Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Anyone know if any R12 gas is still available in Sydney? Sorry to all the do gooders who may take offence.

Coogee60 wrote:Anyone know if any R12 gas is still available in Sydney? Sorry to all the do gooders who may take offence.

R12 hasnt been available for a few years now, it is now illegal to use it. there are replacement refrigerants you can now use instead of r12, ie r409a opr R134a. your only chance of getting R12 would be if someone has an old cylinder lying around in there shed

Ok thanks, knew it wasn't used but didn't know it was actually illegal to use it. Is there a legal and widely available gas that can be used in its place that will not require a retrofit? The vehicle is an 84 FJ60 and i'm in Sydney. Cheers, Simon.

There are replacement gases available, LPG and similar. Can't recall the name of the mob that produce gas replacement, but someone will. Seen it on a thread here recently. Doesn't require retrofit.

If you go down on a saturday and get talkin with one of the aircon blokes, most of em have a canister of R12 lying around that they will gas up for you for a slab.

If you go down on a saturday and get talkin with one of the aircon blokes, most of em have a canister of R12 lying around that they will gas up for you for a slab.

are you for real? do you actually know what R12 is worth? Even if an aircon guy had some, i seriously doubt he would gas up an a/c with it for a slab!

i am a refrigeration guy..

i got a a bit but its werth $$$ few hunge a kilo...

134a conversion, new reciever drier and gas is about $230 - $250 at most places. R12 gas alone, assuming you could find it, and find someone who would sell it to you, would probably cost twice that. There is so much competition in the car air con service market that prices are a lot more competivite than say 10 years ago, ring a few places and see what sort of price you can get, you might be surprised. the gas alone is $70ish, so the rest of the conversion is cheap.

Righto thanks. Sounds like the replacement gas is the go, anyone know what its called (er12???) and where to get it? Anyone used it? That failing, the rerofit sounds cheap, was under the impression that it would be closer to a grand. Cheers.

When ever you open a system you should replace the reciever/drier anyway. Not always but recommended. Just replace yours, they are about the cheapest part of an ac system, and use R134a. It's actualy a better gas for ac than R12 anyway. Can't go wrong

A bit of a hijack, but is there anyone here who is around the Bayswater Vic area who could service the A/C in my Mav? I'd prefer to give my business to someone on the board. Failing that, anyone reccomend a place around Bayswater?

Dave

Were starting to convert all our gear to "minis 30" runs at half pressure than r134 (so sucks less hp from your engine) and is colder aswell. R134a is on the way out now as well because they have found out it is bad for the enviro.

Yeah 134a isn't that great either. The reason it's "greener" is it doesn't deplete the ozone. But it still lingers in the atmosphere which isn't all that beneficial either really. Beats eating the ozone though I guess.

what is minis 30?

BowTieGQ wrote:When ever you open a system you should replace the reciever/drier anyway. Not always but recommended. Just replace yours, they are about the cheapest part of an ac system, and use R134a. It's actualy a better gas for ac than R12 anyway. Can't go wrong

R134a is less efficient. Your aircon will perform worse than before.

www.hychill.com.au

It's LPG with a few more $

Paul

any fridgies on here (northside brisbane) that can pump down and regass two r22 splitties for me?

There is a vast difference between LPG and 134A, the first and most important is the big bang factor, namly a leak in the system with LPG (and alot of replacment blends as they are know ) will go bang with any sort of ignition sorce broken lead, cig light in cabin if the evap cracks. Alot of replacement gases are also very very hard to smell if they leak. You have to ask yourself if in the case of an accident if you life is worth the $250 to get the system done in 134a or not. It may seem a bit dramatic but would you like LPG in the cab with you?

For me it's not the $250 holding me back from doing the retrofit it is more the fact that (from what I have been told) 134a is not as efficient as r12 and I will not get as good results from my AC. I wouldn't use LPG but a replacement gas (if safe) seems the better option. It's just a case of finding somewhere that sells it!!

Minus 30 is a Hychill Gas - it's a certified mix of hydrocarbons that matches almost exactly a 1/2 empty bottle of LPG after the lighter volatiles have boiled off. It's fully legal in NSW and prob the rest of Oz. Check their website.

The mass of a full system full of LPG is about 100g. That'll be a huge bang compared to the 100L of petrol on board.

Either way it's more efficient than 134A and runs at a lower pressure reducing leaks. It's also fully oring compatible meaning no changes there or oil compatability issues.

R12 makes mustard gas as it burns, wouldn't that concern you far more, it's used in chemical warefare.

Paul

Well thanks for all the info. Found a place close to home that stocks minus 30 and its getting charged up tomorrow morning, going to throw in some air con sealant as well as its an old system and there may be a leak somewhere. Thanks again.

Keep us updated will ya and if you don't mind include the cost.

Are u in coogee WA or new south?

100gms of LPG will expand 260 times its initial volume when released, Then dilute to 21% A/F ratio, THEN explode.

it will quite effectivly blow the ever living shyt out of you and the interior of your car if it leaks into your cabin.

theres a very, very good reason why LPG lines are NEVER run internally on a vehicle- if you look at even a sedan with a cylinder in the boot- all the lines coming in and out of the cylinder are sheathed, and the line and the valves on the cylinder are vented to atmosphere.

ferrit wrote:100gms of LPG will expand 260 times its initial volume when released, Then dilute to 21% A/F ratio, THEN explode.

it will quite effectivly blow the ever living shyt out of you and the interior of your car if it leaks into your cabin.

theres a very, very good reason why LPG lines are NEVER run internally on a vehicle- if you look at even a sedan with a cylinder in the boot- all the lines coming in and out of the cylinder are sheathed, and the line and the valves on the cylinder are vented to atmosphere.

It would burn rather than explode, and your nose would tell you about it long before. Mind you being inside, you may not care for the technical difference, but the bystanders certainly would appreciate it. (hmm I wonder if Hychill adds chemical markers to their propane/butane mix)

Paul

at 21% A/F Ratio, vapourised LPG does NOT burn- it explodes.

seen it with my own eyes during gas fire training at CFS.

Anyone know someone who does LPG regassing in Perth?

IMO it is definitely the best option for old (R12) systems. Will be getting mine done soon.

cost me $230 to get my R12 system in the lux overhauled and converted to R134a, and havent noticed any change in performance (the guy spent the extra time to pull the vaccum down to -100kpa, and put a bigger than usual charge in it.

pantheas18_hj47 wrote:Keep us updated will ya and if you don't mind include the cost.

Are u in coogee WA or new south?

No worries, i'll update in a week or so, getting some hot days so should be able to test it out. $120 for a pressure check and refill with minus 30 (actually got quoted $28/kg for a 4.5kg bottle from a distributor but everyone has to pay the bills!) Cheaper than a retrofit and apparently it will run much colder than 134a, we'll see what happens. Coogee, NSW..

ISUZUROVER wrote:Anyone know someone who does LPG regassing in Perth?

IMO it is definitely the best option for old (R12) systems. Will be getting mine done soon.

i looked on the website mentioned above for the minus 30 it thats what your talking about and the have a link to suppliers. think it was veale autos here

from hychill web site:

"HyChill hydrocarbon refrigerants have a distinctive "rotting cabbage" odour added to it so that any leak can be immediately identified for rectification."

ferrit wrote:cost me $230 to get my R12 system in the lux overhauled and converted to R134a, and havent noticed any change in performance (the guy spent the extra time to pull the vaccum down to -100kpa, and put a bigger than usual charge in it.

a bigger than usual charge as you put it will fu#k your compressor, refrigeration sytems are designed to run a certain ammount of refrigerant, if a system is over charged, the refrigerant will return to the compressor in a liquid state rather than as a gas vapour, gas can be compressed, liquid cant. there is absolutely no benefit in having too much refrigerant charged into a system, unless you have a leak, even then its not a benefit, it simply means the system will work for a couple of extra days before it all leaks out. IMO there is too many cowboys out there doing re gassing without locating and fixing the leaks, (re gas without locating and fixing leak is illegal) not to mention waste of time and money.