Diesel Gas systems TRUTH Wanted

[db1891]

Hi I want to know the truth. What Diesel Gas system should I get?
I have heard there a few different brands and Types. Torque gas type is a vapor injection that seams to me to be like the very first type gas systems the old vapor ring on top of the carby type thing and a computer injected type system.
What is the difference in cost on each type system?
What is the difference in fitting cost on each type of system?
More importantly the power output of each system?
As well as the reliability of each system? Especially if 4WD in mud water and dirt.
I have seen a Torque gas type system and I'm not sure if it is that good on a 4WD as it has a hose that gets fresh air to flow through from behind the headlight and has an agricultural looking electric box with holes in it for cooling purposes and I'm not that sure if it got full of mud if it would work well. I have a GQ TD4.2 turbo engine fully rebuilt no expense spared modded pump fuel compensator etc etc and want the most power I can get. This bloke told me on the torque gas system no extra power was achieved but a much fatter torque curve only so was better but by no means 30% more power as is typically said. Is it a crap system would a different type of system be better. I want it for power not economy and I want to actually know the difference between the systems or the different manufactures as if you are going to spend the money you want the right thing. Is there somebody I should talk to as happy to ring the right person to work it all out? Thanks Darren

[patrol man]

I have a "D"gas system, it works great and I love it, sucks only having a 28 litre gas tank, with only about 22 to 24 usable. with the long range tank fitted I can get two gas refills before refueling the diesel, more so around town, seems to work better on the open road/ highway.
The torque curve was greatly improved but the power curve was not changed that much (suspect due to the worked cam I fitted), on paper from the dyno results ( on and off).
You can really notice the difference when the system switches on, seems to have lots more get up and go, this is great for towing and over taking, and again you can notice it off road, heaps smother with better power from down low, you can idle up from low speed in high gears with little effort,
All up the system cost about $4200 with the exhaust system modified.
there is the gas rebate which brings the cost down by $2000,
To date I have have no trouble with this system and would recommend it Cheers Phill

[wholehog]

I believe you will see differences/gains on a turbo diesel, but generally not on a normally aspirated diesel... and its pretty simple to see why...

To get a bigger bang from more fuel, or a more flammable/combustible fuel mix, you need extra oxygen/air...and in a N/A diesel.. you don't get any extra oxygen/air than what it delivers with it's standard camshaft and valve timing.

Adding a turbo to a N/A diesel works, particularly when you adjust the fuel setting to give more fuel to suit the extra above atmos oxygen/air being supplied.

Squirting in some BBQ gas on top of the normal atomised diesel fuel in a N/A diesel is just not going to make the earth move for you or the engine.

[bogged]

I have a GQ TD4.2 turbo engine fully rebuilt no expense spared modded pump fuel compensator etc etc and want the most power I can get.

What power and torque are you getting now?

[tuffsahara]

will dgas work on a 12h-t fine?

[gazza 1]

Gooday , i have a system fitted from diesel\gas (depots all round aust.) Have recently had it dyno tuned from Andrew at DieselTech in Lilydale (vic) and agree that the power has increased approx.15-20%.I was told originally the mixture was around 20- 25% gas to diesel. I also had a 30 ltr. gas tank installed but wish i had say a 40-50 ltr. one. My rig was getting fantastic fuel economy at 30-35% gas mixture.The problem i had was i was running out of gas well before diesel so we pulled it back to 25%.Still great driving but no better fuel economy. My two cents.
Cheers Gazza

[truckzilla]

I have a diesel Gas Australia system fitted on a GU 4.2t ,have had it for nearly 3 years no probs in my application it makes 15rwkw's and was shown to lower temps by a couple of degrees the torque was a huge increase .

As for fuel the amount of diesel i save i use in gas (so you can say i save $4/100k's as gas costs less) However overall i use less fuel than i did before with way more power .

i would give it the big thumbs up .

[db1891]

I have a GQ TD4.2 turbo engine fully rebuilt no expense spared modded pump fuel compensator etc etc and want the most power I can get.

What power and torque are you getting now?

118hp @ the wheels with 35 eq tyres 315x75x16 4.6 diff gears 380ft pnd torque also on a dyno run up

By the way no body has told me the different type of gas techniques and prices for those kits from the different manufactures. This is what i am after

[vanbox]

I have a GQ TD4.2 turbo engine fully rebuilt no expense spared modded pump fuel compensator etc etc and want the most power I can get.

What power and torque are you getting now?

118hp @ the wheels with 35 eq tyres 315x75x16 4.6 diff gears 380ft pnd torque also on a dyno run up

By the way no body has told me the different type of gas techniques and prices for those kits from the different manufactures. This is what i am after

This isnt about who has the most power, but sounds like you have done some work to your motor...and only getting 118hp? I have a gu (unsure if they are different, its an 01 so not the bigger pump) and it only has a 3in exhaust and boost/fuel adjustments. i get 140rwhp and 850 ft pounds (or pounds feet, not sure. over 1000 nm) on 315 tires.

cant comment on the gas though

cheers

PAUL

[PFJ]

My reply from a post in the Toyota forum -
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic147900-0-0-asc-.php


"I have a torquegas system on my HJ61. Works well - when it works....

The pickup in the tank is designed to collect vapour only (high pressure). The sealed (clacker) box only contains a pressure switch and is only opened when given a signal from a relay. The relay only switches when 1. the dash mounted lpg switch is on, 2. the throttle is off idle (or wherever you set the switch on the diesel pump) and 3. when there is an engine run signal (usually off tacho or oil pressure). The box does NOT regulate mixture or flow - it only allows gas to pass at a given pressure. The pressure switch clacks away and can be adjusted slightly - but they never touch them. A holley-style main jet is fitted to the box and this determines how much gas vapour is drawn into the engine (along with slight vacuum in the intake piping, revs etc.). It really only gives a 1 point calibration. It's a 5 minute job to drill / change jet sizes to achieve the best mixture.

Another thing - everyone seems to claim that EGTs drop with gas. This is incorrect. So, watch your tuning. I aim for <500 post turbo at full noise uphill in third gear.

I have had a couple of dramas with my system - due to faulty clacker switches and dirty gas that fouls the jet.

Sorry for rattling on..... I did a fair amount of research before I made the purchase considering its 2K cheaper and much simpler than dieselgas and teamgreen who convert liquid. The owner of torquegas is a pretty big figurehead behind the 2K rebate from federal gov.

I'm a big fan of diesel gas though. Switch it on and feel the difference!!

Cheers,
Dunc."

I don't know of anyone who has compared different systems on the same engine......
DieselGas and Team Green convert liquid to gas and inject gas similar to fuel injected petrol engines. These systems offer waaay more tune-ability as there is a computer and injector involved. I went for the simple vacuum vapour system on my dinosaur to save 2K and I like simple things!

Good luck!!

Dunc.

[PFJ]

Sorry Darren, I forgot to elborate on prices....

Diesel Gas & Team Green - $5000.
Torquegas - $3000.

Allow a bit more or less for tank sizes etc.

After the $2000 rebate, Dgas / t green are +200% the price of torquegas!!!!!!

Duncan.

[bogged]

I have a GQ TD4.2 turbo engine fully rebuilt no expense spared modded pump fuel compensator etc etc and want the most power I can get.

What power and torque are you getting now?

118hp @ the wheels with 35 eq tyres 315x75x16 4.6 diff gears 380ft pnd torque also on a dyno run up

By the way no body has told me the different type of gas techniques and prices for those kits from the different manufactures. This is what i am after

This isnt about who has the most power, but sounds like you have done some work to your motor...and only getting 118hp? I have a gu (unsure if they are different, its an 01 so not the bigger pump) and it only has a 3in exhaust and boost/fuel adjustments. i get 140rwhp and 850 ft pounds (or pounds feet, not sure. over 1000 nm) on 315 tires.

118hp?? Thats 87kw... thats just about standard HP/Kw... Something is wrong in dodge. Thus the reason I asked.
Im like Vanbox... few mods and gettin more than you.

[vanbox]

I have a GQ TD4.2 turbo engine fully rebuilt no expense spared modded pump fuel compensator etc etc and want the most power I can get.

What power and torque are you getting now?

118hp @ the wheels with 35 eq tyres 315x75x16 4.6 diff gears 380ft pnd torque also on a dyno run up

By the way no body has told me the different type of gas techniques and prices for those kits from the different manufactures. This is what i am after

This isnt about who has the most power, but sounds like you have done some work to your motor...and only getting 118hp? I have a gu (unsure if they are different, its an 01 so not the bigger pump) and it only has a 3in exhaust and boost/fuel adjustments. i get 140rwhp and 850 ft pounds (or pounds feet, not sure. over 1000 nm) on 315 tires.

118hp?? Thats 87kw... thats just about standard HP/Kw... Something is wrong in dodge. Thus the reason I asked.
Im like Vanbox... few mods and gettin more than you.

Standard N/A diesel is 85kw at the motor. my father got a dts kit on a gu and got 109rwhp (285 tires) just bolt on with 3in exhaust.

Im not dissing the gas system (my old man just put a system on his, just getting economy figures now) but if your after raw HP, there are definitely better things you can do!

PAUL

[Troopy93]

I have a D-Gas system, well system number 5 actually. The latest is the version 2 TPI system.

The saga with my vehicle is still ongoing after 10 months with no noticable power improvements and still more expensive to run than pre gas. NOW Listen carefully.... don't get gas on a N/A diesel it's just not worth the stuffing around.

D-Gas are still trying to get some improvements on my vehicle but i think i'll be trying their money back guarantee soon, which I expect to work as well as their Gas system(s)....

[db1891]

Just had my car run on a dyno agoain
Pulled off the crappy Torquegas diesel system upgraded the turbo to a roller bearing turbo dropped boost pressure down from 13psi to 9psi and now have 105KW@ the wheels and the tuning and fun will now begin.. MY advice to all if wanting diesel gas for power don't do it, Upgrade the turbo less $ and way more power straight up just bolted on. PS Torgue gas system is a cheap old forklift style system back from when Noah was a boy and dinosaurrs roamed the earth. $3k is like $2300 overpriced for this system I recommend dont do it if you are considering buying one of these systems. Only by a Dieselgas Australia system . I have removed my torquegas diesel system on my car. got most of my money back from my installer left with a hole in the side of my car from the filler point I have to fix spent less money on a turbo less than $2k and already got 18kw more 3psi less boost and boost now comes on from way lower in the rev range. Just need to crank the fuel and the boost and we will see how far we can get it.Let the fun begin

[zagan]

I have a GQ TD4.2 turbo engine fully rebuilt no expense spared modded pump fuel compensator etc etc and want the most power I can get.

What power and torque are you getting now?

In Dubai there's a 300rwhp patrol done up specially for 10 second runs or less just for fun.

There's vids of it on you tube.

[bowtie landie]

GU Patrol Ute - factory turbo. Turbo swapped for Denco turbo, Denco liquid to air intercooler, Taipan exhaust, 13 lb boost. Max fuel & compensator adjusted - no hi-flow injectors or internal pump mods. 127 RWHP on 34" tyres with standard 4.1 diff gears. Turn the gas on - 160.5 RWHP with no noticeable increase in EGTs (after appropriate gas adjustments). Not set up for economy though.

L/C Troopy 6.5 V8 naturally aspirated, T400 auto. Very heavily loaded vehicle (3.8t - without the 3t caravan). Not dynoed but noticeable increase in peformance - especially down low, engine runs smoother & quiter and coolant temperature has dropped from 100 degrees C to 91. (running temp has alwasy been a concern for the owner - dual thermostat system installed etc etc) Engine oil stays cleaner and lab tests will determine if oil changes can be extended beyond 5000 km intervals. Still waiting on economy figures yet (towing, not towing, around town etc) but still definate advantages for a N/A vehicle on gas - although turbo vehicles do see more benefits.

GU Ute - not factory turbo. Mike Vine turbo fitted, no intercooler, 10 lb boost - 100 RWHP with 35s and 4.1 diff gears. No pump mods other than max fuel - no compensator. Supplied to us this way to fit gas. We did not want to raise the boost, fuel was already at max. EGTs were 500 max. Turn the gas on - 121 RWHP, max 500 EGTs.

These vehicles were all fitted with the Coldfuel system - $4500 - $5200 installed with larger than normal LPG tanks (68L, 62L & 42L LPG) . The first vehicle we raised the tray 50mm to accept the larger tank. These 3 installs were not cheap but they weren't your 'off the shelf' conversion either. Each GU ute has (at least) enough LPG for their 2 x 90L diesel tanks and the troopy has enough for 2 tanks of diesel. The systems should not become a pain to use or be vunerable if used offroad.

PK

[hollywood]

After we do the maths it sounds like youll have to keep your truck for 75 years just to pay for the conversion.. on the brighter side after that its smooth sailing

[bowtie landie]

It depends on whether or not you are trying to get the conversion to pay for itself in fuel savings or not. Many of my Customers are just after more power.

Savings are not (usually) found with upgrading or fitting a turbo and intercooler - and that will set you back more than the gas conversion.

Savings can be found in other ways - at say $50 per oil change every 5000 kms on many diesels, it doesn't take long before the savings start to add up with increased oil change intervals (lab tests recommended).

Petrol (TB42, 45 48) engines, running on straight gas have no reduction in their oil change intervals of 10000 kms. The only reason that the oil needs to be changed at 1/2 intervals with a diesel is to get rid of the soot build up associated with incomplete combustion - something which the gas improves dramatically.

Turbo conversions are great - we do quite a few - but they don't usually provide savings (or decrease the coolant temperature). I also quite often advise Customers that gas is not for them depending on vehicle, engine, use etc. Every performance enhancement has it's pros & cons to different people.