TD42 show me yur intake manifold.

[big lux]

I want to make up a custom inlet manifold for my td42 GU, i know there are a few people around who have done this would be great to see some pics for some ideas. I am running a front mount cooler, not a water to air so round the front piping is the go but any pics would be great.

[patrol 6.6]

have a look at are.com they have two modified ones

[Northside 4x4]

Already posted these up on patrol forum, not sure if you'r the same person making another thread though?

[MikeH]

yours for $400.
it ant the prettyest but it works. the pipe is 3 inch.
made out of 3mm ali plate, We were running a whisker under 30 psi thru it. no signs of cracking or inflating.
selling it because I've gone to a 6 core laminova.

[big lux]

Already posted these up on patrol forum, not sure if you'r the same person making another thread though?

NO but if you have a link it would be good?

yours for $400.
it ant the prettyest but it works. the pipe is 3 inch.
made out of 3mm ali plate, We were running a whisker under 30 psi thru it. no signs of cracking or inflating.
selling it because I've gone to a 6 core laminova.

Cheers but will not suit my application though. good pics keep them coming.

[Northside 4x4]

No link sorry mate Its a one off, just giving you idea's on what can be done...

The one Mike showed you will do well in excess of 150kw easily.

Our run of the mill intake manifold has been proven at over 270rwhp already and is made as a bolt on option. Its not extravagant or the best money can buy, but it show's by the time you upgrade to something like Mike has (All you need to do is weld the intake on the other side. Easy done.) you have gone 95% of the way to perfection on the intake side.

[marty]

I'll post the link to the other thread.
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... old-70591/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than one company makes them if you want to buy one.
Alot of good info in the thread aswell as photos of what people have done themselves.

[big lux]

I'll post the link to the other thread.
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... old-70591/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than one company makes them if you want to buy one.
Alot of good info in the thread aswell as photos of what people have done themselves.

Thankyou marty

150KW not enough 270hp getting a little closer to the mark, Id like everything to be there in support of the golden 300HP mark even if im not there to start with i dun wna have to change things later in life.

[marty]

Good on you northside with 268hp.
I made 261hp at 3080 rpm or there abouts with the stock intake manifold.
And guess what its not my day job.
na na na na na.

Changing intakes is not about the HP numbers now is it.
It is about even flow to each cylinder.

[Northside 4x4]

Good on you northside with 268hp.
I made 261hp at 3080 rpm or there abouts with the stock intake manifold.
And guess what its not my day job.
na na na na na.

Changing intakes is not about the HP numbers now is it.
It is about even flow to each cylinder.

Its about getting your engine to survive at a high power figure. Put a temp probe in cylinder 3 and cylinder 6, see the difference between them with the stock manifold.

**Not actual figures, just a display so you can see what Im talking about** Cylinders 1-6 (900-700-650-650-700-900) - Averages out to 750deg at the turbine inlet which you would consider a safe maximum for short periods. Sure isnt safe though, just appears this way to most people that read the average temp be it pre or post turbo.

[UGOTNUFN]

Few small things to remember here, if you are maintaining manifold pressure with an efficient turbo the heat spread spoken about will be significantly less.

What you must remember is that boost is actually a measurement of pressure in the "manifold" and engine system , so in effect the boost is waiting behind the valve for when it opens. Most people tend to measure boost at the easiest point which really only tells you whats in the piping. Its best measured as close as possible to the valve , which in most cases is at the front or rear of the manifold. As with measuring boost here its also the best place to take a signal line to the pump as it gives a more true reading especially at low rpm for the ultimate tuning of the BC.

A modified manifold is a good idea and yes i do make and fit them ,but to suggest the spread of temps that has been mentioned is a little far fetched.

MAtt

[big lux]

I do like the look of the 1st manifold shown by northside. anyone else think this will work well? is there anything internal in there or is it just that shape thrown ontop of a chopped up manifold? Any more details on how that vehicle went?

[Northside 4x4]

Those numbers are not actual figures, but are just shown to allow the difference to be seen and show the problem with just taking an overall reading on a engine with highly unbalanced airflow. The difference will obviously vary depending on the setup.

There is a divider in that manifold from memory. Car went about 280hp at the rears.

[RED60]

Few small things to remember here, if you are maintaining manifold pressure with an efficient turbo the heat spread spoken about will be significantly less.

What you must remember is that boost is actually a measurement of pressure in the "manifold" and engine system , so in effect the boost is waiting behind the valve for when it opens. Most people tend to measure boost at the easiest point which really only tells you whats in the piping. Its best measured as close as possible to the valve , which in most cases is at the front or rear of the manifold. As with measuring boost here its also the best place to take a signal line to the pump as it gives a more true reading especially at low rpm for the ultimate tuning of the BC.

A modified manifold is a good idea and yes i do make and fit them ,but to suggest the spread of temps that has been mentioned is a little far fetched.

MAtt

Are there any significant differences between "generic" manifold pressure and the pressure close to the valve... have you/anyone done any experimenting along these lines.... if so, what were the actual figures.

Also would/do individual pyros mounted in the exhausts (either in or at the exhaust port) give any useful information of what's going on in the combustion chamber.....or even the intake runners

[Northside 4x4]

Individual pyro's sure do give you usefull info when tuning an engine.
Just about Every highly strung petrol race engine uses individual egt in the tuning process to get the fuelling 100% correct on each cylinder because the engine is being run to within 1% of its life.

Cant really do this on a diesel unless its common rail and you have access to the factory ecu to adjust each injector's pulsewidth depending on egt.

The best you can hope for when reading individual egt is to get the airflow balanced across all cylinders. So intake manifold and intake port tuning is what you do for this in a non CR diesel.

Once you get the intake side sorted even with a basic plenum you will probably never run into big egt differences anyway.

[sswaffie]

Fuel spread can also cause temps to vary between cylinders , whether its pump or injectors flowing different amounts .

My TD42 wagon runs with about 30 degrees spread across all cyl's

[Northside 4x4]

Fuel spread can also cause temps to vary between cylinders , whether its pump or injectors flowing different amounts .

My TD42 wagon runs with about 30 degrees spread across all cyl's

What do you think the spread would be in a 250+hp td42 with standard manifold?

[RED60]

Fuel spread can also cause temps to vary between cylinders , whether its pump or injectors flowing different amounts .

My TD42 wagon runs with about 30 degrees spread across all cyl's

Just to clarify.... between the hottest and coldest cylinder there is a 30 degree difference in the exhaust temps...

Have you tried chasing it or is it really not worth the effort in this particular case....

[sswaffie]

As for the 30 temp spread , not worried at all as this is a really good figure and actually could be caused by restriction in exhaust manifold , eg pressure drop causes energy loss (temp increase) it is very interesting to see what temp you have at each cyl and then at pre turbo on the std exhaust manifold .

to your reply NS , i havn't logged any data with the std intake manifold and to be honest i would like to as i believe once pressure is achieved with the turbo i would be supprised if there would be much temp difference at all as you are changing density ratio above atmospheric pressure and flow dos'nt apply as much in the boosted state as what it does to in off boost state EG natural aspirated , like i said i havnt logged raw data so im only going off what i believe whether its rite or wrong but you cant argue with Data especially if it has been logged !
All im saying is FUEL SPREAD can be a massive variable in exhaust temps as horsepower is derived from BSFC and AFR and nothing else

until someone actually flowes the std injector lines and injectors to see if there is fuel spread across the cyl's its hard to debate as there are more variables than just air flow

to give you a example ZD30 nissan injectors are set by flow not pressure , meaning you can only buy a complete unit rather than nozzle replacement . Fuel flow is detremental to individual exhaust temps aswell !

My two cents worth guys

Regards
Swaffie

[MikeH]

I didnt even try with the standard manifold.
I took the elbow off,
looked at the 60-odd mm diameter hole in it,
Looked at the 75mm hole in the end of the intercooler,
ran a string around the log and a runner to compare the circumference to get some idea of its cross section.
then immediately removed the manifold from the engine and milled the top off it.

I don't see anyone running anything smaller than 2.5 inch intercooler piping so why are you even considering leaving the 60mm restrictor in there. It had to go. You wouldnt leave a 2.5 inch muffler in your 3 inch exhaust would you?

As to fuel spread... I have seen some test results from a v6 petrol years ago where they somehow measured POWER spread between cylinders on a recently reconditioned engine because it seemed to have a lazy cylinder. I got the impression it was a relatively quick and easy test to do. I wonder if this equipment can be adapted to a diesel application. It would certainly reduce some of the stress on the bottom end if the power per cylinder could be fine tuned in a highly strung engine.

[big lux]

Ok i have got myself a spare manifold, to chop up play ect, im going to make a a bit of angle to bolt it to to hold it inplace. In the link to patrol 4x4 old mave talks about how bad the 2 kinks in the lower half of the manifold are for flow.
Has any1 tried cutting the lower part of the runner out and replacing it with a nice radius rather then the 2 kinks to improve flow?

[Northside 4x4]

I didnt even try with the standard manifold.
I took the elbow off,
looked at the 60-odd mm diameter hole in it,
Looked at the 75mm hole in the end of the intercooler,
ran a string around the log and a runner to compare the circumference to get some idea of its cross section.
then immediately removed the manifold from the engine and milled the top off it.

I don't see anyone running anything smaller than 2.5 inch intercooler piping so why are you even considering leaving the 60mm restrictor in there. It had to go. You wouldnt leave a 2.5 inch muffler in your 3 inch exhaust would you?

As to fuel spread... I have seen some test results from a v6 petrol years ago where they somehow measured POWER spread between cylinders on a recently reconditioned engine because it seemed to have a lazy cylinder. I got the impression it was a relatively quick and easy test to do. I wonder if this equipment can be adapted to a diesel application. It would certainly reduce some of the stress on the bottom end if the power per cylinder could be fine tuned in a highly strung engine.

Disconnet each injector one by one on the dyno for individual power reading on the dyno. Ie, if you disconnect #1 and the power drops 20kw, then that cylinder is making 20kw.
I use it pretty extensively on high performance cars to see how balanced the engine power is and also for fault finding.

You can crack an injector line on a diesel, but it would be bloody messy.

Only downside to this is an unbalanced engine on power which isnt good for the bearings. Generally only want to do this test at around 50% of maximum torque.

[5inchgq]

I use it pretty extensively on high performance cars to see how balanced the engine power is and also for fault finding.



Only downside to this is an unbalanced engine on power which isnt good for the bearings. Generally only want to do this test at around 50% of maximum torque.

Seriously ??? If you had a car that was making a 1000ft-lbs on the dyno you'd still do this ?????
I'm far from an expert but it sounds a little like 'dirt track dyno' work right there......

[Jimbo]

^^^ He did say that he does it at or under 50% of max torque......might only be at 2000rpm.

[5inchgq]

^^^ He did say that he does it at or under 50% of max torque......might only be at 2000rpm.

Yeah I got that bit mate but that statement just sounded dodgey to me.
There is only one guy I trust to build or work on my diesel for stuff I can't do and he has already posted in this thread.

[MikeH]

since we're talking about inlet manifold flow, and from there onto EGT balance and tuning it to with an inch-pound of its life.
The power balance test would have to be performed at full noise.
The test is not much point to looking for weird flow conditions at half power because it wont be bothering the engine.
It's about the engine surviving extreme conditions by ensuring the power per cylinder is as even as possible so the safety margin can be reduced knowing one cylinder wont be running hot.
I think I know how it might be measured. A test would be a few months away though and would require very sensitive gear. The signal I'd be looking for may be completely masked by noise.

[big lux]

While talking about individual cylinder temps, i have a long runner/individual runner manifold on my rig. So to check seprate cylinder temps could you not just run it up and check the temp with an IR gun across the different pipes, or if you wanted to get carried away get 6 multimeters with the temp probe and tie one to each runner.

My exhaust manifold

[sswaffie]

Our temps were done with Motec sdl3 , e888 expander and exposed tip thermo couples ( quick to respond )
I can run 9 thermocouples all up plus all the other sensors . It is handy as I can log about 7 hrs of data , (16mb of logging)

Regards
Swaff

[big lux]

Our temps were done with Motec sdl3 , e888 expander and exposed tip thermo couples ( quick to respond )
I can run 9 thermocouples all up plus all the other sensors . It is handy as I can log about 7 hrs of data , (16mb of logging)

Regards
Swaff

Fek me now that sounds more like it next thing yull have a commen rail TD42 swaffie.

[digsy]

Our temps were done with Motec sdl3 , e888 expander and exposed tip thermo couples ( quick to respond )
I can run 9 thermocouples all up plus all the other sensors . It is handy as I can log about 7 hrs of data , (16mb of logging)

Regards
Swaff

Fek me now that sounds more like it next thing yull have a commen rail TD42 swaffie.

Now thats funny right there...