am not related to that site).

-Paavo

Volvo also built a 2 ton payload 6x6 with the same diffs and portals, and personal experience with 6x6's reveal that unless you have unlimited rear bogie articulation, sooner or later you are going to lift one of the rear axles off the ground and impose all your vehicles rear weight on only one rear axle. If you are crossing over a hump while climbing a steep hill this will be the time when an undernourished diff/axle assembly will break.
As far as I know 6x6 Volvo's did not gain a reputation for breaking diffs, axles or portal boxes.
PS, it seems to be the rearmost diff that cops the most stress on other 6x6's.
Bill.

Hi,

one more thing I forgot to mention: volvo portals don't get hot on highway, or at least they take hours of 80km/h (55mph) very easy, front portals are very close to ambient temperature, rear ones are slightly warmer, guess maybe 5 to 10 degrees celsius.

But I have overfilled mine, there is a small nut in the volvo portal box above the "real" oil fill hole, and using that I can add another few desiliters, I'm using hypoid oil (the same oil in diffs and LT230).

My rangie max speed is 130-140km/h, the engine does not go higher than that, the total gearing is much shorter than the original, except the axles other parts are standard, zf auto and 1.222 xfer box.

-Paavo

Hi Paavo, If you want 20% more speed or lower engine revs when cruising you could change the transfercase high range to the 1.003 :1 that was available on some Rangeys and discos fitted with auto trans.
Bill.

Hi,

I already bought 1.003 xfer box, but I won't install that, I don't need to drive faster than 80 km/h and then I have 2500 rpm (or actually a bit more, I have non-standard alternator and the wheel in it is slightly bigger, real rpm is anyway below 3k), and that's fine for me, Q78-16 super swampers do not "roll" (is that correct term?) that well, car is high and everything, so I think 1.003 might be too long for my current engine.

For off-road use the gearing now is close to perfect, could be still a bit shorter but maybe not much, right now I don't have enough power to use 3rd or 4th gear in the mud, and for steep sand hills 3rd is too long, too.

For inspection, I have to have 205r16 or 245/75r16, longer gearing *might* be needed then, I only hope the instection engineer does not find out about the speedo, it's mandatory (in finland in the cars of this age) and it is *slightly* off, 3.54 and 5.99 axle gearings are not quite the same... :-)

With Q78's the speedo is easy, just add 50% to the real speed and you get what the speedo shows, i.e. is speedo shows 90 the real speed is 60. And my wife does not drive rangie than much any more (I wonder why? maybe the reason is that it's used my me during the events and between the events I'm fixing and building it so it's not in driveable condition), so the speedo is not a problem unless the inspection finds it.

-Paavo

RUFF wrote:

mud4b wrote:wow,for that sort of moola imagine the mods you could do to a normal diff.although i understand you still couldnt get that much clearance.

What $5,000?

I have $5,500 in my current hilux set up and they are a weak POS. But its what i spent my $$$ on and im stuck with them.

For approx $6,000 you could buy Mogs and set them up ready to go in.

$6000 is pretty steep, for anyone who wants mog axles i can have both front and rears in australia and in your hands for $3550 for the pair. If anyone is interested just give me pm and ill get back to ya.

is that for 404's

Yeah 404 axles. approx 40 days for delivery.

just incase anyone didn't know, NAM's selling his volvo's...

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