Outer Limits 4x4 Board

big bundy wrote:

NZ4x4 wrote:Yes it is possible to run 4 motors if your electrical system could handle it. (well in NZ winch comps anyway, not sure about OZ winch comps)

didn;t one of the comp guys in qld do this? and blew the gears or casing apart the first time it was used?

Not with these adapters it hasn't. I'm sure I'd hear about it.
Comes down to (like with anything) a good electrical setup/connection and using winches correctly.

The_Wazza wrote:

big bundy wrote:

NZ4x4 wrote:Yes it is possible to run 4 motors if your electrical system could handle it. (well in NZ winch comps anyway, not sure about OZ winch comps)

didn;t one of the comp guys in qld do this? and blew the gears or casing apart the first time it was used?

Not with these adapters it hasn't. I'm sure I'd hear about it.
Comes down to (like with anything) a good electrical setup/connection and using winches correctly.

I'm with Wazza on this one, I highly doubt that anyone has used 4 motors and blown their winch up first time. In order to use 4 motors you need a new Gigglepin twin motor top housing (which has stronger gears) and 2 of Wazza's adapters. Might get around to 4 motor ones day to try and compete with the PTO and hydraulic setups here in NZ once i can figure out how to keep the electric side of it going.

Anyway back on topic.... Look forward to hearing more about your 8274 products Wazza. And would love to see one of you adapters in a long muddy winch!


Cheers
Sam

i think it was the warn gearbox that let go not the motors up in qld

Are we talking about the lower housing were the main and intermediate gears are? There isn't much you can do about damage to that part of the winch apart from install an uprated mainshaft.

Would like to hear who it was that did it. Anyone know? (Shhot me a PM if you do so as not to get this thread too off topic)

it was a double gear box high mount with 2 x gigglepin top hats.

Giantracing on this forum used twin highmounts with two gigglepin top hats to run 4 winch motors.

LudaCris

So was that with a casing at each end cris?

yep casing at each end with a huge drum. HUGE drum.

Nice, I like the sound of that! PGS off here runs the same sort of set up, two casings, but only two motors I think?

wazza,

what is the price of the adaptor and the freespool?
does it free spool the drum from the gearbox or just the motor from the gearbox?

Welchy

WelchyGQ wrote:wazza,

what is the price of the adaptor and the freespool?
does it free spool the drum from the gearbox or just the motor from the gearbox?

Welchy

PM sent

NZ4x4 wrote:

The_Wazza wrote:

big bundy wrote:

NZ4x4 wrote:Yes it is possible to run 4 motors if your electrical system could handle it. (well in NZ winch comps anyway, not sure about OZ winch comps)

didn;t one of the comp guys in qld do this? and blew the gears or casing apart the first time it was used?

Not with these adapters it hasn't. I'm sure I'd hear about it.
Comes down to (like with anything) a good electrical setup/connection and using winches correctly.

I'm with Wazza on this one, I highly doubt that anyone has used 4 motors and blown their winch up first time. In order to use 4 motors you need a new Gigglepin twin motor top housing (which has stronger gears) and 2 of Wazza's adapters. Might get around to 4 motor ones day to try and compete with the PTO and hydraulic setups here in NZ once i can figure out how to keep the electric side of it going.

Anyway back on topic.... Look forward to hearing more about your 8274 products Wazza. And would love to see one of you adapters in a long muddy winch!


Cheers
Sam

Hi Sam
I don't know if you looked but I was using one of Wazza's adapters with twin 7.8 24v Superduty motors. It isn't any faster than a single motor without load but it doesn't slow down much when the load comes on. Once I sort out a few other issue ie ball bearing mounted drum and freespool it will be pretty impressive under load. For outright speed you need to go with the 6hp and run 24v through it. But for durability and power I think what I'm running will be a very good compromise.

sorry for the hijack guys but could i ask some of you winch guys a few tech Q's.

what would be an average loaded line pull in a comp situation, basically are they up a hill with part traction and only really requiring 2000-3000lb ??

would being able to spool in/out at 50-60M/min ( and @ upto 500lb load) be alright instead of an easy free spool??

not the best pic....but the only one i could find

http://www.qldwinchchallenge.com/galler ... 2.jpg.html

PAUL

1MadEngineer wrote:sorry for the hijack guys but could i ask some of you winch guys a few tech Q's.

what would be an average loaded line pull in a comp situation, basically are they up a hill with part traction and only really requiring 2000-3000lb ??

would being able to spool in/out at 50-60M/min ( and @ upto 500lb load) be alright instead of an easy free spool??

depends on the comp and which pull it is. tamworth xtreme event had nearly vertical pulls where rocky round only had steep hills with some traction.

then there is the times when you get a flat tyre etc. and you need all the pull the winch has to offer to get up some things.

And if it in NZ you have to expect bonnet deep swamps and long long pulls. Most guys are trying to get 10,000lbs plus pull and more speed. Going for less pull to get speed would be a really bad idea!!!!!

nzdarin wrote:And if it in NZ you have to expect bonnet deep swamps and long long pulls. Most guys are trying to get 10,000lbs plus pull and more speed. Going for less pull to get speed would be a really bad idea!!!!!

fully understand. but how is having 2 motors on a high mount ever going to go faster than the 1motor at a no or low load speed. electrically a motor has a speed effeciency curve and therefore neglecting internal losses you can never get much more than the advertised ~25m/min speed. I keep hearing twice the speed AND twice the power, please explain how you are doing this as you seem to be able to defy physics.
you either get twice the power for a specific load OR you get twice the speed at a set load, not both at the same time. Please correct me if i am wrong. I will definately buy an adapter if you prove that is true. EG a 8724 pulls 6.7m/min @ 2000lb is it going to pull 13m/min @ 4000lb with 2 motors???

no line speed is same as single motor no different, but under load you have both motors running and sucking more juice so you have a shorter winch time befor battaries die and slightly quicker under load only. slightly quicker. done rite, single winch motors will be faster than doubles not done rite, underload.

Much confusion!

The way I see it, the 6hp motors with 12volts will spin at a given speed, but powering them with 24 volts manages to spin them faster and produce more power. ( It's a common thing to do this - 24volts).
A correctly set up electrical system - solenoids, cables, batteries and alternator, makes them reliable at 24 volts.

Here's how I had to explain to my wife how it works!

Picture one horse with a cart and in the next lane you have 2 horses pulling the same weight cart up the same hill. Which one will get to the top less stressed (in better shape) and quicker?
The two horses sharing the load will do it a lot easier and probably quicker.

These systems really shine under serious winching conditions.

The_Wazza wrote:Much confusion!

The way I see it, the 6hp motors with 12volts will spin at a given speed, but powering them with 24 volts manages to spin them faster and produce more power. ( It's a common thing to do this - 24volts).
A correctly set up electrical system - solenoids, cables, batteries and alternator, makes them reliable at 24 volts.

Here's how I had to explain to my wife how it works!

Picture one horse with a cart and in the next lane you have 2 horses pulling the same weight cart up the same hill. Which one will get to the top less stressed (in better shape) and quicker?
The two horses sharing the load will do it a lot easier and probably quicker.

These systems really shine under serious winching conditions.

thats what i thought (simply ohms law) but if you read the giglepin site they claim twice the power AND twice the speed!! FALSE ADVERTISING!! (given the voltage is constant)

1MadEngineer wrote:

The_Wazza wrote:Much confusion!

The way I see it, the 6hp motors with 12volts will spin at a given speed, but powering them with 24 volts manages to spin them faster and produce more power. ( It's a common thing to do this - 24volts).
A correctly set up electrical system - solenoids, cables, batteries and alternator, makes them reliable at 24 volts.

Here's how I had to explain to my wife how it works!

Picture one horse with a cart and in the next lane you have 2 horses pulling the same weight cart up the same hill. Which one will get to the top less stressed (in better shape) and quicker?
The two horses sharing the load will do it a lot easier and probably quicker.

These systems really shine under serious winching conditions.

thats what i thought (simply ohms law) but if you read the giglepin site they claim twice the power AND twice the speed!! FALSE ADVERTISING!! (given the voltage is constant)

maybe that because the giggle pin top hats also have a differnt gear ratio in the top hat ? well maybe thats something to do with it

Twin motors are much quicker under load "maybe twice the speed" as they don't bog down like a single motor would.

LudaCris

The_Wazza wrote:Much confusion!

The way I see it, the 6hp motors with 12volts will spin at a given speed, but powering them with 24 volts manages to spin them faster and produce more power. ( It's a common thing to do this - 24volts).
A correctly set up electrical system - solenoids, cables, batteries and alternator, makes them reliable at 24 volts.

Here's how I had to explain to my wife how it works!

Picture one horse with a cart and in the next lane you have 2 horses pulling the same weight cart up the same hill. Which one will get to the top less stressed (in better shape) and quicker?
The two horses sharing the load will do it a lot easier and probably quicker.

These systems really shine under serious winching conditions.

but you also need to take into account cuurent draw and battery supply I.E. Food for the horses

if youve only got 1Kg of food the 2 horses are going to eat it quicker , to use your example

BASSYK wrote:

The_Wazza wrote: but you also need to take into account cuurent draw and battery supply I.E. Food for the horses

if youve only got 1Kg of food the 2 horses are going to eat it quicker , to use your example

Exactly, I've already mentioned that before, good battery, solenoids and electricals !