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Daddylonglegs 6X6
Moderator: Micka
Daddylonglegs 6X6
This is the only photo I can find of Bill's 6X6. does anyone know of any others? I recall seeing the 4x4 australia article, and seeing the car up close at the LROC field day in the early to mid eighties.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
I have got a faded copy of the 4x4 Australia March 1986 edition. I know absolutely nothing about photography but I dont think these would scan that well. Maybe 4x4 magazine have archives ? I dont know what happened to the blown up photos, but apprentice Tim Gamblin originally downloaded them off the net.
Bill.
Bill.
It might be possible to take digital photos of them. In good strong natural light, printed pages tend to photograph much better than scan, as the resolution of the print interferes with the resolution of the scan, resulting in an effect known ( I think) as moya (sp?) pattern. Once photographed the fading can be elimininated on computer.
How long did you run the 6x6 for? The photo I posted is from the 1982 CCJC Bog 'ole event, so if it was photographed in 1986, thet's a fair while.
PS Thanks for your time on Saturday - things are looking good, except for the scrub radius.
How long did you run the 6x6 for? The photo I posted is from the 1982 CCJC Bog 'ole event, so if it was photographed in 1986, thet's a fair while.
PS Thanks for your time on Saturday - things are looking good, except for the scrub radius.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Hi Steve , I ran the vehicl as a daily driver until 1988 until i bought the 45 acre block of land in Dixons Creek. I let the rego lapse and used it around the property for another year or so until I thought I would build another one using Salisbury /Dana diffs all round, but due to a lack of money that project died at about 75% completion. With me, components from old projects tend to feed later ones, so the Warner T98 gearbox and Salisbury axles and many custom made axles shafts etc were used until recently on my current series 2 SWB.
PS, you should be able to overcome scrub radius by having negative offset wheel rims, and check the other thread on Total custom rover for solution to swivel housing strength.
Bill.
PS, you should be able to overcome scrub radius by having negative offset wheel rims, and check the other thread on Total custom rover for solution to swivel housing strength.
Bill.
Hi Ben. My brother in law is currently scanning some photos he took 20 odd years ago and he will see what he can do with the 4x4 magazine photos. Both rear axles were turned around so that the pinions faced the rear of the vehicle. on to each pinion housing I bolted a drop box that I fabricated and fitted with modified transfercase gears( helical ones this time} The drive came from the normal series 2 tranfercase, over the middle axle to the first drop box, then via another propshaft ver the rear axle to the rear dro box. If you have ever seen the old Australian Army
Mk5 6x6 Internationals, you will have an idea what I mean. The reason I turned the diffs backwards was so that I could have a very short wheelbase , but with relatively long propshafts that allowed the 1 metre of wheel travel. The downside of reversing the diffs was that the ring and pinions were only 70% as strong, which on the old 4.7 ratios was critical.
These days with the availability of reverse cut ring and pinions the vehicle would have been much more practical.
Rear axle travel on a 6x6 is much more important than on a 4x4 because as is the case with Pinzgauer 6x6's, the limited articulation means when the middle axle reaches the crest of a very steep hill or bank, the rear axle comes off the ground and becomes a counterweight which lifts the vehicles front axle off the ground, so you end up with only 2 wheel drive.
The other problem with light 6x6's is that under certain conditions you have too many wheels on the ground and too much floatation or in other words not enough ground pressure. I experimented with a pneumatic double acting ram to alternatively lift the middle axle off the ground or push it harder down. This idea worked extremely well.
Bill.
Mk5 6x6 Internationals, you will have an idea what I mean. The reason I turned the diffs backwards was so that I could have a very short wheelbase , but with relatively long propshafts that allowed the 1 metre of wheel travel. The downside of reversing the diffs was that the ring and pinions were only 70% as strong, which on the old 4.7 ratios was critical.
These days with the availability of reverse cut ring and pinions the vehicle would have been much more practical.
Rear axle travel on a 6x6 is much more important than on a 4x4 because as is the case with Pinzgauer 6x6's, the limited articulation means when the middle axle reaches the crest of a very steep hill or bank, the rear axle comes off the ground and becomes a counterweight which lifts the vehicles front axle off the ground, so you end up with only 2 wheel drive.
The other problem with light 6x6's is that under certain conditions you have too many wheels on the ground and too much floatation or in other words not enough ground pressure. I experimented with a pneumatic double acting ram to alternatively lift the middle axle off the ground or push it harder down. This idea worked extremely well.
Bill.
" Respect, man......!"
(Now I know who I'm exchanging posts with....!!)
Years & years ago (round 1986..?) I got a copy of the 'Brooklands' Series 2 '58-'71......which carries a feature & some b&w pics of this truck by a Bob Maron.
It does'nt detail how the axle drive was done ....but now we know..!!
Awesome!
Interesting you should mention the pinzgauer. we had one out on a trip with us on a trip around toolango/murrindindi, and it did great until we got it onto Killerhill, which is where my signiature shot is taken. At this point, it sat on the rear bogie, basically threw the front wheels inthe air and simultaineously ranout of puff and got really scary. I have some photo's somewhere, they are quite spectacular.
I really like the idea of lifitng the middle axle to create a nice long wb 4X4 with high ground pressure for some situations.
Any idea what yours weighed?
A coupl eof years ago a saw a series LR set up as a 6X6. this has a drive through ford 9" I think as the centre axle. very interesting piece of engineering, and looked likke it may have been built by someone who saw your car.
Had a conventional bogie though if I recall, so limited travel.
I really like the idea of lifitng the middle axle to create a nice long wb 4X4 with high ground pressure for some situations.
Any idea what yours weighed?
A coupl eof years ago a saw a series LR set up as a 6X6. this has a drive through ford 9" I think as the centre axle. very interesting piece of engineering, and looked likke it may have been built by someone who saw your car.
Had a conventional bogie though if I recall, so limited travel.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
AWESOME! 
Bill has my respect...to bad you don't live next door to me, I would convince you to do that with some of my junk!
Curious Bill, what do you think of the Volvo C-series 6x6??
check the hair bear poking his head under the rear of the truck! Old school!
I await more pictures....and it obvious who is the Rover guru now even though I knew already.
Bill has my respect...to bad you don't live next door to me, I would convince you to do that with some of my junk!
Curious Bill, what do you think of the Volvo C-series 6x6??
check the hair bear poking his head under the rear of the truck! Old school!
I await more pictures....and it obvious who is the Rover guru now even though I knew already.
www.rmp-o.com
Thanks for the copliments RMP &O. We didn't get many Volvo C series here in Australia. A handfull of 4x4's, but no 6x6's that I know about, but from what I have read about them they have the potential to be built into a highly capable cross country rig. It would be nice to get enough 6x6 middle diffs to build a close coupled 8x8 with all axles interconnected.and alot more gearing.
Interesting looking website. i will spend some time on it this evening.
Regards Bill.
Interesting looking website. i will spend some time on it this evening.
Regards Bill.
hey Bill no worries...
my jaw just hit the floor when I saw your old 6x6 Rover. Very cool truck! Even though I am a Nissan man I have always loved L/R and nearly bought an old Series over the years at least a few times. Plus owning a 6x6 myself makes me that much more interested in your old truck. And it is plain great to have guys like yourself on forums such as this....cheers!
Would really like to see pics of the drive train under that custom built 6x6.
I crawled around under a Volvo 6x6 few months back and took some pictures. If you guys like I can post them...if I can find them on my pc! I am sure you all know that the C-series portals nearly bolt right up under Rovers. My interest in them came when I found out they are passenger side drop and leaf sprung. They will go under an old G60 Patrol fairly easy too.
my jaw just hit the floor when I saw your old 6x6 Rover. Very cool truck! Even though I am a Nissan man I have always loved L/R and nearly bought an old Series over the years at least a few times. Plus owning a 6x6 myself makes me that much more interested in your old truck. And it is plain great to have guys like yourself on forums such as this....cheers!
Would really like to see pics of the drive train under that custom built 6x6.
I crawled around under a Volvo 6x6 few months back and took some pictures. If you guys like I can post them...if I can find them on my pc! I am sure you all know that the C-series portals nearly bolt right up under Rovers. My interest in them came when I found out they are passenger side drop and leaf sprung. They will go under an old G60 Patrol fairly easy too.
www.rmp-o.com
....Hi Bill..
Have you ever seen pics of the MWG Esarco...??
You'd have loved it.....!!
(They did that by using two 110's worth of transmissions....two transfer boxes, driving two axles each (1&3/2&4), middle two axles rigid, rear & front steering & coils on all four, a Perkins 110T to drive it all & a forward control positioned Landrover 110 crew cab with 4 doors & loadtray back.
Bit like the Laird Centaur....noone knew what to do with it.....just too capable (& expensive..!) for its own good....!!
This may not post.. Hah..!! It only just got put up today..!!
http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/SS/Esarco.html
http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/SS/Esarco.html
Thanks again RMP&O and Nick. I have often wondered what happened to the Esarco. I am glad that somebody has taken up the concept too.
The PTO dog teeth on the LT230 transfer case are very light. Ok for driving a winch etc, but I thought a bit light to actually drive a pair of axles in anger. I wonder if they had any failures in that area?
RMP&O, The old G60 Patrols were very popular over here in the 1970's, particularly in Queensland where they were cheaper than Toyotas and more powerful and durable than LandRovers. Their only real deficiency was the 3 speed gearbox, but a Warner T98 4 speed from International or Ford trucks was a very simple conversion. A friend of mine also cast a new aluminium Transfercase housing, and using G60 gears and shafts, made up a 3.2:1 low range gear set by recutting the straight cut gears.
Volvo axle housings can be flipped, the diffs bolted in upside down and the knuckles and portals swapped around to suit american left hand drop transfercases.All you have to do is redrill the difflock bellcrank pivot hole. the difflock dog clutch can be fitted to either side of the carrier too.
I have been told that photos of my old 6x6 are still in the pipeline, but I would appreciate seeing any Volvo pics too.
Slightly off topic, A family friend who runs a garage reconditioning M151 Jeeps in Hanoi Vietnam told me a few months ago that he may be able to locate some UAZ 469 portal axles for around 2 or 3 hundred dollars each. Remember my thread on the other forum inquiring about these? When I am back on my feet I may get a set just for the hell of it.
Bill.
The PTO dog teeth on the LT230 transfer case are very light. Ok for driving a winch etc, but I thought a bit light to actually drive a pair of axles in anger. I wonder if they had any failures in that area?
RMP&O, The old G60 Patrols were very popular over here in the 1970's, particularly in Queensland where they were cheaper than Toyotas and more powerful and durable than LandRovers. Their only real deficiency was the 3 speed gearbox, but a Warner T98 4 speed from International or Ford trucks was a very simple conversion. A friend of mine also cast a new aluminium Transfercase housing, and using G60 gears and shafts, made up a 3.2:1 low range gear set by recutting the straight cut gears.
Volvo axle housings can be flipped, the diffs bolted in upside down and the knuckles and portals swapped around to suit american left hand drop transfercases.All you have to do is redrill the difflock bellcrank pivot hole. the difflock dog clutch can be fitted to either side of the carrier too.
I have been told that photos of my old 6x6 are still in the pipeline, but I would appreciate seeing any Volvo pics too.
Slightly off topic, A family friend who runs a garage reconditioning M151 Jeeps in Hanoi Vietnam told me a few months ago that he may be able to locate some UAZ 469 portal axles for around 2 or 3 hundred dollars each. Remember my thread on the other forum inquiring about these? When I am back on my feet I may get a set just for the hell of it.
Bill.
I am also interested in the UAZ axles. I do recall your post on the subject Bill. Not many people replied but I know a little bit about the Gaz & Uaz. Seen lot's of them in S.America and some were pretty cool fitted with v8's and dana diffs. I myslef and fond of bith the Uaz and the Gaz.
How are getting parts for these trucks and these portal diffs? What side drop are they? Drum brakes I assume? How about ratios on the diff? Was this portal manufactured just for these Uaz trucks? Is it possible these portals were only fitted to say special forces outfitted Uaz's?? I looked after your post about it and can't find anything on these portals online.
Bill...you may find I know a bit to much about the older G60 Patrols! You are 100% right that the 3spd in them is junk. It is tuff but no fun to use and lacks a good low like the Rover. There are very few things I do not know about G60's but a guy like you can always inform/teach a guy like me new things! Such as this metion of a Warner T98 4spd. Did the spline on this tranny match the P engine and does it use the stock bellhousing/clutch? Is your friend still making this custom aluminum transfer case?? I am very interested in this also....and there is a lot of Patrolers in the USA who would be too. We only got these Nissans from 1961-1969 and have had none since so you have a bunch of owners starving for stuff including upgrades. I have heard people here say they will pay $4k usd for a Marks 4wd 5spd he used to make for the G60's but none are to be found.
I realize this is getting off topic about Nissans, Volvo's and Uaz's. But if nobody minds I will post pics of 6x6 Volvo drive train and also of a rally Uaz or two. There was an impressive Uaz in the 2002 RFC and it may have had portals. If you mind it can be done in a different forum or I can simply pm the pics to Bill.
How are getting parts for these trucks and these portal diffs? What side drop are they? Drum brakes I assume? How about ratios on the diff? Was this portal manufactured just for these Uaz trucks? Is it possible these portals were only fitted to say special forces outfitted Uaz's?? I looked after your post about it and can't find anything on these portals online.
RMP&O, The old G60 Patrols were very popular over here in the 1970's, particularly in Queensland where they were cheaper than Toyotas and more powerful and durable than LandRovers. Their only real deficiency was the 3 speed gearbox, but a Warner T98 4 speed from International or Ford trucks was a very simple conversion. A friend of mine also cast a new aluminium Transfercase housing, and using G60 gears and shafts, made up a 3.2:1 low range gear set by recutting the straight cut gears.
Bill...you may find I know a bit to much about the older G60 Patrols! You are 100% right that the 3spd in them is junk. It is tuff but no fun to use and lacks a good low like the Rover. There are very few things I do not know about G60's but a guy like you can always inform/teach a guy like me new things! Such as this metion of a Warner T98 4spd. Did the spline on this tranny match the P engine and does it use the stock bellhousing/clutch? Is your friend still making this custom aluminum transfer case?? I am very interested in this also....and there is a lot of Patrolers in the USA who would be too. We only got these Nissans from 1961-1969 and have had none since so you have a bunch of owners starving for stuff including upgrades. I have heard people here say they will pay $4k usd for a Marks 4wd 5spd he used to make for the G60's but none are to be found.
I realize this is getting off topic about Nissans, Volvo's and Uaz's. But if nobody minds I will post pics of 6x6 Volvo drive train and also of a rally Uaz or two. There was an impressive Uaz in the 2002 RFC and it may have had portals. If you mind it can be done in a different forum or I can simply pm the pics to Bill.
www.rmp-o.com
Yes Bill ,
Keep us posted on the portals could wel be the next toy.
once the divorce/seperation is finalised,
need something to kep me going if I.m not taken to the cleaners by her,
lol
regards
Michael.
Keep us posted on the portals could wel be the next toy.
once the divorce/seperation is finalised,
need something to kep me going if I.m not taken to the cleaners by her,
lol
regards
Michael.
Mitsubishi 2010 NT DID Pajero wagon, Factory rear diff lock, Dual batteries, ARB bar, winch, Mt ATZ 4 rib tyres.
1986 RR.
Custom suspension links etc.
HSV 215 engine.
4.3 diffs.
1986 RR.
Custom suspension links etc.
HSV 215 engine.
4.3 diffs.
I get the impression that most people who visit this Rover forum are interested in other vehicles too and I personally don't mind discussing things a little off topic. Just check the Ultimate LandRover thread for example. We have discussed many different ideas on that one.so yes please, to pics of the Volvo driveline and stuff.
I will send off an email to Vietnam to get some info on the UAZ portals. All I know at this time is that the axles are right hand offset at front, centred rear, and appear to be of the design that uses an internally toothed ring and spur gear, so the drop is not huge, maybe 3 inches or so.Yes, drum brakes too.
RMP&O the Warner T98 with 10 spline rear output will accept the Nissan Transfercase input gear without modification, and series LandRover input gear with minor modification.
The input shaft splines of some International and Ford T98's are Identical to the Nissan , so you retain the Nissan Bellhousing, fit a simple spacer block cum adaptor plate between bellhousing and gearbox.You need a half inch thick adaptor plate between the T98 and Nissan T/case. You also
should machine a new mainshaft nut with an integral bearing diameter on the back of it to fit into a new PTO cover plate machined from an aluminium or steel billet.
I will ask my friend on Friday about the recast transfercase. I remember years ago that I calculated I could have got about 2.8:1 with the existing Nissan cast iron T/case by remaking the straight cut low range gears.
Bill.
I will send off an email to Vietnam to get some info on the UAZ portals. All I know at this time is that the axles are right hand offset at front, centred rear, and appear to be of the design that uses an internally toothed ring and spur gear, so the drop is not huge, maybe 3 inches or so.Yes, drum brakes too.
RMP&O the Warner T98 with 10 spline rear output will accept the Nissan Transfercase input gear without modification, and series LandRover input gear with minor modification.
The input shaft splines of some International and Ford T98's are Identical to the Nissan , so you retain the Nissan Bellhousing, fit a simple spacer block cum adaptor plate between bellhousing and gearbox.You need a half inch thick adaptor plate between the T98 and Nissan T/case. You also
should machine a new mainshaft nut with an integral bearing diameter on the back of it to fit into a new PTO cover plate machined from an aluminium or steel billet.
I will ask my friend on Friday about the recast transfercase. I remember years ago that I calculated I could have got about 2.8:1 with the existing Nissan cast iron T/case by remaking the straight cut low range gears.
Bill.
Thankyou once again LandyMan.
The photo's are a direct scan from the March 1986 4x4 magazine article and are all the photo's I have although Nigel tells me he may have some different black and white ones.
photo 1 and 2 shows the pto worm driven belly wheels that prevent the vehicle from high centreing on logs and sharp peaks etc
photo 3 is not too clear but is meant to show the rear suspension which is an inverted ,centrally pivoted leaf spring with their end attached to the middle and rear axles. it is complicated to explain but the leaf spring pivots and axle radius rods are on a beam that itself is connected to the chassis via 4 longditudal radius rods and two vertical telescopic struts. this setup provides very large vertical wheel movements and interaxle articulation.
photo 4 shows the rear view of the rearmost axle differential drop box. their is a similar drop box on the middle axle differential which has a neutral position to disconnect drive to the middle axle for road work.
photos 5,6 and 7 are just magazine padding.
photo 8 is a veiw of the twin rear axles when looking from the front.Part of the transfercase handbrake drum is at the top of picture. the middle axle drop box is just visible, as are my old original difflock actuators, and one vertical, telescopic strut for the rear suspension bogie.
photo 9 and 10 more padding.
the last is a photo sequence of the vehicle climbing over a 1 metre diameter log.
Bill.
The photo's are a direct scan from the March 1986 4x4 magazine article and are all the photo's I have although Nigel tells me he may have some different black and white ones.
photo 1 and 2 shows the pto worm driven belly wheels that prevent the vehicle from high centreing on logs and sharp peaks etc
photo 3 is not too clear but is meant to show the rear suspension which is an inverted ,centrally pivoted leaf spring with their end attached to the middle and rear axles. it is complicated to explain but the leaf spring pivots and axle radius rods are on a beam that itself is connected to the chassis via 4 longditudal radius rods and two vertical telescopic struts. this setup provides very large vertical wheel movements and interaxle articulation.
photo 4 shows the rear view of the rearmost axle differential drop box. their is a similar drop box on the middle axle differential which has a neutral position to disconnect drive to the middle axle for road work.
photos 5,6 and 7 are just magazine padding.
photo 8 is a veiw of the twin rear axles when looking from the front.Part of the transfercase handbrake drum is at the top of picture. the middle axle drop box is just visible, as are my old original difflock actuators, and one vertical, telescopic strut for the rear suspension bogie.
photo 9 and 10 more padding.
the last is a photo sequence of the vehicle climbing over a 1 metre diameter log.
Bill.
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