fuel

[St Jimmy]

i got a tank of unleaded with 10%ethnol in it to beast ran like a one leged dog went to my mats and took the top off my carb and it looked like was full of green jelly has anyone hade this problem before any ideas

[want33s]

Ethanol is chemically almost metho. Metho is commonly put in fuel tanks to absorb water.
In your case while you only had normal petrol in the tank there was no mixing of fuel and water so the water stayed put in the bottom of the tank. The Ethanol has mixed with the water in your system and what hasn't already gone through your engine has been deposited in your carby float chamber.
Stay away from ethanol I reckon and put a half litre of metho in a full tank of fuel every 6 months.
My theory anyway.

[Gwagensteve]

I was going to suggest something similar.

I ran the cooper S on a tank of Shell Vpower racing - 100 octane - 5% ethanol, and lost economy over 98 octane. Didn't notice any power gain.

I would not recommend ethanol - most cars don't seem to get on with it very well.

Apparently STi WRX's are not supposed to be run on even 5% ethanol.

Steve.

[gman79au]

I guess using that theory, If you use an ethenol based fuel regularly than you won't have a problem??? so what does the new holden astra in my driveway have which prevents this occuring as on the inside of the fuel cap door is a little sticker saying its ok to use ethenol fuel.

[want33s]

I guess using that theory, If you use an ethenol based fuel regularly than you won't have a problem??? so what does the new holden astra in my driveway have which prevents this occuring as on the inside of the fuel cap door is a little sticker saying its ok to use ethenol fuel.

Regular use would stop the water problem but it's still ethanol, not petrol.
Your new Holden Astra is fuel injected and has several large filters to trap any fuel contaminants. Serviced regularly you will get away with using E10 or similar.
Anyone old enough to remember the difference between regular and super petrol? Well I equate Ethanol blend to regular.... Good for 'low compression', no performance motors.(IE Holden 161-LC)
No new car has a 'low compression' motor so why use a low performance fuel?

[Moph]

The ethanol in the mix seems to scour the fuel lines and deposit the junk in the fuel filters or, in the case of my Zook, in the carby.

I ran 10% ethanol blend one run in the country when it was about 10c/L cheaper than regular unleaded. By the end of that trip the Zook started dying at idle ... it kept getting worse to the point that a couple of days after using the ethanol blend, I had to keep the throttle cracked open even during a slow gear shift to stop it dying!!

I replaced the fuel filter and took the top off the carby. Gave it a real good clean with carby cleaner including angling the spray tube into the jets. Fixed the problem for a hundred or so kays, but then came back as more loose crap in the fuel lines made its way into the jets.

Eventually I bit the bullet and figured a hair of the dog might fix it. Ran premium ethanol blend for 3 tanks ... first one was shocking, engine dying at low revs all the time, but by the third tank it seemed to have broken up all the deposits small enough to fit through the carby jets and was running smooth again. Haven't had an issue with it since, but I'm not chancing ethanol blend again!

Might work for you, then again might not. The idling problem was noticeably linked to the use of ethanol fuel both times, so no question in my mind that this was what caused it.

Just my 2c

[alien]

when the zuk manual says "unleaded only" thats all that goes in there - unless its a cleanser or octane booster.... other than that, i'd stay away from something thats been put in place by the fuel companies to save money... if people dont buy it theyll stop making it!

[Highway-Star]

I was under the impression that cars that are 'designed' to run on ethanol have engine seals/gaskets and hoses that wont be effected, however older cars that were built before ethanol was a 'serious consideration' lack these so called ethanol resistant rubbers etc.

My parents Jeep says expliciltly in the handbook up to 10% ethonal is OK, however I've never seen a Sierra handbook etc saying its an acceptable fuel. I know a bloke who got a letter from Mazda saying explicitly, do not use ethanol fuel in your car, however the next model after his was OK for 10%. It seems car manufacturers slowly introduced ethanol compatible cars, being particularly slow in australian models.

If you really want to run ethanol (due to some crazy environmental concious or something), consider doing an engine transplant to an engine designed to take ethanol. Just remember that you will have to change all your fuel lines and filters etc...

[gman79au]

I think whats being forgotten here is when ethenol was first introduced in Australia (8 years or so ago) there was no regulation on the amount of additive which could be mixed with petrol and at the time as there was less tax on the ethenol product so some manufactures would try and gain a benifit by adding way more than 10% (which is now regulation) hence all the problems and bad publicity it recieved. ethenol blended fuels have been used overseas for years and has proven it self as been a cheaper and enviromentlly friendly alternative, yeah sure its not suitable for high performance engines and even than a 5% mix is available offering an even higher octane rating for those demanding engines.
all in all if you do some real research you will discover this and more.
yeah I had problems too but that was years ago, I use it in the jimny, astra, 2.7 hilux regularly with not a miss.

and about the filters, the astra doesn't even have a replacable fuel filter its designed to last the life of the car with no note for it to be replaced in its service manual . Jimny's fuel filter replace every 230000kms! Late model Jeep wrangler's also have a similar setup to jimny and I bet there are a lot of other modern day machines out there with the same.

just my bit.

[St Jimmy]

the only reason i put e10 in was it a long walk home and thats all the servo had it was not on perpoise [wish i could type and spell at the same time]

[want33s]

and about the filters, the astra doesn't even have a replacable fuel filter its designed to last the life of the car with no note for it to be replaced in its service manual .....

Yeah right. NO fuel filter replacement ever.

[MightyMouse]

On cars that arn't designed for ethanol in the fuel then there can be issues
with hoses, gaskets etc. Its not particularly good for the commutator
segments on the high pressure pumps either but what can you do ?

Lots of political pressure to make cars ethanol compatible - even if that
just involves putting a sticker on thats says so.

There are deeper issues however, if you search the web you will find
several really interesting SAE reports investigating the effect of ethanol on the mechanical components of current engines - none of which are
good.

Lots of pics of valve deposits, piston and ring issues etc. etc.

IMO ethanol blends are here to stay - but motorists will pay a hidden
cost in reduced engine life etc.

And on the matter of octane... If your car doesn't ping then using higher
octane fuel will produce no difference. If your engine management system
learns, and has knock sensing then the system will advance by some
degree and you will get a benifit. However there are limits to this and
at some point no further gain will be experienced.

So for modern engine management systems - give it a go, for old EFI
and carbs - if its not pinging now then probably a waste of money.

[smileysmoke]

my mates son decided to put ethanol in his last month and now he carries round about 20L of water as every time he stops the radiator is empty.. it seems to have chewed through the headgasket.. :|
he is 18 and thought it would make it go harder.. he reckons it did but i dont think thats worth pulling the donk out again.

[j-top paj]

i tried some E10 in the GU while on christmas hollidays and noticed it gave slightly better economy. but like has been said before, it might have been due to the EFI and filters etc...

[Gwagensteve]

i tried some E10 in the GU while on christmas hollidays and noticed it gave slightly better economy. but like has been said before, it might have been due to the EFI and filters etc...

Chemically it should provide worse fuel economy if I recall correctly. It can be tuned to provide more power, as Koenigsegg have proved with the CCX. (produces maximum power on E85)

Steve.

[gman79au]

this thread has made the worms go all crazy and i don't think the can's even open yet!

want33's- you will be suprised how many cars out there have filters which are designed for the life of the car! its not that there isn't a filter you'll find to change the filter you need to buy a new fuel tank or fuel pump, just like wheel hubs on falcons and commodores, you don't repack em with grease you throw them away buy a new hub! isn't the wrangler like this too?

[St Jimmy]

just going to replace filters 3rd set in three days bugger no more e10 for me

[MightyMouse]

Sorry to go back to octane again - but it was raised...

The volatile components of the high octane mixes do not have
a long shelf life. A fuel industry rep agreed that Hi octane fuel
degrades in as little as two weeks if stored unfavorably, and
that it would be wise to "buy from a high turnover supplier"


Makes you wonder if we are getting what we pay for......

This was kicked off by a racing bike that wouldn't start or
run properly - eventually it was realised that the fuel had been
alowed to stand in the tank since its last outing some weeks
before. New fuel - no problem,,

[cj]

Sorry to go back to octane again - but it was raised...

The volatile components of the high octane mixes do not have
a long shelf life. A fuel industry rep agreed that Hi octane fuel
degrades in as little as two weeks if stored unfavorably, and
that it would be wise to "buy from a high turnover supplier"


Makes you wonder if we are getting what we pay for......

This was kicked off by a racing bike that wouldn't start or
run properly - eventually it was realised that the fuel had been
alowed to stand in the tank since its last outing some weeks
before. New fuel - no problem,,

We had the same problem with race fuel for the jet skiis. We used to dump it and buy fresh fuel direct from the Distributer as they turned it over at a high volume. Old fuel, and we are only talking two to four weeks old just didn't deliver the goods. It also cost us a few rebuilds before we learnt this but you just got to love high compression

[j-top paj]

i tried some E10 in the GU while on christmas hollidays and noticed it gave slightly better economy. but like has been said before, it might have been due to the EFI and filters etc...

Chemically it should provide worse fuel economy if I recall correctly. It can be tuned to provide more power, as Koenigsegg have proved with the CCX. (produces maximum power on E85)

Steve.

thats what i thought before i put it in, but it was all highway driving so it could have been other things that changed it

[Jock]

if any of you actually read the OWNERS manual for a sierra it says "E5 is acceptable to run in the engine"

Do I have to scan the page for you?

So there goes the theory that you have to use special hoses and all the other bits and peices.

[Santos]

i run e10 95-98 octane regular, no problems for my three years ownership. A friend of mine told me ethanol reduced octane this 'logical' assumption came by the fact that shell now sell e10 92 octane cheaper. Ethonol increases octane which allows petrol supplies to mix it with below standard fuel to bump it up to 92.
I think ethanols biggest killer is that people blame it and not the fuel it is mixed with or other flawed logic like 'it only happened after a tank or two of ethanol' when in reality for rubbers in 15 yr old cars may already be on the way out.

I'm not saying my car has not required trouble shooting and maintanace over 3 yrs.
In that timing i've had other things like needing new leads and plugs, new vacumm hoses, clean crud accumilated over the pcv valve or changed my fuel filter but all in all i get 9.5-11km per litre depending on conditions and most of this is due to warm up losses (i worked this out when i did 300km round trip across sydney over 4 hrs in heavy traffic all day, stop/start i actually got 11.5km per litre fuel economy)

Lastly newer fuel injected cars squirt a pressurised charge so it's unsuprising they achieve better feedback from users of e10. Any moisture that may have worked it's way into the fuel is spread thinly across the 'squirt' . Carbs can accumulate mosture at the bottom of the bowl.

(my car did die at idle last year, i though it was the fuel, then did spark plugs and timing, helped then stated dieing ,it turned out my ignition leads where leaking)