td42 plus 2871R 71mm, 56 trim 0.60ar 0.64 exhaust housing

[terranonut]

hey guys just playing round with anouther motor:) Fresh TD42

Mate has offered me the above turbo off his Silia to try running 12mm plunger round 120c/c fuel at the moment.

Questions is this turbo worth trying? and secondly could i push one of these to around 150rwkw or better i have been told the response is pretty good on these? Have large water to air intergrated into plenium chamber to intercooler so that will be upto the task.

Feedback appriciated i'm guessing this ones been covered before but had trouble finding any exact figures on the above.

It its not worth the hassle have access to the mitsi Evo range of turbos.

Cheers

[Northside 4x4]

in my opinion any of the td05 range will be better than a 2871. Its a bit of a mismatch for the td42.
I think if your after awesome bottom end either a 2860 or equivelant TD turbo (which will still get close to 150kw).
If your after more power from 2200rpm and later a GTX30/71 or equivelant TD turbo would be better (good for 200kw+)

[terranonut]

Right went through mates shed yesterday and found a couple evo 7 turbos, evo 9 and some vf22.

With regard to the evo turbos northside what in your opinion would be the better one to go for? Lucky to have a mate with so many optiosn sitting in his workshop.Looking for something quick to respond got anouther truck with Holset HX35W 12cm exhaust for the top end stuff it comes on song around the same time as that other turbo you mentioned (GTX30) and just keeps pulling:)

[Northside 4x4]

Right went through mates shed yesterday and found a couple evo 7 turbos, evo 9 and some vf22.

With regard to the evo turbos northside what in your opinion would be the better one to go for? Lucky to have a mate with so many optiosn sitting in his workshop.Looking for something quick to respond got anouther truck with Holset HX35W 12cm exhaust for the top end stuff it comes on song around the same time as that other turbo you mentioned (GTX30) and just keeps pulling:)

Something like a td05 16g would go ok on a patrol. With somewhere around 7cm/2 housing.

[UGOTNUFN]

Have a read of this thread mate !!!!

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... lts-57407/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Northside 4x4]

Have a read of this thread mate !!!!

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... lts-57407/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes very good advertising.

[UGOTNUFN]

Have a read of this thread mate !!!!

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... lts-57407/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes very good advertising.

And i see youve taken something from it as well and are now suggesting them>>>

[Northside 4x4]

Have always used Mitsuibishi turbo's. For longer even than I have used Garrett.
At the moment, garretts offerings are more suitable to the needs of the kit I make, so thats what I use most of the time.

[UGOTNUFN]

Have always used Mitsuibishi turbo's. For longer even than I have used Garrett.
At the moment, garretts offerings are more suitable to the needs of the kit I make, so thats what I use most of the time.

Man you tell some tall stories!!!

ROFlMFAO

[CustomTurbos]

Have always used Mitsuibishi turbo's. For longer even than I have used Garrett.
At the moment, garretts offerings are more suitable to the needs of the kit I make, so thats what I use most of the time.

Not trying to flame or anything here, but while Garrett is a fine product, my personal belief is that those needs predominantly include marketability and the name "Garrett" and the term "Ball Bearing" both fill those needs very nicely.

[Northside 4x4]

Being ballbearing is a good benefit. As is having the backing of such a great brand. So yep dead right on both accounts.
Add to that reasonable pricing, stock level, excellent backup/support if anything should go wrong, acceptable range of options for their range.

So yes there is more to it than just the fact that they perform exceptionally well.

UGOTNUFN - 75%+ Of all subaru's that come through are upgraded with Mitsu turbo's. So your point is?

[UGOTNUFN]

Being ballbearing is a good benefit. As is having the backing of such a great brand. So yep dead right on both accounts.
Add to that reasonable pricing, stock level, excellent backup/support if anything should go wrong, acceptable range of options for their range.

So yes there is more to it than just the fact that they perform exceptionally well.

UGOTNUFN - 75%+ Of all subaru's that come through are upgraded with Mitsu turbo's. So your point is?

Gives a fuck about subarus mate, we are talking TD42's here buddy.

You NEVER EVER mentioned a TD0?? until there seemed to be some good talk and results about them on TD42's and now you all of a sudden want to get in on the act.

Anyway youve tried everything on everything haven't you .

[Northside 4x4]

Being ballbearing is a good benefit. As is having the backing of such a great brand. So yep dead right on both accounts.
Add to that reasonable pricing, stock level, excellent backup/support if anything should go wrong, acceptable range of options for their range.

So yes there is more to it than just the fact that they perform exceptionally well.

UGOTNUFN - 75%+ Of all subaru's that come through are upgraded with Mitsu turbo's. So your point is?

Gives a . about subarus mate, we are talking TD42's here buddy.

You NEVER EVER mentioned a TD0?? until there seemed to be some good talk and results about them on TD42's and now you all of a sudden want to get in on the act.

Anyway youve tried everything on everything haven't you .

Read the post again. I said Garrett or TD equivelant.
You know why I said that, because he was asking specifically about Mitsu turbo's and I was giving him the general sizing based off Garrett as that's what I use on that particular engine.

I still havent seen a "good' result that you talk about using TD turbo's though. All the ones I have seen have a lazy boost curve and lack the top end grunt of garretts equivelant.

[terranonut]

Hey guys thanks for all the advice its quite difficult getting any decent feedback on turbos for td42 in NZ everybody has their opinion however very few it seems have ever tried what they recommend as i have found out with previous turbos that have tried on their recommendation.

I still stuck in the middle with regard turbo selection was aiming for something reasonable priced hence the evo turbo $400 but am i better off ringing one of you guys in auise and seeing what deal can be done?

Cheers for the assistance as stated at front of post after at least 150rwkw if i can get it with minimal lag.

[UGOTNUFN]

in my opinion any of the td05 range will be better than a 2871. Its a bit of a mismatch for the td42.
I think if your after awesome bottom end either a 2860 or equivelant TD turbo (which will still get close to 150kw).
If your after more power from 2200rpm and later a GTX30/71 or equivelant TD turbo would be better (good for 200kw+)

Funny how you shifted from just "Garrett" on all your other posts on other forums to Mitsubishi knowledge on TD42's.

Lasy boost curves, they would appear that way to you comparing them to a loaded power run graph I guess

[Northside 4x4]

in my opinion any of the td05 range will be better than a 2871. Its a bit of a mismatch for the td42.
I think if your after awesome bottom end either a 2860 or equivelant TD turbo (which will still get close to 150kw).
If your after more power from 2200rpm and later a GTX30/71 or equivelant TD turbo would be better (good for 200kw+)

Funny how you shifted from just "Garrett" on all your other posts on other forums to Mitsubishi knowledge on TD42's.

Lasy boost curves, they would appear that way to you comparing them to a loaded power run graph I guess

[Northside 4x4]

Hey guys thanks for all the advice its quite difficult getting any decent feedback on turbos for td42 in NZ everybody has their opinion however very few it seems have ever tried what they recommend as i have found out with previous turbos that have tried on their recommendation.

I still stuck in the middle with regard turbo selection was aiming for something reasonable priced hence the evo turbo $400 but am i better off ringing one of you guys in auise and seeing what deal can be done?

Cheers for the assistance as stated at front of post after at least 150rwkw if i can get it with minimal lag.

Basically if your chasing 150rwkw and the least amount of lag a 28/60 will be the best choice.

If your chasing 150+rwkw and dont mind having spoolup at 2200rpm then a GTX30/71 will be your best choice.

If you wanted to use a Mitsuibishi turbo over the garrett a TD05/16G would be around the same size as the 2860 but with slower spoolup due to the nature of the bush bearings as opposed to ballbearing cage and also having slightly larger wheels in it.

A TD0520G would be the nearest equivelant for the GTX30, but again due to being bush bearing, and lacking the nice light billet compressor wheel would loose out on bottom end torque as a result.

If you want I can also supply you with options on Turbonetics, Holset, IHI or BorgWarner turbo's. Each have their own ups and downs.

Of all the options I have put there for you probably the most, tried, tested, proven and widely used setup of all of them is the plain jane Garrett 2860.

[UGOTNUFN]

Hey guys thanks for all the advice its quite difficult getting any decent feedback on turbos for td42 in NZ everybody has their opinion however very few it seems have ever tried what they recommend as i have found out with previous turbos that have tried on their recommendation.

I still stuck in the middle with regard turbo selection was aiming for something reasonable priced hence the evo turbo $400 but am i better off ringing one of you guys in auise and seeing what deal can be done?

Cheers for the assistance as stated at front of post after at least 150rwkw if i can get it with minimal lag.

Basically if your chasing 150rwkw and the least amount of lag a 28/60 will be the best choice.

If your chasing 150+rwkw and dont mind having spoolup at 2200rpm then a GTX30/71 will be your best choice.

If you wanted to use a Mitsuibishi turbo over the garrett a TD05/16G would be around the same size as the 2860 but with slower spoolup due to the nature of the bush bearings as opposed to ballbearing cage and also having slightly larger wheels in it.

A TD0520G would be the nearest equivelant for the GTX30, but again due to being bush bearing, and lacking the nice light billet compressor wheel would loose out on bottom end torque as a result.

If you want I can also supply you with options on Turbonetics, Holset, IHI or BorgWarner turbo's. Each have their own ups and downs.

Of all the options I have put there for you probably the most, tried, tested, proven and widely used setup of all of them is the plain jane Garrett 2860.

What spec 16G are you suggesting is around the same size as a 2860.

[Northside 4x4]

The one that I get off our supplier of TD turbo's.

[UGOTNUFN]

The one that I get off our supplier of TD turbo's.

Yeah thats the right one, i think i use the same supplier

[CustomTurbos]

OK, below you will see one of UGOTNUFN's TD05H vs my cousins GT2860RS 0.64 A/R exh housing.

Specs were as follows:

GT2860RS 0.64/A/R - SOLID LINES
* 115cc max fuel
* 90cc fuel off boost (smokey as all hell down below 1800rpm)
* top mount water to air intercooler

TD05-16G from UGOTNUFN - DOTTED LINES
* 120cc max fuel
* 60cc off boost fuel (nothing like the smoke of the 90cc....)
* front mount ebay intercooler

The top mount intercooler and the heaps of over fuelling give the turbo response on the GT2860RS a huge advatghe (especially the overfuelling).

Red = corrected flywheel torque
Green = power in kW @ wheels
Blue = corrected power @ flywheel

I should note that far and away this is the best GT2860RS result I have EVER seen which shows how good the TD05H-16G with custom mods is.

[Northside 4x4]

Thats why you dont use an off the shelf 2860, it has the wrong size rear housing on it.
+ using adaptor plates is an annoyance at best.

The maths behind it just doesnt add up to me though.. the td has larger wheels and bush bearing core.
So is it the wheels that get changed when modified or just the housing/s?

Also, where are the afr graphs?

[UGOTNUFN]

Thats why you dont use an off the shelf 2860, it has the wrong size rear housing on it.
+ using adaptor plates is an annoyance at best.

The maths behind it just doesnt add up to me though.. the td has larger wheels and bush bearing core.
So is it the wheels that get changed when modified or just the housing/s?

Also, where are the afr graphs?

Thats what makes it even better, work it out for yaself..........

[Northside 4x4]

Thats why you dont use an off the shelf 2860, it has the wrong size rear housing on it.
+ using adaptor plates is an annoyance at best.

The maths behind it just doesnt add up to me though.. the td has larger wheels and bush bearing core.
So is it the wheels that get changed when modified or just the housing/s?

Also, where are the afr graphs?

Thats what makes it even better, work it out for yaself..........

Because you cant answer the question. thats what I worked out after your comment.

Dodging the afr request yet again?

[UGOTNUFN]

Thats why you dont use an off the shelf 2860, it has the wrong size rear housing on it.
+ using adaptor plates is an annoyance at best.

The maths behind it just doesnt add up to me though.. the td has larger wheels and bush bearing core.
So is it the wheels that get changed when modified or just the housing/s?

Also, where are the afr graphs?

Thats what makes it even better, work it out for yaself..........

Because you cant answer the question. thats what I worked out after your comment.

Dodging the afr request yet again?

Sorry man you not the right person to share information with....

Didnt actually do any AFR graphs on that vehicle but i will be sure to next one we do.

[Northside 4x4]

lol is the question to hard to answer? Do you change the wheel's and or housings. Im not asking for specifics like sizes, so your giving away nothing.
Aside from that there is not a chance that I will build turbo kits using TD turbo's for a patrol. I stick with the proven results I have had for the past 8+ Years as you do.

How do you even tune a diesel without having AFR infront of you?

[UGOTNUFN]

lol is the question to hard to answer? Do you change the wheel's and or housings. Im not asking for specifics like sizes, so your giving away nothing.
Aside from that there is not a chance that I will build turbo kits using TD turbo's for a patrol. I stick with the proven results I have had for the past 8+ Years as you do.

How do you even tune a diesel without having AFR infront of you?

Well quit fukn asking then............

Tune by pyros and boost response, dont need a machine to tell me what works man. Anybody thats been doing it long enough will know.

We run our tests over sustained load periods,different load conditions not 23 sec power runs,so we test them beyond the relms of normal .

Ring some fuel shops, ask them what they put in there pumps mate, know what !!!! they'll tell you to fuck off and thats what im doing.

Now get back to work your boss may be looking for you.

[Northside 4x4]

lol is the question to hard to answer? Do you change the wheel's and or housings. Im not asking for specifics like sizes, so your giving away nothing.
Aside from that there is not a chance that I will build turbo kits using TD turbo's for a patrol. I stick with the proven results I have had for the past 8+ Years as you do.

How do you even tune a diesel without having AFR infront of you?

Well quit fukn asking then............

Tune by pyros and boost response, dont need a machine to tell me what works man. Anybody thats been doing it long enough will know.

We run our tests over sustained load periods,different load conditions not 23 sec power runs,so we test them beyond the relms of normal .

Ring some fuel shops, ask them what they put in there pumps mate, know what !!!! they'll tell you to . off and thats what im doing.

Now get back to work your boss may be looking for you.

Terranonut - Results below with a gtx30 frout mount cooler, custom intake manifold and upgraded 12mm pump.
Thats the kind of power curve you get out of a 30 series, about 400rpm slower spoolup than the 2860 series, but much meatier top end.

[UGOTNUFN]

lol is the question to hard to answer? Do you change the wheel's and or housings. Im not asking for specifics like sizes, so your giving away nothing.
Aside from that there is not a chance that I will build turbo kits using TD turbo's for a patrol. I stick with the proven results I have had for the past 8+ Years as you do.

How do you even tune a diesel without having AFR infront of you?

Well quit fukn asking then............

Tune by pyros and boost response, dont need a machine to tell me what works man. Anybody thats been doing it long enough will know.

We run our tests over sustained load periods,different load conditions not 23 sec power runs,so we test them beyond the relms of normal .

Ring some fuel shops, ask them what they put in there pumps mate, know what !!!! they'll tell you to . off and thats what im doing.

Now get back to work your boss may be looking for you.

I might go out and measure up the one of the UF TD05's laying in the workshop then.
Just at a quick glance, machined out inlet and outlet on the compressor and slightly opened up the squish between compressor and cover.

Same as MTQ does actually, they dont do the mods for you by any chance do they?

Terranonut - Results below with a gtx30 frout mount cooler, custom intake manifold and upgraded 12mm pump.
Thats the kind of power curve you get out of a 30 series, about 400rpm slower spoolup than the 2860 series, but much meatier top end.

Not sure if 120cc of fuel is the right spec for this combo.

Terranonut

Qoute for turbo is in your PM box mate.

[CustomTurbos]

@ Northside GTX Post

That is flywheel corrected power, not at the wheels, torque is in ftlb and is around 710nm peak @ crank. I think it is important to state that. It's nice power for sure. But, AFR's are quite low at top end (I believe ~16?), so EGT's will be on the high side during extended rus.

The dyno used is also a loaded run on retarder, which spools the turbo earlier and gives meaty low end data - all corrct mind you, but important to mention compared to a dyno result from UGOTNUFN with load response which loads vehicle to the square of the rpm. Hence acceleration at 1500rpm is 4 times that of 3000rpm and this results in proportionatly less load up in low end - the exact same area that turbos are lazy and need time to spool. This is why he does loaded power runs at fixed rpm to check.

The thread starter would not get the results you posted with the 120cc of fuel that he requested initially and a modified TD05 could get VERY close results to what you quoted from the GTX30 with better spool.

UF do their own turbos, they have been doing turbos (all brands) for years and have experienced people that have observed many different mods that OEM's use of difefrent models, tried a few things, done back to back dynos and found what works on the TD42. If only it was as easy as a flutd inlet and outlet. When I build my own turbos, I select a different spec wheel and close up the tolerances.... going the other way cant be good for efficiency or surge. I've never done it so may be wrong, but the approach you suggest would seem to me trying to make something do what it was never designed for by fitting in some dodgy machining.

As for ball bearings and things not adding up that you posted earlier; the thing is the numbers really do add up. UGOTNUFN can contact me with injector pump specs and turbo specs and intercooler details and I can get within a hares breath of the reality in both flywheel and at wheels power when dynoed almost every time.

Regarding the ball bearings and spool, this can be a bit of an issue in petrols but its benefit is so small in an older school diesel that in my opinion based on experience, theory and logic, it isnt a deal breaker by any means when selecting a turbo. You are better off paying attention to rotating mass and turbine sizing and turbine trim. If there was really that much drag from bushed turbos, you would need monumental increases in drive energy and the cars would have so much back pressure in relation to boost that the power would be terrible - the fact is the power is just fine.

There are two main benefits I see and that is mostly for the pertrol engine - an engine that has low off throttle exhaust flow (because it has a throttled intake air) and lower exhaust emmisions because of the low amount of oil in the cartridge meaning lower propensity to seep oil into exhaust. The lower friction of BB has such small impact on a diesel of the size of a TD42 that it ceases to reflect in performance significantly if at all.

My cousins TD42 with the 2860 was a really great truck to drive, everything was setup perfectly (its just the way he does things) and it fairly hammered. But down low response was a real issue and surge was a real issue (turbo did die) when trying to get any sort of low end response by fueling it up. Since he raced he had no care for smoke. It cleaned up past 1800 (or so, maybe closer to 2k) but in many cases that rpm was too high for what he wanted.

However the TD05 that UGOTNUFN has referred to (and I posted the results because they were exactly to the pump values of 120cc quoted) is a better option; it spooled just as quick but can be pushed into much higher pressure ratios in low end - I dont think it would surge at 22psi @ 1700 and it would get there without too bad AFR's - probably 15-16 or so. There is no question at all that the vehicle with the TD05 is significantly quicker than that with the 2860.