temperamental 3rz please please please help

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:58 pm

ok wiring in the 3rz to my yn67. can someone try please exlain this.
all wiring is done as per cheat sheet found..
it only start when it wants to just got home from work and it started strait away. runs fine not missing at all, turned it off and it wont go now????
there is no spark, then there is spark,then there isnt any again... anyone got any ideas where to start looking...?
relays are new no fuses blown

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:06 pm

Lose Earth

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:56 pm

have the battery earthed to body and to where the power steering pump used to go. all earths from computer and relays are straght to battery
cheers mate.. will check all again and move engine earth and see what happens. anything else?

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:18 pm

Coil pack or lead, its not blowing fuses

Post by **chimpboy** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:20 pm

I think you do need to check all your connections.

Is spark ECU controlled on these motors or is it independent? If the ECU controls spark then I would be wondering about various sensors as well as the more obvious spark stuff, ie is there a fault condition where the ECU is designed to kill the spark.

Other obvious ones for an engine swap situation, is your fuel pump running? Have you got leftover wires that you haven't hooked up and if so what are they, are you sure they can be left off?

Is your cheat sheet for an Aust motor, I am not sure but I've read that there are differences with the US spec stuff, so if you've just gotten a cheat sheet of the web it could be something to check.

Good luck.

ps going by this thread you might want to send a PM to Willy Hilux. http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic113500.php

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:34 pm

Scantool would help
$4000
Sorry $5250 +

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:42 pm

cheers guys
first its not blowing any fuses and the fuel pump is working. changed earth over to where the lifting hook is and made no differance.
thanks chimp boy ill send willy a pm. im pretty sure its computer related myself. dont know too much about these motors but all my wiring is done off this cheat sheet of outers. i put a * too the things ive connected to the relays if it helps thanks heaps this sheet is cut and pasted from here
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1599588.php

PLUG A (26 pin) - Connect to Computer Untouched
> PLUG B (16 pin) - Connect to Computer Untouched
>
> PLUG C (22 pin) - Connect to Computer - With the Following Additions
> (from
> the original body harness)
>
> ESSENTIAL:
> C1 Yellow +ve Constant 12V+ from a
> fused battery source - input *to +battery via fuse
> C11 Pink & Black +ve Starter motor
> trigger ie. ign switch - input * 85 on efi relay and linked to acc
> C12 Red & Blue +ve Supplied from EFI
> relay - input * 87 on efi relay
> C14 Green & Yellow -ve Trigger for fuel
> pump relay - output * fuel pump relay
> 2 x 4 Pole Relays (EFI & Fuel Pump)
>
> NON ESSENTIAL:
> C4 Green & White Connect to stop
> light switch - input
> C5 Violet & Green -ve Check engine light -
> output
> C8 Red & White Tacho - output
> C9 Green & Orange Vehicle Speed Sensor - input
> C13 Green & Black 4WD Switch - input
>
> PLUG D (13 pin) - Supply the following sources into the loom
>
> ESSENTIAL:
> D1 Top Row Red & Blue +ve Supply to
> airflow meter from EFI relay - input * 87 on efi relay
> D2 Bottom Row Black & Brown +ve Supply to ignition
> coil from EFI relay - input * 87 on efi relay
> D6 Bottom Row Brown -ve Earthed to chassis -
> input * - battery
>
> PLUG E - Engine Diagnosis Port

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:45 pm

beinthemud wrote:Scantool would help
$4000
Sorry $5250 +

\
haha im already in trouble blown the $3k budget way out lol otherwise id just take it to a shop

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

YN67highlux wrote:
beinthemud wrote:Scantool would help
$4000
Sorry $5250 +
\
haha im already in trouble blown the $3k budget way out lol otherwise id just take it to a shop

Worth a try

I see the problem
(1) Take Fuel pump out
(2) Run Power wire to were Fuel Pump used to be
(3) Turn Key On
(4) Take insurence Money and Buy a Landcruiser

Farkit Just buy one of them Great wall 4x4s surely if the japenese can make a good 4x4 the Chinese can

Post by **chimpboy** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:57 pm

Going by gut feel I'd be looking pretty closely at the earth connection from the ignition modules or "ignitors" if that's what they are called. These things can be very fricking sensitive to how well grounded they are.

Other than that my other suggestion is turn the ignition on and check that you have +12V and ground everywhere you should. If I am reading right there is a bit of negative switched stuff here and there and for me at least that would be easy to make wiring mistakes with.

Post by **chimpboy** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:58 pm

beinthemud wrote:
YN67highlux wrote:
beinthemud wrote:Scantool would help
$4000
Sorry $5250 +
\
haha im already in trouble blown the $3k budget way out lol otherwise id just take it to a shop

Worth a try
I see the problem
(1) Take Fuel pump out
(2) Run Power wire to were Fuel Pump used to be
(3) Turn Key On
(4) Take insurence Money and Buy a Landcruiser

Farkit Just buy one of them Great wall 4x4s surely if the japenese can make a good 4x4 the Chinese can

You are a weird bloke sometimes.

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:16 pm

chimpboy wrote:
beinthemud wrote:
YN67highlux wrote:
beinthemud wrote:Scantool would help
$4000
Sorry $5250 +
\
haha im already in trouble blown the $3k budget way out lol otherwise id just take it to a shop

Worth a try
I see the problem
(1) Take Fuel pump out
(2) Run Power wire to were Fuel Pump used to be
(3) Turn Key On
(4) Take insurence Money and Buy a Landcruiser

Farkit Just buy one of them Great wall 4x4s surely if the japenese can make a good 4x4 the Chinese can
You are a weird bloke sometimes.

Thanks man

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:34 pm

yea we had a bit of drama with the fuel pump when we first put it in because we didnt realiase it was neg switched but all sorted now. will run the multi meter over a few things and get back to yas thanks.

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:45 pm

ok ive just checked every earth and power i can find. every thing has 12.04v
this mite help diagnosing it. i was double checking spark and earthed number 1 lead on tapper cover bolt and it started??? pluged the lead back in and it wont start. this is the second time this has happend during checking for spark. any ideas. thanks again

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:47 pm

plugs are new. leads??????

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:50 pm

YN67highlux wrote:ok ive just checked every earth and power i can find. every thing has 12.04v
this mite help diagnosing it. i was double checking spark and earthed number 1 lead on tapper cover bolt and it started??? pluged the lead back in and it wont start. this is the second time this has happend during checking for spark. any ideas. thanks again

Well that Suggests its easier for the spark to go another way than down the Lead, or it earthed it Properly

Post by **popeyehj60** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:52 pm

it sounds like you've got an earth issue.

if it was just the lead then it'd be missing. id play with earths for the ignitors while cranking see it changes.

Post by **chimpboy** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:54 pm

Just add a big fat new ground to the ignitors and see what difference it makes.

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:58 pm

popeyehj60 wrote:it sounds like you've got an earth issue.

if it was just the lead then it'd be missing. id play with earths for the ignitors while cranking see it changes.

Sometimes not
I had similar ,I would be driving along and the car would turn off and wouldn't start .When it did it was fine
Turns out it was the lead from the coil
I was checking the leads to see if they hadn't fallen off and it fell apart in my hand.It was a Ford for the record so who knows

Post by **Rory** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:08 pm

do you have a earth to the engine block?(didnt catch if u did or didnt). the coils also have the ignitors in them.

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:25 pm

ok just waiting for my mate to turn up to find these earths. i ran an earth over from what i think is the earth from coil packs and it made no difference but what i did notice is its firing once when u turn key off after winding it over..? not the first time this has happened either. thats what is making this thing hard to diagnose is that something different happens every time i go to start it and just goes around in circles. it runs then it doesnt, then theres spark then theres not, then theres 1 spark when turnig key off ??????
thinking that it has to be ignition mayby stuffed coils?

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:28 pm

Sometimes this helps.
Before your mate turns up work out all the Power and earth wires ,
When he turns it over try pushing the wires in could be a lose one that is just connecting But when you try to start it it wiggles lose ,Worth a shot

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:41 pm

rito will give it a go wiggling wires.
just double checked i have earthed the right thing on coils. still no go. and thanks rory, yes the earth from back of motor is on. bolted it strait on where the earth from original engine went.
just to let u guys know there is 2 coils on these motors one for igniting 1 and 4 and one for 2and 3. both times it has started while earthing onto tapper cover it has been number 1 lead if it makes a difference

Post by **beinthemud** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:49 pm

Can you change them around

so 1 and four become 2 and 3 and so on

Post by **YN67highlux** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:06 pm

hahaha we have a winner.... another problem sorted by the outers crew.
**could be a lose one that is just connecting But when you try to start it it wiggles lose ,Worth a shot**
have been rattling all these wires before but not while trying to start it.....just went and started wiggling wires whilst trying to start it and wella. these thing must run in sequence or something. number 2 ignition needs a wiggle whilst starting it and it goes. hope i didnt wake the niebours haha

thank you guys verry much for your time

Post by **chimpboy** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:29 pm

Post by **chimpboy** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:30 pm

Post by **YN67highlux** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:27 am

ok so ive just got new coil packs, leads and plugs, and its still not going. any other ideas. every one i talk too says earth. i have an earth hooked up to back of motor to firewall. batery hooked up to body and motor. all earths have been checked with multi meter and are fine. all computer earths and relay earths are strait to battery. any one got any other ideas?????? and i can wggle the wires still and it goes every now and then. i have checked the loom and cand find any breaks
thanks shaun

Post by **Guy** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:14 pm

What method are you using to test your earths .. if you have an OHM meter use it.

I was caught out with similar issue on an instrument panel would light up for random period, then die.

Turned out the main power lead has massive corosion internally, would register 12 volts, but would fail as soon as any sort of load was on it due to resistance.

Post by **YN67highlux** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:57 pm

thanks love mud. no i wasnt but just tryed ohm meter and all earths are good. just rang wreckers and the ute they got motor out of was rear ended and before they pulled motor out they ran it and tested it, every thing fine. so its something weve done or havnt done? still makes no sesnce that it will run fine with a lead earthed on tapper cover?

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temperamental 3rz please please please help

temperamental 3rz please please please help

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