Dumb question about P76's

[GURU]

G'day all,

what exactly is a P76, leyland isn't it? does it look like a rover 3.5? how can you tell the differance?? what is the differance between the 3.5 and P76's ??

How can you tell if P76's have the 4.4 heads or 3.5 rover heads. do the rover rocker covers fit 4.4 heads ??


sorry about all the questions but i'm looking at getting a P76, but I want to kow that it really is one.

also some power and touque figures would be nice if anyone knows

[Loanrangie]

Das, 4.4 is wider and taller than 3.5 and first give away is the engine number is just above bell housing where as 3.5 is on lhd cyl head.
They came with pressed metal valve covers and a 2brl stromberg carb and only have 2 rows of head bolts unlike rovers 3, when fitting rover heads most dont go to the trouble of drilling and tapping the 3rd row of bolts so this is also a give away. The 4.4 was also used in the Leyland Terrier truck. There are mixed experiences with 4.4 conversions.

[SOLIHL]

Hi Das,
From memory the P76 put out 200bhp when new, not sure about torque figure, but feels like a lot more torque than a 3.5 rover.
The leyland is wider than the 3.5, but a lot of the external stuff interchanges, so can disguise the engine swap. The front cover should be swapped over so you run stock rover water pump, oil pump, dizzy etc. My P76 also has rover alloy rocker covers but i still have the 2brl stromberg. A lot of folk fit the rover intakes with spacer plates which further adds to the deception, and also keeps everything externally rover.
Overheating can be an issue with these motors BUT if done right should not cause a problem. Dropping a 4.4 litre engine in a tight space using a 20 year old radiator designed for a 3.5 litre in english climates is asking for trouble. However when equipped with a correctly sized aussie 4 core and some vents in the bulkhead to let the heat out there should be no probs.
I know some do not like this swap but I drive about 10k on mine every year on LPG and the added torque of the P76 is great.
Kevin

[Bush65]

P76 4.4l was based on rover 3.5l. Has same bore but longer stroke - that probably explains why it is taller, it is the reason why it produces more torque.

As others said it does not have the extra head bolts, but rover also went to the same head bolt pattern as p76 eventually.

P76 rocker arms are on posts, not shafts like rover. Lube to P76 rocker gear is via the lifters and hollow push rods - lube to rover rocker shaft is via drillings in the block and heads.

Rover alloy rocker covers fit the p76 heads.

From p76 manual - 192 hp at 4260 rpm, 285 lbft torque at 2500 rpm
From range rover 3.5 manual - 130 hp at 5000 rpm, torque 185 lbft at 2500 rpm up to 1979,
156 hp at 5000 rpm, torque 205 lbft at 3000 rpm 1979 onwards.

[GURU]

Cheers guys, exactly what I needed to know

the P76 bolt straight upto R380 ??

Is the clutch and flywheel the same as the 3.5 ? And can i fit the 3.5 intake manifold to the P76 ?? (I want to run my carby and gas system on it)

[Bush65]

Bellhousing pattern is same as 3.5l, so if R380 was of a v8 it would be ok.

Flywheel looks similar, but starter may be different spigot and nose but not sure - too long ago for me.

You can fit 3.5 manifold with spacers (from Torak Tractors ??).

[Bodge]

Starters are not interchangable between Rover and P76 - an adaptor is needed as the mounting holes are different sizes. I managed to find a gear reduction starter for cheaper than rebuilding my old one though...


The original stromberg WW carb is a POS and would not run on angles.

I used the original manifold and had an adaptor welded on rather than the plates from toorak... The intake manifolds on the P76 are not the best sealing things in the first place so the less surfaces to seal the better...

[SOLIHL]

Das,
There is some good (and some dubious) info on the P76's here www.leylandp76.com . They say P76 into rangie is no good but there are a lot of us out there who have P76 conversions who would say otherwise (right Bodge??)
Also check out http://sandm.alphalink.com.au/leyland.html
Rover starters fit with an adaptor ring fitted which gives plenty of choices. Fit rover front to use rover waterpump, dizzy, oilpump etc to keep servicing simple. Rover stuff is easier to find, the young folk at repco etc know what a rangerover is but mention P76 and they get this blank look....
Kevin

[TuffRR]

I question that you can't use a RR starter with a P76 without a spacer. I've hooked mine up without one and haven't had any dramas (to do with the starter at least )

Toorak Tractors who do a lot of P76 conversions were not even aware of using a spacer.

[SOLIHL]

They will fit and work for a while without the ring, BUT very loose with no support around the starter nose, as without it they are only held/supported by the bolts. A decent kickback during starting and they will snap the alloy mounts around the bolts etc of the starter. BTW i have a broken rover starter in my shed to back this up!
The spacer ring makes the alloy snout a snug fit where it passes through the hole in the block to help support it all. Check your block next time you have the starter out, you may see there is a ring pressed in there already, rather than fitted to the starter. Without the ring the starter will be a very loose fit.
I have never dealt with toorak tractors but check with Rangerov or one of the others, i know Rangerov stock them, Alan would not sell me a rover starter for my P76 unless there was one fitted.
Kevin

[SOLIHL]

Exhibit 1

[TuffRR]

Thanks for the info Solihl. I'd better get me a ring soon then, a buggared starter is just something else i don't need.

[SOLIHL]

From memory they are about $20 from Rangerov, which seems a lot for a plasma cut "washer" but its cheaper than a starter.
Kevin

[Hamish]

Hi Kevin

Where do you get the adaptors? I've not heard of RangeRov.

My original P76 starter has croaked for the last time I think...

Currently I have a RR starter of sorts, which is not the proper fit around the spigot, and tho I have been assured it is not a problem, I never really believed it.

Your photo is all the confirmation I need.

Cheers

Hamish
( about 500km south of ya)

[Hamish]

Hi Das

The P76 flywheel is different. If adapting a manual gearbox, you will have to get a RR flywheel redrilled to P76 bolt pattern and get a spigot bush made to suit.

It's not complicated & should not be all that expensive. Then it all bolts up easy.

As for the carbies... I kept my SU's and used the spacers. Don't go that way. It leaks 'orribly. Bodge has the good idea.

Cheers

Hamish

[SOLIHL]

Rangerov are in Melbourne (eastern suburbs) Not sure who stocks them in NZ, Maybe someone like Mamaku 4WD??
kevin

[TuffRR]

I just ordered the ring from Range Rov. $45 plus postage - better be a bloody high tech washer!!!!!

[TUFRR]

you could have made your own from a piece of gal pipe cut to 3mm thick.

[Ralf the RR]

I have recently replaced the brushes in the starter motor in my 4.4 RR.
The starter is not the one shown in the photo above.
I have an M45 which is a RR starter.
The one in the photo looks like an 3M100PE starter which is also a RR starter.

Although I haven't had the vehicle long, I believe the starter has never failed. It certainly showed no signs of cracking or breaking around the bolt holes.

Harry

[Nick (in the Falklands!)]

.....Saw some P76 engines whilst in NZ; did they not have single twin barrel carbs, some of them...?

...Or was this the Terrier engine...?

[TuffRR]

I think that the Terrier and P76 engines were effectively the same the only difference being different compression ratios. There may have been other differences but they were both a 4.4 of the same bore and stroke.

[Bush65]

.....Saw some P76 engines whilst in NZ; did they not have single twin barrel carbs, some of them...?

...Or was this the Terrier engine...?

Thats right, they had a single 2 barrel carb.

[Bodge]

.....Saw some P76 engines whilst in NZ; did they not have single twin barrel carbs, some of them...?

...Or was this the Terrier engine...?

Thats right, they had a single 2 barrel carb.

Stromberg WW in fact... POS made a better paperweight than carb...