Why is it so hard to find good help

[MitchellBros4x4]

Why is it so hard to get good help these days??

We are looking for an apprentice to start with us in Brookvale, have been for 2 years. We went through the MTA first to get someone on short notice, what a drama!!! They sent us a young bloke 22 yo he was a 3rd year apprentice, he started out ok but as the months went by things started to go downhill rapidly. The other thing is that MTA charges, for a 3rd year, as much as qualified mechanic. Obviously, we can't afford to pay an apprentice qualified wages when the performance doesnt cut the mustard.

We also just found a guy who was interested in an apprenticeship but he only lasted 2 days in total. Happy to have found someone keen we signed him up on the first day he worked the second day and we got a polite phone call at 8am this morning from the young bloke saying he wasnt coming back.
We even offered to pay his fuel costs above his wages.

Why is it that people don't want to work??? Or when they do, their perofrmance is up the #@*^ !!!!

Does anyone want a job in the 4wd Industry???

[lay80n]

Why is it so hard to get good help these days??

We are looking for an apprentice to start with us in Brookvale, have been for 2 years. We went through the MTA first to get someone on short notice, what a drama!!! They sent us a young bloke 22 yo he was a 3rd year apprentice, he started out ok but as the months went by things started to go downhill rapidly. The other thing is that MTA charges, for a 3rd year, as much as qualified mechanic. Obviously, we can't afford to pay an apprentice qualified wages when the performance doesnt cut the mustard.

We also just found a guy who was interested in an apprenticeship but he only lasted 2 days in total. Happy to have found someone keen we signed him up on the first day he worked the second day and we got a polite phone call at 8am this morning from the young bloke saying he wasnt coming back.
We even offered to pay his fuel costs above his wages.

Why is it that people don't want to work??? Or when they do, their perofrmance is up the #@*^ !!!!

Does anyone want a job in the 4wd Industry???

I would of killed for a job in the 4wd industry when i did my trade. Maybe try advertising on 4wd orientated sites like this one, get someone into 4wd's, not some retard that just wants a job to buy his next longneck/pot delivery. The best apprentices that i saw were usually yr 12 schooled and keen to be mechanics, not just yr 10 drop outs that were after a job with no interest in what they were doing. There are exception though.

Layto....

[dogbreath_48]

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=104350

Nah just kidding. There's alot of deadbeats around.

[mud4b]

not saying you are ... but are you giving them false ideas on what they are meant to be doing or do they think they will be building tuff trucks strait up and just getting normal jobs or sweeping floors then realising that this is how its going to be most of the time?

As in are you letting them know what is in store for them, then what might come later if they survive and succeed?

or are there just alot of the people mentioned above that just need a job to get the dole off their back for a week..


bud 1 month ago i could have closed the doors of my business and came to work for you...

[MYTTUF]

Her's a post from a fellow member. Check out http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... t=#1025163
Good enthuastic fella too.
Jonesy

[dirtyGQ]

sorry to say many younger guys (sorry to offend hard working youngens) want everything handed to them on a platter,they want to text their mates all day and get all the cream jobs str8 up.
But saying this is unfair as not all are like that just most i have met or offered work,they all want top pay on the first day.

[dumbdunce]

have you tried group trainers like WSROC and HIGTC? if you want top line apprentices you do have to pay top dollar for them, that's the way it works, but the govt also helps out apprentice employers with fairly generous subsidies.

top apprentices expect (and deserve) frills like uniform supplied, tafe paid for, tool allowance and/or tools supplied, and the employers assistance in all areas of professional development including administration, management and ethics. They also need to be exposed to a variety of machines and work environments, and they usually won't get that from just one employer.

Maybe you've just a had a bad run, but it looks like there's reasons why blokes don't want to work for you. when you interview, make your applicants aware that it's a two way street - that you demand loyalty and hard work, and that you are wiling to reward that with pay and/or conditions they are unlikely to get elsewhere. A better apprentice may appear more expensive but if their work is acually making you money instead of costing you to fix their mistakes (which is what you can expect for the average 1st/2nd year at least) then the extra money you put into wages and conditions is more than recouped in income to your business. a good 2nd/3rd year apprentice is almost as quick as a good tradesman if he's enthusxiastic - youth has its advantages of strength and stamina. If you have a bloke on the shop floor that only costs you say $34/hour (including insurance, tax, overheads - say $17/hr to him) and you can charge him out at $70/hour, the difference is yours to keep. The bonus is that even if you have him working aftenoons or weekends he still costs less to pay than you collect, so if he wants the overtime and you have enough work, a good 2/3yr apprentice can make you a lot of money, IF you are prepared to stump up a bit extra for the right person.

that's my take anwyay. I am a 2nd year heavy vehicle MM apprentice.

cheers

DD

[dirtyGQ]

P.S i don't hire apprentices ....maybe one day.

[eliteforce32]

totally agree dumdance..... at work if the apprentices put good work once amonth a bonus is handed out to apprentices

[badger]

i also totally agree with dumbdunce, but can also see what you are saying
i qualify next friday as a sparky and in the time ive been at my work ive seen atleast 20 apprentices get the ass. but the ones that have put in the hard yards get the rewards. like cream jobs work van n phone and pretty good coin.
there is alot of guys out there that wanna work hard but we know what we are worth as there is probably more guys that dont want to do fork all. so if you want the good ones keep hunting and pay what it takes to get them because even if they cost you 10 bucs more an hour you dont have to pay a tradesman 4 hours a day to fix there stuffups and make sure they are doing there work.
as also stated a hard working keen apprentice definatly makes up for lack of experiance with energy and strength.

[zookjedi]

in my experiences our best success rate has been with the mature apprentices that know what they want and why they want to do it . (yes i was one as well )

in saying that we have had some realy keen work experience fellas that are keen even to the point of staying back and doing overtime ( for free) but the way our system works is if they fail the induction tests they miss out just because they mightened know triganometry (which no one uses in our feild anyway) , so instead we get yr 12 grads that are more suited to swinging a pen than they are a spanner , the company than spends a small fortune on the uniforms and tafe and airfares to sydney for in house training and hotels etc to than loose them at the end of there trade so they can go and push a pen like they should've done in the first place .

the right person will be out there just get the word out and get someone keen into 4x4's that way it wont be so much the money if they are learning things that can help mod their own cars properly and cheaply .

i only became a mechanic so i could fix my own motorbikes etc ,the only break i got was with a caterpillar dealer (as they have no dramas with mature apprenti i was 22 when i went for it and 10 yrs on still there , hell we just put on a 37yr old 1st yr who is worth his weight in gold ), mechanical skills are for life not just vehicles , mechanics can fix anything except the misses mood swings

good luck

cheers Jai

[chunderlicious]

im an apprentice. i work my ass off for my 12.97 an hour which my group training places rents me out at over 30. im a third year roofer, i HELP make my boss' "company" over 6G take home a week most weeks. i went away for 2 days of a 5 day week and left him with our new apprentice (3 months into it, yr 12 private education) and they got a 1 day job done in those 2 days.

my point is that if you find the right person who has the work ethic and the drive for the final results youll be set for 4 years atleast. i know ill be earning as much as my boss one day... but i need to show him that i can do it. he rewards me with bonuses and fuel when we have a good week, he just lets me feel bad if i do a shit job etc.

he sends me out to finish jobs myself now, which is no achievment for a 3rd year but the quality of work he expects is prett farkin hard to achieve.

mate youll find a good one one day, just keep trying, like they said the grade 12ers seem to be more into it and have their heads screwed on tighter, interest is another thing and although it might not be your cup of tea, make them feel like they are part of the company, tell them about the goings on of john the dickhead delivery guy etc. its makes me feel better knowing that im in the loop im sure it does for most people

[beretta]

Chunderlicious, you'll be successful because one way or another you've developed a great attitude, that will be the reason you succeed in life.

Don't want to sound like a wanker, just want to give my experience, I manage a business that employs 33 awesome people, they're all family to me, I rarely have to recruit people because our turnover is 6% annually which is incredible for the industry we're in , to be totally honest I recruit people more on their attitude than their technical ability, because they can learn the technical part, but the attitude comes from thier choice and upbringing IMHO.

Point of the story, there is quite possibly a kid out there who is dead keen to work in your busines but may not have all the attributes you're looking for, if their attitude is right, give em a go. Also those group training bodies are a winner for small business, give them a call. Good luck with finding the right person, they're worth holding out for, don't just employ someone to fill a gap, because they'll never fill it if that is the driver for employing someone. Good luck with it.

[hyzook]

Why is it so hard to get good help these days??

We are looking for an apprentice to start with us in Brookvale, have been for 2 years. We went through the MTA first to get someone on short notice, what a drama!!! They sent us a young bloke 22 yo he was a 3rd year apprentice, he started out ok but as the months went by things started to go downhill rapidly. The other thing is that MTA charges, for a 3rd year, as much as qualified mechanic. Obviously, we can't afford to pay an apprentice qualified wages when the performance doesnt cut the mustard.

We also just found a guy who was interested in an apprenticeship but he only lasted 2 days in total. Happy to have found someone keen we signed him up on the first day he worked the second day and we got a polite phone call at 8am this morning from the young bloke saying he wasnt coming back.
We even offered to pay his fuel costs above his wages.

Why is it that people don't want to work??? Or when they do, their perofrmance is up the #@*^ !!!!

Does anyone want a job in the 4wd Industry???

I feel your pain
We have not had a decent one for years
Our latest 2 are deadset smart arses. One of them came in as a second year and has had arguments with neary everyone in the shop including a fight at TAFE, only today a new tradesmen who WAS on his fourth day trial grabbed him by the neck and pinned him to the wall As i said to the the new trady while we all wanted to do this you just cant get away with this anymore, Maybe this is the problem because I would not have dared back chat a tradesmen when I was an apprentice.

Things are different now, in our throw away society most have never helped there old man fix anything and don't even know what 1/2 inch drive rachet is.

We just had our fourth child (finally a boy ) and a customer of ours got him a 1/4" drive socket set which i thought was heaps cooler than all the clothes and other stuff he got, even the older two of the girls at 4 and 6 can fetch me the right size spanner or correct screwdriver when asked.

I have no idea what these new kids are learning at school now but from what I've seen over the past 10 years its not very much.

[plowy]

another problem too these days is that none of them
''want to have a go''
there favourite answers is '' i dont know ''
there is no'' initiative '' no drive no go out of young blokes

out of 8 work experience kids ive had the pleasure of accompaning me with work there was only 1 i would have given ago
he wanted to take the tools out of my hand and have ago he was honest and willing to work hard and did not complain on what we were doing

all the rest had no go and did not want to have ago

everyone wants the money but no one wants to work for it , even at were i work everyone squables about the jobs they are given ,
i feel like screaming at them , thats your job now go and do it or f*@#k off

the less bitchin about the job the quicker you will get it done

yes when i did start from what i had seen i thought you did have yell abuse n carry on even throw tools to get the job done

but i soon quickly learnt that that way took twice as long to do it instead of just get in and get it done

get in and have ago

[juls]

I also get the feeling, nowadays because more people are hanging on to finish year 12, by the time they finish year 12 they can either get a job paying decent money straight off or go on to do uni or tafe etc.

The ones who dont manage to do this end up going on the dole or getting apprentiships because theres nothing else they can do. 10-20 years ago lots of kids were leaving school at year 10-12 because they WANTED to do apprentiships.

Im not saying everyone fits into this case. Of course there are good kids who want to be apprentices who leave school to do this. However this is a much smaller percentage of the kids now and hence harder to find people who WANT to do it and will be enthiastic and hard working.

Most kids dont care than in 5 years you get a good wage. Its all the here and now, maybe they dont realise youre actually getting paid to learn. Rather than clocking up a huge hecs debt and working a shit job to get thru uni only to find mates who did do apprenticeships earning more or owning their own businesses by the time you graduate.

Thats just my opinion...

[MitchellBros4x4]

And you know its not like we are slave drivers, we only expect honesty, good communication, like when they stuff up to tell us straight away. We offer extra perks like cost price goodies for their vehicles, a few beers after work, the occasional smoko and lunch paid for, they can work on their own vehicles after hours (not like some workshops). We just expect the basics, work hard, be honest and respect themselves and their workmates. Is that such an unreasonable ask of them??

[-Scott-]

Somewhere up above, somebody mentioned enthusiasm? I think this is something to consider.

Many years ago, a friend of mine (very smart, could have studied engineering if he'd wanted to) wandered into an engine builder (well known and respected around town - not REPCO, or a dodgy backyard operation) and asked for a job. Knew a little bit about engines, had little experience using tools, but the owner employed him because he was "keen." He was still working there last I heard from him, and the company is still well known and respected.

[CRUSHU]

Enthusiasim and interest are what you are looking for, Keeping the enthused and keen is your job.
We can't find good young people, and when we do, they leave, because we don't have anything interesting enough to keep them.

[shakes]

Enthusiasim and interest are what you are looking for, Keeping the enthused and keen is your job

I got just over 5 months of my time left as a plumber this is part of the reason I'm still going, because I'm still learning and being challenged.

I've also worked for places we're I have been essentially just a labourer and treated like shite... needless to say I had many words with the employers at these company's.

I dont mind doing the harder/brain numbing work in the slightest when I know I'm setting up to do the cream, when there is no end in sight I have to really really push myself to keep motivation up.

I've also been working with a 1st year apprentice who's 3 months into it and hasnt been shown anything from the company he's with... he was the "gopher"
The kid has been with me for just over a week and when the boss dropped into the site he couldnt beleive his eyes that this kid was actually working. All the other blokes didnt take the 15-20mins to set him up and explain to him exactly what we were doing and give him some basic jobs. they just let him stand around and pass them tool's

Simon

[chimpboy]

For all the talk of how slack some young people are, I have to say I have seen some apprentices treated appallingly too. I would guess that for every lousy apprentice there is at least one lousy boss out there.

[mattsluxtruck]

When i was an apprentice electrician at a major manufactoring company in Sydneys West i was all keen and ready to go at the start. My attitude that i will NOT suck up to ANYBODY was my downfall. Because i didnt kiss the arse of the leading hand i was a marked man and was put onto crap jobs and not shown a thing. A tradesman would be showing me something and the leading hand would tell them off for showing me anything cause of his personal issue.
In the end i was on my own but i refused to suck up to him. I slogged away for the 4 years , left on the day I finished my time and went out and basically retaught myself the trade in the first 12 months as a tradie. Now that i plugged on and did what i had to do to make it , i now work for an electricity supplier , with a company vehicle and phone , good coin and lots of perks. I couldnt be happier. I finished my apprenticeship 10 years ago and too this day i do not suck up to anyone , what i have and what i do is on my own merits. I saw the leading hand from my time only a couple of months ago. He had gone no further in work then before. I just laughed and hopped back into my brand new company supplied 4x4 all nice and clean while he was putting towels on the seat of his WB ute so all the crap that was on him didnt get inside his car...........HAHAHA

The motto to that little dribble is when you get a good apprentice do whatever it takes to keep them motivated and keen. There are a lot of losers out there that do not want to work but there are also a lot of people out there who devellop an attitude from being treated like crap in the past.

[jet-6]

Most of the above is all correct, its all in your training and what mindset you have, hell in my 3rd year i was training 1st years(sparky), i had my own car, phone, company credit card when i was second year, it really helps any apprentise to give him incentives and goals to achieve

I trained quite a few great guys, some stayed, some moved on to better places, and lost i sacked, and ill tell you now when your a 3rd and 4th year app and you get the choise to hire/fire you rule the world, you can only go up and up

So you really have to put a degree of trust into your guys from the start, they can only fail or sucssed, so if you do that straight up it wont take long till you pick a winner

[Highway-Star]

They say you shouldn't juadge a book by its cover, but in my opionion you should, becasue right now i'm picturing in m head the sort of people who lack a work ethic and there were alot of them at school.

If i had of chosen not to do uni, I would probably killed for a job in the 4WD industry, and if i got one I would work my arse off to keep it. In my opinion too many people only work for the money, and don't give a rats behind about watever they happen to do on the job (if anything).

Also its probably worth considering that some of these employees may be being railroaded into jobs that don't suit them by frustrated parents; which only aggrevates the situation. Consider people on their interests, as most people have said, enthusiasm counts for allot; if the person likes street cars, then they may have some pathetic issue with 4WDs etc.

Good luck MitchelBros4x4 finding an apprentice, because quality employees are also good for us consumers

[zagan]

We also just found a guy who was interested in an apprenticeship but he only lasted 2 days in total. Happy to have found someone keen we signed him up on the first day he worked the second day and we got a polite phone call at 8am this morning from the young bloke saying he wasnt coming back.
We even offered to pay his fuel costs above his wages.

He's either found a better job paying more... or his friends have been saying your getting screwed big time so he quits your job to hit the dole.

My brother is the same he was 17-18 in Canberra getting $25 an hour doing data cabling, now he's up here in QLD, he hasn't worked because he's expecting $25 an hour or more + full uniforms plus extras for lunch and all the perks as per the awards.

If any place can't do that then it's not worth wasting time looking at.

For me it's different I was trying to make some cash out of making websites for companies but no company in Australia is interested in website's here it's all telephones etc and if they do it's a crap looking site made by the local uni student for free as practise for when they start up their own business trying to make $1,000's in a week.

Anyway, ended up doing a work for the dole learning welding, which got turned into a welder 6 month course did all that walked out of there with a job.

I've only done work for the dole twice but I've walked out with a job both times, not bad I think.

Did 2 years of recruitment work, gone to over 30 different places in that time earning anywhere from $14 an hour at shitty small work places paying as little as they can to their overseas workers, up to $25 an hour on Patrick wharfs.

Then ended up getting a full time welding job after all of that.

I don't get bored with the welding at all, in fact I see it more as a hobby I'm doing on the side even though I'll probably end up doing it for quite a long time.

[matthewK]

im an apprentice boiler maker2nd/3rd yr im 24 and one reason im still in my trade is i want my tickets to be quailfied boilie/welder not only that i do really enjoy what i do 98% of the time

i tell ya i ain there for the money cause it suxs dogs $ 15 an hour just gets me by


but the main reason why most younger people dont stay around is money iv herd any where from 6 bucks to 12 an hour
they expect more in a shorter time frame and it dosent work like that
lost of hard work has to be put in

[Shorti]

People don't stick around because they can't live off 12 bucks an hour. You can't pay rent, buy food, buy clothes, petrol, medical etc.. on 450 a week after tax. 250 a week atleast for rent. food 60 bucks a week if your lucky... 50 bucks a week petrol. God forbid you get sick...

I do agree though it is hard to get good help. Where I work we had two guys not even make it past morning smoko. Alot of eople are scared of an honest days work, and my job isn't what I consider a hard days work.

[Toli]

As said in other post, there is just a lot more choice for young people now. Retail I think is the biggest killer.

A first year apprentice earns what $250 - 300 a week. At 18 you earn more than that a woolies or Macdonalds, throw on top of this management opportunities and the pay goes up as well.

My brother is 20 and a manager at Macdonalds, tried a trade for 6 months did not like so went back to Macdonalds. Pay is better about 40 or a bit under.

I was in the same boat, left school after year 12 and within 4months I was on 40k a year. But in the end Retail sucks and now I have moved in to IT which pays more and have better hours. But try telling that to a young person.

[Bingham]

skills shortage....... and pay people what they are worth! not what award rates are

then bogans can earn 70-100k sitting in a loader at mines so sweeping floors for 300wk is obviously not attractive........

and yes common sense is lacking these days......

[Patroler]

Also there was another thread somewhere on schooling which could be relevant... seems that schools these days don't like to encourage competitiveness, (don't worry little johnny you came sixth in the race but thats ok everybody gets a ribbon - otherwise your parents will get the shits)
Kinda teaches kids that they don't have to try so hard, why would they when they get rewarded anyway, leave school - why should i work, it's too hard, society owes me!

fwiw i left school after yr 12, got accepted into engineering, was too bumbed out for more study at 17, took a full time job(projectionist) at the place where i was casual, stayed for a further 4 years until ordinary hours and work conditions motivated me to look for somewhere else, got a job in a local large factory (chocolate) started the day after leaving job 1, still there now. Make around 80k now fairly low responsibility easy job, 2 days 2 nights 4 off.
Although i'd really like a trade, it just isn't feasible at this point in time - 2 kids! to drop that much cash (adult apprenticeships come up now and then) and there really isnt much mechanical stuff that i haven't learn't already or am getting the hang of - fitter and turner style stuff.

I guess there are people out there, you just gotta catch them before they get a taste of money, and then make them realise that it will really help them later in life to see it through.

Good luck and sorry for the long post