Am I better off with a pair of lockrights or am I better to weld the rear and spend the cash on an ARB front airlocker ?
NO Power Steering. No plans to fit it either.
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Twin Lockrights or weld rear and ARB front
Twin Lockrights or weld rear and ARB front
I have gears now I want traction.
Am I better off with a pair of lockrights or am I better to weld the rear and spend the cash on an ARB front airlocker ?
NO Power Steering. No plans to fit it either.
Am I better off with a pair of lockrights or am I better to weld the rear and spend the cash on an ARB front airlocker ?
NO Power Steering. No plans to fit it either.
Last edited by want33s on Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
weld the rear and do a auto locker in the front if money is tight.
if not then arb front.
do you have power steer?
if not then arb front.
do you have power steer?
my GUBanzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
Do you have PAS?
If not I'd only consider a manual locker (air locker, or mechanical activated if you can get one) in the front. Also any type of upgraded front diff, you may want to consider strenghtening the tie rod, as the front will not want to steer, guess the weekest link...
Why instantly go from two open diffs to two locking types? Why not do one at a time, maybe you can then afford to eventually go with twin air lockers or something. I personally hate anything that works without human interaction (auto diffs, auto transmissions, auto doors
), I like things to work when I need them to, and how I need them to. Just my opinion, you know this question has oppened an evil can of worms (opinions)?
If not I'd only consider a manual locker (air locker, or mechanical activated if you can get one) in the front. Also any type of upgraded front diff, you may want to consider strenghtening the tie rod, as the front will not want to steer, guess the weekest link...
Why instantly go from two open diffs to two locking types? Why not do one at a time, maybe you can then afford to eventually go with twin air lockers or something. I personally hate anything that works without human interaction (auto diffs, auto transmissions, auto doors
), I like things to work when I need them to, and how I need them to. Just my opinion, you know this question has oppened an evil can of worms (opinions)?Wheeling on completely wicked angles, without even looking stable.
Highway-Star,
I understand you are keen to offer advice but how much experience do you have with these type of modifications? I think you might be confusing the issue with concerns that don't really exist.
The increased force on the tie rod is in tension only so increasing the tube size will do very little to add strength. Ever seen a tie rod shear? (not bend and then break?)
The tie rod and drag link are unfortunately difficult to manufacture as they both contain ball joints or unusual tapers. You will notice that all heavy duty upgrades also involve steering arms to separate the the tie rod and drag link, what can;t really be applied in a SPUA configuration as they place the drag link too high.
If the car has manual steering and the drag link does not hve any impact related bend in it, it is almost impossible to bend a drag link with steering force.
Please name a manual locker other than an ARB airlocker for the front of a sierra.
I think your opinions about "automatic" devices being inferior are amusing.
I agree that ARB airlockers are the best solution for a sierra, but not because I think I can always know when to use them better than an auto locker. An auto locker is no such thing. It doesn't automatically do anything, it just responds to the wheels and the engine. I don't think "auto lockers" are suitable for a sierra perhaps more than any other car. I think if I had a heavy car I wouldn't have a problem with auto lockers. It's horses for courses.
Auto lockers upset the handling in the front of a sierra, and the in the rear when on road. So does my welded rear, and so will my spool when that's in. Thing is, I am not confident that I can deploy an airlocker as well as a spool off road.
I like auto gearboxes too and anything else that makes me achieve more in my car.
Auto lockers don't really do this as they trade off more than they gain IMHO.
Steve.
I understand you are keen to offer advice but how much experience do you have with these type of modifications? I think you might be confusing the issue with concerns that don't really exist.
The increased force on the tie rod is in tension only so increasing the tube size will do very little to add strength. Ever seen a tie rod shear? (not bend and then break?)
The tie rod and drag link are unfortunately difficult to manufacture as they both contain ball joints or unusual tapers. You will notice that all heavy duty upgrades also involve steering arms to separate the the tie rod and drag link, what can;t really be applied in a SPUA configuration as they place the drag link too high.
If the car has manual steering and the drag link does not hve any impact related bend in it, it is almost impossible to bend a drag link with steering force.
Please name a manual locker other than an ARB airlocker for the front of a sierra.
I think your opinions about "automatic" devices being inferior are amusing.
I agree that ARB airlockers are the best solution for a sierra, but not because I think I can always know when to use them better than an auto locker. An auto locker is no such thing. It doesn't automatically do anything, it just responds to the wheels and the engine. I don't think "auto lockers" are suitable for a sierra perhaps more than any other car. I think if I had a heavy car I wouldn't have a problem with auto lockers. It's horses for courses.
Auto lockers upset the handling in the front of a sierra, and the in the rear when on road. So does my welded rear, and so will my spool when that's in. Thing is, I am not confident that I can deploy an airlocker as well as a spool off road.
I like auto gearboxes too and anything else that makes me achieve more in my car.
Auto lockers don't really do this as they trade off more than they gain IMHO.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
I could be mixing a few things up:
AGreed the tie rod is fine without PAS. Not aware of one shearing, just bending, which still creates problems (existing bend exagerated possibly?).
Not aware of manual locker for front of Sierra other than ARB, only rear; thats why I said 'If you can get one'. Fair call I stufffed up here
.
I didn't say automatic devices are 'inferior', just said I don't like them. As I said its an opinion, not a law of physics. I'm sure everyone has there own opinion on this, and I dare say the majority probably wont agree with me; but its a discussion thread and they are entitled to shoot me down in flames if they feel I should be.
Its good for people to comment on my comments anyway, makes me think more about what I said. Might even encourage me to go away and learn more about a particular subject.
AGreed the tie rod is fine without PAS. Not aware of one shearing, just bending, which still creates problems (existing bend exagerated possibly?).
Not aware of manual locker for front of Sierra other than ARB, only rear; thats why I said 'If you can get one'. Fair call I stufffed up here
.I didn't say automatic devices are 'inferior', just said I don't like them. As I said its an opinion, not a law of physics. I'm sure everyone has there own opinion on this, and I dare say the majority probably wont agree with me; but its a discussion thread and they are entitled to shoot me down in flames if they feel I should be.
Its good for people to comment on my comments anyway, makes me think more about what I said. Might even encourage me to go away and learn more about a particular subject.
Wheeling on completely wicked angles, without even looking stable.
Happy to admit I was playing with words a bit, but by my interperetation, If you are not sure an automatic part will work "when you want it to, how you want it to" I interperet that as a negative comment, indicating they might not work when or how you want them to.... and therefore be inferior to a device you had total choice over, in your opinion.
The catch is that airlockers do not immediately engage and disengage either, and drivers, in error, often attempt to engage them whilst a wheel is spinning, resulting in far more load on the driveline than an autolocker could produce.
Basically, none of the solutions are perfect. I am going with airlocker front and spooled rear, in my car which is not daily driven. As I am changing my axles at the same time, I just welded the rear for now to get me on trips.
If my car was a daily driver, it would have to be airlocker rear/front open until I coudl afford a front airlocker.
However, if you lived somewhere predominantly dry and had a weekend car, a full case "autolocker" like a detroit might be useful, but I certainly not for victoria or anywhere muddy IMHO - they just don't like to unlock from what I have seen.
The force bending things thing - if anything it will be the drag link, but you are right in a sense that the extra force of a locker will probably quickly increase the bend on an already bent item. you can't really blame the locker or the part for this, because they don't bend unless you hit them on something.
Steve.
The catch is that airlockers do not immediately engage and disengage either, and drivers, in error, often attempt to engage them whilst a wheel is spinning, resulting in far more load on the driveline than an autolocker could produce.
Basically, none of the solutions are perfect. I am going with airlocker front and spooled rear, in my car which is not daily driven. As I am changing my axles at the same time, I just welded the rear for now to get me on trips.
If my car was a daily driver, it would have to be airlocker rear/front open until I coudl afford a front airlocker.
However, if you lived somewhere predominantly dry and had a weekend car, a full case "autolocker" like a detroit might be useful, but I certainly not for victoria or anywhere muddy IMHO - they just don't like to unlock from what I have seen.
The force bending things thing - if anything it will be the drag link, but you are right in a sense that the extra force of a locker will probably quickly increase the bend on an already bent item. you can't really blame the locker or the part for this, because they don't bend unless you hit them on something.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
is there a difference to drive with a spool or a welded?
btw i am running a welded rear and locker front (richmond) and use is in either wet mud/clay and dry sand etc. works good in both but not sure on the unlocking thing. mines only a weekender to not too concerned with driving it.
btw i am running a welded rear and locker front (richmond) and use is in either wet mud/clay and dry sand etc. works good in both but not sure on the unlocking thing. mines only a weekender to not too concerned with driving it.
[url=http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?p=930942#930942&highlight=]Zook[/url]
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
God Of Emo
Posts: 7350
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:04 pm
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No difference to drive between a mini-spool or a welded centre. Both achive the same outcomenicbeer wrote:is there a difference to drive with a spool or a welded?
btw i am running a welded rear and locker front (richmond) and use is in either wet mud/clay and dry sand etc. works good in both but not sure on the unlocking thing. mines only a weekender to not too concerned with driving it.
Layto....
[quote="v840"]Just between me and you, I actually really dig the Megatwon, but if anyone asks, I'm going to shitcan it as much as possible! :D[/quote]
I have lockrite front and rear and there awsome!
BUT i have said it before and i'll say it again at low speeds (expecially now with the gears and 31's) its hard to turn when in 4wd! You DO get used to it and i wouldn't go back to open centers again!
BUT on the flip side the last 2 times i have been out with people 3 cars have been left useless as air lockers have had leaks and air compressor blocked up one snagged his air line on stick!
Don't know what there like in zooks but i would think the same!
With a lockrite it's there all the time and will not break unless the pin snaps! It's a cheap part to replace!
I would weld back and lockrite front!
My 2c worth!
BUT i have said it before and i'll say it again at low speeds (expecially now with the gears and 31's) its hard to turn when in 4wd! You DO get used to it and i wouldn't go back to open centers again!
BUT on the flip side the last 2 times i have been out with people 3 cars have been left useless as air lockers have had leaks and air compressor blocked up one snagged his air line on stick!
Don't know what there like in zooks but i would think the same!
With a lockrite it's there all the time and will not break unless the pin snaps! It's a cheap part to replace!
I would weld back and lockrite front!
My 2c worth!
Built swb sierra, building a lwb sierra ute and have a dmax for family camping
Mate , I would go the second option , welded rear and air locker in the front. To remove the front diff centre is a major job and if you are going to do it you might as well do it once. A front air locker will allow you to steer the vehicle when unlocked. It will also help protect your front cv's as it will when unlocked allow the diff to transfer the load betwwen the wheels , lessening the shock load on the cv's. If you drive sensibly and only use the air locker with minimal steering you should be allright. I have driven a double air locked zuk and we did most of the sydney tracks and never broke a cv. It had 33's , wide track diffs and stage 1 gears. Also your font diff only provides about 25% of your drive so when climbing up terrain the front usually unloads and most of the drive comes from the rear. I also had a zuk with a lockright in the front while I waited for the rear to come , out at menai the performance with only a front locker was not that much better. Weld the rear up for now and when you can afford a rear air locker throw it in. When you do get a airlocker for the rear , just chuck away your hemisphere and use your gears on the new locker. I don't know what steve was saying about detroits unlocking because I've had a few and none of them have ever let me down offroad. Also the case of the airlockers failing comes down to poor install of the tubing and compressor position , people think they can drive through 6 foot deep mud holes and expect a compressor not to suck in crap and as for airline installation , people seem to think it is only a hose and don't protect it from damage , some protection is critical where their is a chance of it being hit by objects under the car , just my 2c , Cheers Paul.
BLOWNZUK 1.3 efi,sc14 supercharger,hilux diffs,detroit lockers,stage 4 rockhopper,6 point cage,35 muddies.
Use the heavy duty air line kit. It's a winner and will be going into mine for sure. They are very nice.
Anyone that goes out with an airlocker and no means of repairing a hose is asking for trouble. (Or the HD air kit)
Steve.
Anyone that goes out with an airlocker and no means of repairing a hose is asking for trouble. (Or the HD air kit)
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
I am not aware of an E locker for a sierra.saffrett wrote:does any one know if they make a e locker for sierra and wat is a coilly rear the same as wt or jimny and is there any type of locker for the front of a coily
Coil rear is the same as any other 1.3 sierra/jimny
Coil front is unique. Jimny lockers can be made to fit but machining is involved. There are no off the shelf lockers for the front of a coiler AFAIK, although I would have thought a lunchbox locker (an auto locker that uses the orginal side gears) might be able to work in the front of a coiler.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
arb or weld
So far its 85% in favour of weld rear and ARB lock front. Thanks guys. 
Just my 2c - I think i'd go with a trail tough mini spool. In the event you wanted to take it out A) you don't have to find another centre B) there is less chance of the centre breaking due to embrittlement, and C) if you go to an airlocker in the rear you can sell it.
Also, if the centre does break you can just swap the spool into a new one.
USD$109 from Trail tough.
Steve.
Also, if the centre does break you can just swap the spool into a new one.
USD$109 from Trail tough.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
weld or detroit.
Gwagensteve wrote:Just my 2c - I think i'd go with a trail tough mini spool. In the event you wanted to take it out A) you don't have to find another centre B) there is less chance of the centre breaking due to embrittlement, and C) if you go to an airlocker in the rear you can sell it.
Also, if the centre does break you can just swap the spool into a new one.
USD$109 from Trail tough.
Steve.
I think my mind is made up ?? Spool the rear and save for an air locker. That will take a while but the spool should keep me happy in the meantime. 
Re: weld or ?
which way did u do this? cut two sticks down?want33s wrote:I twin sticked the case when I put the new gearset in.
[url=http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?p=930942#930942&highlight=]Zook[/url]
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
U SUK Zook Built and Sold.
New rig is 97 80 DX. 2" list 33s
Re: weld or ?
Yep. One was a one litre stick so it needed building up a bit. I cut each of them in half and then cut the sticks off and made new ones. Was easier than rebending the old ones.nicbeer wrote:which way did u do this? cut two sticks down?want33s wrote:I twin sticked the case when I put the new gearset in.
id go twin lockrites i have them and twin arbs,the biggest thing with arb lockers is that they cost way to much and once u drive with a snaped axle u can nearly gurantey that the arb locker will be fuked or half of it will be i was for ever fixin the shit arb lockers got the shits and tryed the lockrites snap a axle it dosent fuk all the seals of any other internals cos its so simple it dosent have hardly any,so u just have to repalce axle and job done,no stuffin around and wasting more money on the arb
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