boost compensators and economy

[rockcrawler31]

Hi all

I've gone and fitted the turbo to the 1hz and after a bit of travelling around i have got some fuel figures.

I had the fuelling set by a diesel mob in queensland and it went like stink, loads of fun but i was returning anywhere between 5-6km/litre.

I wound the fuel back a bit by increments and the best i can achieve at the moment is about 7.1km to the litre, but now it's back to pre turbo power levels and couldn't pull the skin off custard.

Or perhaps it feels that way after having driven with the fuel wound up so much

so a couple of questions,

firstly, what would a normally aspirated 2001 model 1hz with 120 thousand kays with a 1991 fuel pump and injectors in excellent nick (30k kays since full rebuild) get on the dyno with 31's and 4.11 gears? just a sort of roundabout figure so i can get a bit of a bench mark.

I recall my troopy getting about 8km to the litre before i did all the work to it, am i being unreasonable thinking 7km/litre is still excessive for my car? It's now an extra cab ute with tube tray, 31's standard gearing.

how much does getting an aneroid/boost compensator fitted to the pump likely to help? can i expect to get decent power on boost and good economy just cruising on the highway?

what sort of costs are there in fitting one to a virtually brand new injector pump?

your ideas are appreciated

[mickbeny]

Hi all...If your not going to do any more mods to your engine for more HP,Fitting a boost compensator is a waste of money.However,if you are going to sqeeze big HP out of the 1HZ,then you should get a boost compensator.You should be getting around the 13 liters to the 100klm.

[KiwiBacon]

If you drive in the same way you did before the turbo was fitted then you should pick up some fuel economy. My guess is you're loving the extra go and putting your foot into it more often.
Winding the fuel in does little to help economy as most of your driving is done at part load. Drive slower and you'll save fuel.

A boost compensator will do nothing for economy, they just stop some smoke in the time when your engine isn't spinning fast enough to spool the turbo.

Did they change the injection timing?

[thehanko]

Hi all

I've gone and fitted the turbo to the 1hz and after a bit of travelling around i have got some fuel figures.

I had the fuelling set by a diesel mob in queensland and it went like stink, loads of fun but i was returning anywhere between 5-6km/litre.

I wound the fuel back a bit by increments and the best i can achieve at the moment is about 7.1km to the litre, but now it's back to pre turbo power levels and couldn't pull the skin off custard.

Or perhaps it feels that way after having driven with the fuel wound up so much

so a couple of questions,

firstly, what would a normally aspirated 2001 model 1hz with 120 thousand kays with a 1991 fuel pump and injectors in excellent nick (30k kays since full rebuild) get on the dyno with 31's and 4.11 gears? just a sort of roundabout figure so i can get a bit of a bench mark.

I recall my troopy getting about 8km to the litre before i did all the work to it, am i being unreasonable thinking 7km/litre is still excessive for my car? It's now an extra cab ute with tube tray, 31's standard gearing.

how much does getting an aneroid/boost compensator fitted to the pump likely to help? can i expect to get decent power on boost and good economy just cruising on the highway?

what sort of costs are there in fitting one to a virtually brand new injector pump?

your ideas are appreciated

use L/100km its the standard method its more linear to compare. it will make it easier to compare to other vehicles.

5Km/L = 20L/100km
6km/L = 16.7L/100km
7km/L = 14.3L/100km
8km/L = 12.5L/100km

20L is excessive - I would say 12.5/100km is very good.

most likely you are using the boot more - i use a bit more fuel now with better performance for the same reason.

Why are people saying you will not be more efficient with a boost compensator???

normaly driving around town doesnt get up to boost much - this whole time the car is over fueling to compensate for when boost comes on. unless you have a boost compensator.

so yes you are using more fuel than necissary when not on boost - hence the extra black smoke.

Whilst the difference might not be huge - yes they are more efficient with the compensator.

[GU-ish]

just wondering wat the formula is to figure out how many litres to a 100 i get out of my car

[coxy321]

Hi all

I've gone and fitted the turbo to the 1hz and after a bit of travelling around i have got some fuel figures.

I had the fuelling set by a diesel mob in queensland and it went like stink, loads of fun but i was returning anywhere between 5-6km/litre.

I wound the fuel back a bit by increments and the best i can achieve at the moment is about 7.1km to the litre, but now it's back to pre turbo power levels and couldn't pull the skin off custard.

Or perhaps it feels that way after having driven with the fuel wound up so much

so a couple of questions,

firstly, what would a normally aspirated 2001 model 1hz with 120 thousand kays with a 1991 fuel pump and injectors in excellent nick (30k kays since full rebuild) get on the dyno with 31's and 4.11 gears? just a sort of roundabout figure so i can get a bit of a bench mark.

I recall my troopy getting about 8km to the litre before i did all the work to it, am i being unreasonable thinking 7km/litre is still excessive for my car? It's now an extra cab ute with tube tray, 31's standard gearing.

how much does getting an aneroid/boost compensator fitted to the pump likely to help? can i expect to get decent power on boost and good economy just cruising on the highway?

what sort of costs are there in fitting one to a virtually brand new injector pump?

your ideas are appreciated

use L/100km its the standard method its more linear to compare. it will make it easier to compare to other vehicles.

5Km/L = 20L/100km
6km/L = 16.7L/100km
7km/L = 14.3L/100km
8km/L = 12.5L/100km

20L is excessive - I would say 12.5/100km is very good.

most likely you are using the boot more - i use a bit more fuel now with better performance for the same reason.

Why are people saying you will not be more efficient with a boost compensator???

normaly driving around town doesnt get up to boost much - this whole time the car is over fueling to compensate for when boost comes on. unless you have a boost compensator.

so yes you are using more fuel than necissary when not on boost - hence the extra black smoke.

Whilst the difference might not be huge - yes they are more efficient with the compensator.

Well said. I agree with you 100% there. The reason why most people dont get boost compesators on their fuel pumps is purely due to the costs involved.

[KiwiBacon]

Why are people saying you will not be more efficient with a boost compensator???

Because you'd need to be "really special" to drive in the rev range that pumps black smoke often enough for it to make any difference.
That's presuming you are dumping in enough fuel to create black smoke in the first place.

[Weiner]

just wondering wat the formula is to figure out how many litres to a 100 i get out of my car

Chriso, next time you fill up, se ewhat your trip meter is at (reset it when you fill up) and then note the kms and how many litres it took to fill up and put it in at here.

http://www.thelongranger.com.au/longran ... tools.html

[brad-chevlux]

Why are people saying you will not be more efficient with a boost compensator???

Because you'd need to be "really special" to drive in the rev range that pumps black smoke often enough for it to make any difference.
That's presuming you are dumping in enough fuel to create black smoke in the first place.

awesome tech

[hoppy's79]

how much is a boost controller?

[GU-ish]

how much is a boost controller?

can get a cheap one from auto barn for about $70 or get a Turbosmart one for about 100-130ish. i payed a 100 for mine (turbosmart) on sale at auto barn not long ago

[coxy321]

how much is a boost controller?

EDIT: Jump on eBay and search for "boost controller" under cars/bikes/boats section. GFB is pretty good IMO. Might even be an aussie company if i remember correctly......

Go for something simple though - less parts means less stuff to break.

[hoppy's79]

yeah cheers, made a typo meant to ask how much a compensator is. i got a dual stage turbo smart controller but doesn't really make any difference think it would if i had a compensator on my fuel pump though

[money_killer]

edit

[coxy321]

yeah cheers, made a typo meant to ask how much a compensator is. i got a dual stage turbo smart controller but doesn't really make any difference think it would if i had a compensator on my fuel pump though

$800-$900 roughly from memory, plus tuning.

[Chucky]

I have the 1Hz in a 80, DTS turbo intercooler running 16PSI and fully recommend the boost compensater.
I'm returning about the 14-14.5L/100km (About 7-7.5 km/l) and thats not driving gently. When I drive like I've got miss daisy in the car I return heaps better again.
Thats with 33" tyres, steel barwork all around, roof rack on about half the time and drawer system half full of crap and spares.

And she'll pull a sailor of your sister as well. She just turned 300K over and still starts first turn of the key and blows bugger all smoke. of any color.

[hoppy's79]

yeah cheers fella's that is definately on the list, have been thinking of getting one for a while, my fuel enonomy is up the shit. get's about 20L/100km, and that's withthe pyro only getting to 450 loading it up down the beach

[rockcrawler31]

thanks for the replies all

those figures i have quoted were on a long drive i have recently done from sydney to adelaide and back. i was progressively winding back the fuel screw at each fuel stop and calculating usage at the same time. I was deliberately driving like miss daisy to try and see what i can get out of it on a long trip.

As i mentioned the best i have gotten before the turbo was 8km/litre or 12.5L/100km

the best i could manage was 7.1km litre (14.2L/100km) and it is getting pretty hopeless by then.

By the way the litres to 100km is a fairly recent measure and the ol' km to the litre is just as empirical and is better for calculating other things like range and distance between fuel stops.

can anyone tell me what the dyno figures are for a standard 1HZ as described?

[rockcrawler31]

Why are people saying you will not be more efficient with a boost compensator???

Because you'd need to be "really special" to drive in the rev range that pumps black smoke often enough for it to make any difference.
That's presuming you are dumping in enough fuel to create black smoke in the first place.

Um no.

mine blows the smoke at low rpm's which while on the highway is rare but around town is all the time. I'm no hoon, in fact i'm a bit of a pussy cat in the way i treat my cars.

[+dj_hansen+]

just wondering wat the formula is to figure out how many litres to a 100 i get out of my car

100/(km travelled / litres used)

Remember to take into account that you dont always fill to the same level in the tank (if you have a cruiser with dual tanks a small amount of fuel passes into the sub tank aswell) etc etc but should be accurate enough to get down to half a litre-ish.

[KiwiBacon]

Why are people saying you will not be more efficient with a boost compensator???

Because you'd need to be "really special" to drive in the rev range that pumps black smoke often enough for it to make any difference.
That's presuming you are dumping in enough fuel to create black smoke in the first place.

Um no.

mine blows the smoke at low rpm's which while on the highway is rare but around town is all the time. I'm no hoon, in fact i'm a bit of a pussy cat in the way i treat my cars.

You can mimick the effect of a boost compensator very easily. Apply pedal pressure more gently until the turbo is producing boost. It doesn't do anything you can't already do, it just mechanises it.

So try driving like that for a tank or two and see if it makes any difference. I suspect it won't.

[coxy321]

Also, what speeds are you travelling at?? It's got me baffled how people dont understand/know why speed plays such an important role in a cars fuel efficiency. Read below to find out why....

The power to overcome air resistance increases roughly with the cube of the speed, and thus the energy required per unit distance is roughly proportional to the square of speed. Because air resistance increases so rapidly with speed, above about 48 km/h, it becomes a dominant limiting factor. Driving at 72 rather than 105 km/h, results in about one-third the power to overcome wind resistance, or about one half the energy per unit distance, and much greater fuel economy can be achieved. Increasing speed to 145 km/h from 105 km/h increases the power requirement by 2.6 times, the energy by 1.9 times, and decreases fuel economy. In real world vehicles the change in fuel economy is less than the values quoted above due to complicating factors.

Considering were talking Patrols and Cruisers here, which have the aerodynamic efficiency of a large refrigerator - i say that speed should be one of the most important things you should be looking at when trying to sort out your average fuel consumption/costs.

I do a LOT of freeway driving in the Patrol, and i usually sit well under the marked speed limit. I can get over 200km extra out of a tank if i slow down.

Coxy

[bogged]

I can get over 200km extra out of a tank if i slow down.

I found if I sit on 60, I get a lot more out of a tank, just have to leave a week earlier, and listen to kids screaming for extra days...

[80diesel4play]

The boost compensator will only allow more fuel once boost is mde, so you need to knwo what rpm you are making boost from.

So drive like a nanna and barely spool up - you'll see a difference in both time taken and fuel used...

Overall - what do you expect? If you had the whole lot dyno'd and it went like stink I'm assuming the tuner asked this obvious question..."Did you want to see what we can get it to do - or are you a sook?"
Your response would be - "Yes I'm a man - make it go - thats why i bought the turbo!"

Hence fuel used and go factor obtained. why you would mess with a tuned pump just gobsmacks me... You wasted coin when you could have done this yourself!???

Overall if driven respectfully a boosted vehicle shoudl show imnproved fuel consumption, however your results may vary based on way too many factors...

I'm currently grateful to return under 19L/100Km from my slug. Looking for ward to better reuslts with new turbo tho.

[rockcrawler31]

The boost compensator will only allow more fuel once boost is mde, so you need to knwo what rpm you are making boost from.

So drive like a nanna and barely spool up - you'll see a difference in both time taken and fuel used...

Overall - what do you expect? If you had the whole lot dyno'd and it went like stink I'm assuming the tuner asked this obvious question..."Did you want to see what we can get it to do - or are you a sook?"
Your response would be - "Yes I'm a man - make it go - thats why i bought the turbo!"

Hence fuel used and go factor obtained. why you would mess with a tuned pump just gobsmacks me... You wasted coin when you could have done this yourself!???

Overall if driven respectfully a boosted vehicle shoudl show imnproved fuel consumption, however your results may vary based on way too many factors...

I'm currently grateful to return under 19L/100Km from my slug. Looking for ward to better reuslts with new turbo tho.

You are right to a degree but wrong otherwise. In chatting to my tuner i asked for a moderate level of boost and power, not a race engine but not a slug either. I don't blame the dude that tuned the car, and i only started winding back the fuel after chatting to him some more. It's all a bit of experimentation not expectation. I wasted my coin the first time because i like to have someone who is qualified to play with the fuelling on an expensive diesel engine, and after that i will play with the settings myself after picking his brain. It's one thing to learn how to set a wheel bearing by yourself it's altogether another to play with a fuel pump without learning off an expert. Money well wasted in my opinion.

why to people keep assuming that i don't drive my vehicle respectfully? Anyone who ever meets me knows that i'm anal about looking after my car and i've posted before about treating and expensive machine like sh*t.

On the highway i've been keeping my speeds to 95-100max. I've noticed however that regardless of driving conditions, speed, load, weight, it seems to return the same fuel economy withing a one or two decimal places of L/100km.

[KiwiBacon]

The boost compensator will only allow more fuel once boost is mde, so you need to knwo what rpm you are making boost from.

They actually work the other way, they reduce fuel when off boost. The max the pump can deliver per shot is still set.

[coxy321]

On the highway i've been keeping my speeds to 95-100max. I've noticed however that regardless of driving conditions, speed, load, weight, it seems to return the same fuel economy withing a one or two decimal places of L/100km.

That sounds very strange....there should be at least SOME variation there.

[thehanko]

Im no expert on boost compensators but considered getting one of a hilux 2L engine. it was for sale on ebay and claimed that it would also fit other hilux and also many landcruiser injector pumps?

im a touch sceptical especialy that it would fit a cruiser, but if this were true it would make for a cheap mod.

can anyone shed any light on it.

[80's_delirious]

The boost compensator will only allow more fuel once boost is mde, so you need to knwo what rpm you are making boost from.

They actually work the other way, they reduce fuel when off boost. The max the pump can deliver per shot is still set.

Boost compensator lets you increase the amount of fuel delivered to the engine. When not under boost, the boost compensator actually reduces the amount of fuel delilvered,ie reducing fuel and smoke at idle/or low boost low load situations.

As the turbo produces boost, the boost pressure overides an adjustable spring to increase the amount of fuel as air volume and pressure from turbo increases.

For 1HD-T the boost compensator gives you four main adjustments,
-max fuel volume adjustment (no different to 1HZ),
-off boost fuel volume (ie idle/low boost/low load fuel setting),
-boost compensator characteristic (adjustable spring preload) preload determines how quickly boost pressure will allow an increase to fuel delivery as boost increases,
-and the amount that fuel delivery is increased as the boost compensator kicks in.
then you have idle and max RPM/throttle position adjustments.
So you should be able to have good performance and reduce fuel consumption a little.

I think I got that right its tricky to get it all working at its best, lots of trial and error

I dont know how you would mimick all this unless your driving miss daisy?

[80diesel4play]

The boost compensator will only allow more fuel once boost is mde, so you need to knwo what rpm you are making boost from.

They actually work the other way, they reduce fuel when off boost. The max the pump can deliver per shot is still set.

Aside from my lack of "a"' ...This is WHAT i was getting at.

Boost compensator will retard the fuel until boost is made. So ultimately and the way it works is, you can put your foot to the floor but until boost presure is there the compensator holds the fuel delivery until psi pushes the compensator down into the pump, allowing more fuel to pass the controller.

It is a touch and go scenario as there ar all sorts of factors at play. Such as:
How old is the pump and injectors? Are fuel filters changed regularly? Air filter clean(and snorkel!)? What size exhaust do you run? How restrictive is it? What turbo setup is in? Got intercooler?

Seems odd that you're not getting results in terms of L/100 if you do keep it under 100km/h...
If it's all hills though you have expect to use fuel one way or the other.