Notice: We request that you don't just set up a new account at this time if you are a previous user.
If you used to be one of our moderators, please feel free to reach out to Chris via the facebook Outerlimits4x4 group and he will get you set back up with access should he need you.
Recovery:If you cannot access your old email address and don't remember your password, please click here to log a change of email address so you can do a password reset.

R12

General Tech Talk

Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators

Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Coogee

R12

Post by Coogee60 »

Anyone know if any R12 gas is still available in Sydney? Sorry to all the do gooders who may take offence.
FJZ80, 3 inch long travel, 35's, rear locker.
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Gold coast QLD

Re: R12

Post by Madmac »

Coogee60 wrote:Anyone know if any R12 gas is still available in Sydney? Sorry to all the do gooders who may take offence.
R12 hasnt been available for a few years now, it is now illegal to use it. there are replacement refrigerants you can now use instead of r12, ie r409a opr R134a. your only chance of getting R12 would be if someone has an old cylinder lying around in there shed
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Coogee

Post by Coogee60 »

Ok thanks, knew it wasn't used but didn't know it was actually illegal to use it. Is there a legal and widely available gas that can be used in its place that will not require a retrofit? The vehicle is an 84 FJ60 and i'm in Sydney. Cheers, Simon.
FJZ80, 3 inch long travel, 35's, rear locker.
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: Canberra

Post by foster_the_fat »

There are replacement gases available, LPG and similar. Can't recall the name of the mob that produce gas replacement, but someone will. Seen it on a thread here recently. Doesn't require retrofit.
Posts: 3098
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by PJ.zook »

If you go down on a saturday and get talkin with one of the aircon blokes, most of em have a canister of R12 lying around that they will gas up for you for a slab.
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:23 pm
Location: Darwin

Post by Tojo »

If you go down on a saturday and get talkin with one of the aircon blokes, most of em have a canister of R12 lying around that they will gas up for you for a slab.
are you for real? do you actually know what R12 is worth? Even if an aircon guy had some, i seriously doubt he would gas up an a/c with it for a slab!
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: campbelltown

Post by Mousie »

i am a refrigeration guy..

i got a a bit but its werth $$$ few hunge a kilo...
R.A.G, Ruff As Gutts 4x4 club :P
http://www.rag4x4.com/
Posts: 6021
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:01 pm
Location: Shed.

Post by dumbdunce »

134a conversion, new reciever drier and gas is about $230 - $250 at most places. R12 gas alone, assuming you could find it, and find someone who would sell it to you, would probably cost twice that. There is so much competition in the car air con service market that prices are a lot more competivite than say 10 years ago, ring a few places and see what sort of price you can get, you might be surprised. the gas alone is $70ish, so the rest of the conversion is cheap.
Free air locker to the first 20 callers!
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Coogee

Post by Coogee60 »

Righto thanks. Sounds like the replacement gas is the go, anyone know what its called (er12???) and where to get it? Anyone used it? That failing, the rerofit sounds cheap, was under the impression that it would be closer to a grand. Cheers.
FJZ80, 3 inch long travel, 35's, rear locker.
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Location: Acting the goat.

Post by BowTieGQ »

When ever you open a system you should replace the reciever/drier anyway. Not always but recommended. Just replace yours, they are about the cheapest part of an ac system, and use R134a. It's actualy a better gas for ac than R12 anyway. Can't go wrong
[quote="bazooked"]can i use a mate to position while i screw? :twisted:[/quote]
Posts: 1949
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:44 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by MKPatrolGuy »

A bit of a hijack, but is there anyone here who is around the Bayswater Vic area who could service the A/C in my Mav? I'd prefer to give my business to someone on the board. Failing that, anyone reccomend a place around Bayswater?

Dave
[size=100][url=http://www.vickrawlers.com/]VicKrawlers.com[/url]
[url=http://www.drfwdc.org.au/]Dandenong Ranges 4wd Club[/url][/size]
Posts: 1397
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 6:58 pm
Location: West Australia Posts: Less than DeWsE

Post by jeep97tj »

Were starting to convert all our gear to "minis 30" runs at half pressure than r134 (so sucks less hp from your engine) and is colder aswell. R134a is on the way out now as well because they have found out it is bad for the enviro.
Shane
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Location: Acting the goat.

Post by BowTieGQ »

Yeah 134a isn't that great either. The reason it's "greener" is it doesn't deplete the ozone. But it still lingers in the atmosphere which isn't all that beneficial either really. Beats eating the ozone though I guess.
[quote="bazooked"]can i use a mate to position while i screw? :twisted:[/quote]
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:56 pm
Location: perth wa

Post by pantheas18_hj47 »

what is minis 30?
Drive it as far as you can then sleep in it and get up and do it all again!
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:28 pm
Location: Kyrgyzstan

Post by me3@neuralfibre.com »

BowTieGQ wrote:When ever you open a system you should replace the reciever/drier anyway. Not always but recommended. Just replace yours, they are about the cheapest part of an ac system, and use R134a. It's actualy a better gas for ac than R12 anyway. Can't go wrong
R134a is less efficient. Your aircon will perform worse than before.

www.hychill.com.au

It's LPG with a few more $

Paul
Lexus LX470 - hrrm Winter Tyres
Gone - Cruiser HZJ105 Turbo'd Locked & Lifted
Gone - 3L Surf
Posts: 613
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:33 pm
Location: virginia, brisbane

Post by ausoops »

any fridgies on here (northside brisbane) that can pump down and regass two r22 splitties for me?
swb safari
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: rockhampton

Post by rot8s »

There is a vast difference between LPG and 134A, the first and most important is the big bang factor, namly a leak in the system with LPG (and alot of replacment blends as they are know ) will go bang with any sort of ignition sorce broken lead, cig light in cabin if the evap cracks. Alot of replacement gases are also very very hard to smell if they leak. You have to ask yourself if in the case of an accident if you life is worth the $250 to get the system done in 134a or not. It may seem a bit dramatic but would you like LPG in the cab with you?
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Coogee

Post by Coogee60 »

For me it's not the $250 holding me back from doing the retrofit it is more the fact that (from what I have been told) 134a is not as efficient as r12 and I will not get as good results from my AC. I wouldn't use LPG but a replacement gas (if safe) seems the better option. It's just a case of finding somewhere that sells it!!
FJZ80, 3 inch long travel, 35's, rear locker.
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:28 pm
Location: Kyrgyzstan

Post by me3@neuralfibre.com »

Minus 30 is a Hychill Gas - it's a certified mix of hydrocarbons that matches almost exactly a 1/2 empty bottle of LPG after the lighter volatiles have boiled off. It's fully legal in NSW and prob the rest of Oz. Check their website.

The mass of a full system full of LPG is about 100g. That'll be a huge bang compared to the 100L of petrol on board.

Either way it's more efficient than 134A and runs at a lower pressure reducing leaks. It's also fully oring compatible meaning no changes there or oil compatability issues.

R12 makes mustard gas as it burns, wouldn't that concern you far more, it's used in chemical warefare.

Paul
Lexus LX470 - hrrm Winter Tyres
Gone - Cruiser HZJ105 Turbo'd Locked & Lifted
Gone - 3L Surf
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Coogee

Post by Coogee60 »

Well thanks for all the info. Found a place close to home that stocks minus 30 and its getting charged up tomorrow morning, going to throw in some air con sealant as well as its an old system and there may be a leak somewhere. Thanks again.
FJZ80, 3 inch long travel, 35's, rear locker.
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:56 pm
Location: perth wa

Post by pantheas18_hj47 »

Keep us updated will ya and if you don't mind include the cost.

Are u in coogee WA or new south?
Drive it as far as you can then sleep in it and get up and do it all again!
Posts: 3224
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Lost in the Cleland fog!

Post by ferrit »

100gms of LPG will expand 260 times its initial volume when released, Then dilute to 21% A/F ratio, THEN explode.

it will quite effectivly blow the ever living shyt out of you and the interior of your car if it leaks into your cabin.

theres a very, very good reason why LPG lines are NEVER run internally on a vehicle- if you look at even a sedan with a cylinder in the boot- all the lines coming in and out of the cylinder are sheathed, and the line and the valves on the cylinder are vented to atmosphere.
2005 HDJ100 Manual, ARB bar, XD9000 winch, ARB rooftop tent + awning, Drawers, Engel, 2" OME lift, 285/75R16 KM2's, iCom, HID XGT's.
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:28 pm
Location: Kyrgyzstan

Post by me3@neuralfibre.com »

ferrit wrote:100gms of LPG will expand 260 times its initial volume when released, Then dilute to 21% A/F ratio, THEN explode.

it will quite effectivly blow the ever living shyt out of you and the interior of your car if it leaks into your cabin.

theres a very, very good reason why LPG lines are NEVER run internally on a vehicle- if you look at even a sedan with a cylinder in the boot- all the lines coming in and out of the cylinder are sheathed, and the line and the valves on the cylinder are vented to atmosphere.
It would burn rather than explode, and your nose would tell you about it long before. Mind you being inside, you may not care for the technical difference, but the bystanders certainly would appreciate it. (hmm I wonder if Hychill adds chemical markers to their propane/butane mix)

Paul
Lexus LX470 - hrrm Winter Tyres
Gone - Cruiser HZJ105 Turbo'd Locked & Lifted
Gone - 3L Surf
Posts: 3224
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Lost in the Cleland fog!

Post by ferrit »

at 21% A/F Ratio, vapourised LPG does NOT burn- it explodes.

seen it with my own eyes during gas fire training at CFS.
2005 HDJ100 Manual, ARB bar, XD9000 winch, ARB rooftop tent + awning, Drawers, Engel, 2" OME lift, 285/75R16 KM2's, iCom, HID XGT's.
Posts: 5803
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:02 pm
Location: Brisbane

Post by ISUZUROVER »

Anyone know someone who does LPG regassing in Perth?

IMO it is definitely the best option for old (R12) systems. Will be getting mine done soon.
_____________________________________________________________
RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
Posts: 3224
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Lost in the Cleland fog!

Post by ferrit »

cost me $230 to get my R12 system in the lux overhauled and converted to R134a, and havent noticed any change in performance (the guy spent the extra time to pull the vaccum down to -100kpa, and put a bigger than usual charge in it.
2005 HDJ100 Manual, ARB bar, XD9000 winch, ARB rooftop tent + awning, Drawers, Engel, 2" OME lift, 285/75R16 KM2's, iCom, HID XGT's.
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Coogee

Post by Coogee60 »

pantheas18_hj47 wrote:Keep us updated will ya and if you don't mind include the cost.

Are u in coogee WA or new south?
No worries, i'll update in a week or so, getting some hot days so should be able to test it out. $120 for a pressure check and refill with minus 30 (actually got quoted $28/kg for a 4.5kg bottle from a distributor but everyone has to pay the bills!) Cheaper than a retrofit and apparently it will run much colder than 134a, we'll see what happens. Coogee, NSW..
FJZ80, 3 inch long travel, 35's, rear locker.
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:56 pm
Location: perth wa

Post by pantheas18_hj47 »

ISUZUROVER wrote:Anyone know someone who does LPG regassing in Perth?

IMO it is definitely the best option for old (R12) systems. Will be getting mine done soon.
i looked on the website mentioned above for the minus 30 it thats what your talking about and the have a link to suppliers. think it was veale autos here
Drive it as far as you can then sleep in it and get up and do it all again!
Posts: 3740
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: Licking a window near you

Post by 80's_delirious »

from hychill web site:

"HyChill hydrocarbon refrigerants have a distinctive "rotting cabbage" odour added to it so that any leak can be immediately identified for rectification."
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Gold coast QLD

Post by Madmac »

ferrit wrote:cost me $230 to get my R12 system in the lux overhauled and converted to R134a, and havent noticed any change in performance (the guy spent the extra time to pull the vaccum down to -100kpa, and put a bigger than usual charge in it.
a bigger than usual charge as you put it will fu#k your compressor, refrigeration sytems are designed to run a certain ammount of refrigerant, if a system is over charged, the refrigerant will return to the compressor in a liquid state rather than as a gas vapour, gas can be compressed, liquid cant. there is absolutely no benefit in having too much refrigerant charged into a system, unless you have a leak, even then its not a benefit, it simply means the system will work for a couple of extra days before it all leaks out. IMO there is too many cowboys out there doing re gassing without locating and fixing the leaks, (re gas without locating and fixing leak is illegal) not to mention waste of time and money.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests