question for Daddylonglegs(Bill)

[tony cordell]

Bil I wonder if you wouldn't mind answering a couple of questions?

Today Whilst out I snapped the short side CV the top was snapped clean off just inside the (Maxi Drive)drive member.
the broken pieces gouged the the hub the wheel side of the outer bearingon the inside edge,not where the drive member face goes
The bearing race was untouched as was the surface below once the race was tapped out of the hub,
Will it be ok to file the damage smooth again?
I'm thinking as this surface has no purpose, (the new outer bearing race will be tapped into position past the filed area into its undamaged place) it would be ok rather than replace the hub as well.
The stub axle end was damaged also and needs replacing this leads me to my second question
I was supplied with a bronze bush (44mm I/D 47mm O/D)to replace the needle roller in the standard (late narrow 300tdi) stub, I managed to retrieve this without causing any damage, will it be ok to fit to the new stub axle or will I need to order a new one from Mal. I was hoping this may be a L/R part used on other vehicles
Mal isn't open yet so I can call him from the UK

Many thanks in advance

[daddylonglegs]

That is an unusual place to break a genuine CVjoint Tony. Cheap aftermarket ones usually break at the shaft while genuine ones usually break at the bell. So long as the spindle nut threads are not destroyed it is quite OK to dress any nicks and burrs with a file and reuse, Spindles only ever break just outboard of the inner oil seal ring.
You can also reuse the bronze bush providing it is still a light interference fitin the spindle.
Bill.

[tony cordell]

Bill Thanks
Non genuine CV(britpart)
the spindle is wrecked unfotunatley it split across its narrowest point
the hub(brake disc mount) was also chewed up luckily all the damage was on the area out side the spacer/adjusting and lock nut when on the spindle
this I hope to dress with a file to as it does not carry a bearing race I hope that will be ok.
The bronze bush is a special made by Mal he has just told me I can get another if it doesn't fit the new spindle ok, just have to wait for the post from Aus...
I managed to retrieve it undamaged from the old spindle

with no UK supplier of Maxi drive parts, the next nearest is France
he supplied my original set but boy does he like to Charge $$$$

thanks for your reply again

[daddylonglegs]

I would assume that there would be a lot of 110's to 200tdi Defenders being dismantled in the UK Tony. These had the longer spindles, wider spaced hub bearings, and stronger CV joints. Couldn't you just retrofit all the earlier,stronger parts on to your front axle so that you won't have the oddball parts problem in the future ?
Bill.

[tony cordell]

Thanks Bill
yes loads of spares about
But having purchased the M/D kit to fit 110 CV's I'm sort of stuck with the set up.
the set up allows me to run 110CV's and up till Sunday all has been fine
I have purchased all the bits to refit it tomorrow.
there is a design change on the inner spindle housing though the seal has a metal insert in it
the old one didn't I'll have to try to find out which way round it fits
in the spindle before assembly as I removed the old one without taking note...
I think the metal collar n the seal faces the diff rather than the wheel
part number is:FTC5268

[tony cordell]

Well
after calling Mal Storey
I know know this extra metal piece is used to fit the seal then to be removed.
Big thanks to Mal as always

[ISUZUROVER]

Make sure you buy a genuine AEU2522 this time. Like Bill said, they are stronger and usually fail at the bell rather than snapping the stub off. If you can get longfielded AEU2522's you probably won't break them again.

[daddylonglegs]

I rather like the idea of Longfielded early Rangey CV's, and while they are in the annealed state poke a 24 spline broach through them and make a new 24 spline outer shaft from Hituff. Does anyone do these ?
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

AFAIK the CV's are not annealed very much when longfielded - I think Sam posted a similar comment on here - just heated up, the ring welded on, and then cooled down slowly - that is all. So the idea is that the CV is annealed slightly to reduce brittleness, but probably nowhere near enough for broaching.

Buying broached (longfielded) CV's would significantly add to the cost, and often when the star breaks the inner axle spline is mangled. The same might happen to the splines in the stub shaft if more catastrophic failures occur.

[tony cordell]

Make sure you buy a genuine AEU2522 this time. Like Bill said, they are stronger and usually fail at the bell rather than snapping the stub off. If you can get longfielded AEU2522's you probably won't break them again.

Ben I don't buy genuine AEU2522 as they are no stronger in fact Mal was telling me he had a customer break both inside a hour the case hardening was to much making them brittle.
Simon Buck of Devon4x4 (rain forest winner) a while ago advised me not to bother with the GKN ones for the above reason.

this is the first I have bust in approx 14months of the current set up.
the breakage occured rock climbing a 55 degree stone face I have done it previously but on Sunday the surface was wet
the damage was contained behind the M/D drive member but wrecked the stub axle/lock nut/adjusting nut/thrust washer and of course CV

If the Bell had gone I guess it may have damaged the short axle too which would have been far worse as I would have to wait to import a spare if the damage was severe

[daddylonglegs]

Ben,I was thinking that a Longfield bell would almost eliminate star breakage, but a broken outer shaft sometimes takes the spindle out as happened to Tony and once on Nigels hybrid. A better quality outer shaft with longer splines where it plugs in to the Rangey CV would greatly reduce the likelihood of that happening.and should the shaft break the longer splines would allow one half to slide further into the cv joint rather than the two broken halves fighting each other and splitting the spindle.
i am calling in to the heat treaters this morning for some portal stuff. I might drop a CV joint in and ask them to soften and reharden it, and if it does not shrink then I will make a pair. My current CV's are like this but I used Toyotas, cut the outer shaft off and in its place welded a 24 spline female sleeve.
Bill.

[rick130]

..and if it does not shrink then I will make a pair.

do you think it could Bill ?
and if it did, would it be much of a problem ?

When we used to machine the centre OD of Lobro CV's out to reduce weight, they used to shrink, so I would relieve the grooves with a flapper wheel on the die grinder. I'd also relieve the cages so the balls would easily drop through, as this was a common cause of cage breakages.

Rick.

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben I don't buy genuine AEU2522 as they are no stronger in fact Mal was telling me he had a customer break both inside a hour the case hardening was to much making them brittle.
Simon Buck of Devon4x4 (rain forest winner) a while ago advised me not to bother with the GKN ones for the above reason.

this is the first I have bust in approx 14months of the current set up.
the breakage occured rock climbing a 55 degree stone face I have done it previously but on Sunday the surface was wet
the damage was contained behind the M/D drive member but wrecked the stub axle/lock nut/adjusting nut/thrust washer and of course CV

If the Bell had gone I guess it may have damaged the short axle too which would have been far worse as I would have to wait to import a spare if the damage was severe

The experience in Australia and the US is that (as Bill said) the non genuine almost always break stub axles and the GKN ones break bells (in stock form). Sam's longfielded genuine 2522's hold up a lot better because the ring stops the bell from breaking and the slight annealing increases the fatigue life - ultimately making a stronger CV.

If the quote below (from pirate) is correct then maybe an allmakes CV with a ring welded on and a re-hardened stub (or Bill's separate stub) idea would be best. However the finish on the non genuine CV is A LOT poorer quality than the genuine, so I have a hard time believing they are as good or better.

The Finish is definitly a good part of it but the Allmakes are very soft... Mearly flame hardened.. The GKN's we have tested (thanks Tis) are blindingly hard clear through like 62 Rockwell C, Allmakes are closer to 45-47. That's the difference between Glass and Steel... The Elasicity (?) of the the softer CV will make it last longer under high shock loads but it will wear out sooner, the hardness of the GKN will make it last forever but shatter (like glass) when exposed to high shock loads.. The Trick will be to case harden the shafts of the softer Allmakes and see if the will live... Mike you ready?

[daddylonglegs]

A mate of mine had a Rangey cv softened, broached and rehardend a few years ago and it shrunk about 0.020'' but the heat treater he uses is famous for shrinking stuff. The company I use Bells Heat Treatment in Bayswater Melb does Hollingers racing stuff. Everything I have taken to them for annealing and subsequent rehardening has come back spot on, and they seemed to be confident about the CV Bell.
Rick, Your flapperwheel way of stress relieving sound interesting. Do you think that would work after welding the strengthening ring on the bell?
I have previously peened the welds with a hammer and ball ended punch until the CV articulates smoothly in all directions.
Bill.

[rick130]

Bloody hell, 20 thou !!??

Bill, I can't see why it wouldn't work. All I felt that I was doing was opening up the groove a touch. The stock Lobro VW CV was bloody tight before we'd machine them, and afterward the buggers wouldn't plunge at all, to the point that a car would hop across the track !

IIRC, it didn't take much in each groove to make all the difference. I had read that you needed 0.002" smaller balls, but when stuff like that isn't available out here, out came the die grinder.

Rick.

[ISUZUROVER]

But once a CV has been longfielded it cannot be dismantled can it??? And Rick aren't you talking about die-grinding the grooves for the balls? So this would have to be done before longfielding - but then you wouldn't know how much was needed.

[daddylonglegs]

Yes Ben you're correct, once the ring has been welded on to the bell the CV cannot be dismantled. I have found with peening that virtually all shrinkage or distortion caused by welding can be neutralised. When I welded bolt on flanges to my 101 swivel balls they went all wavey but by patiently peening the welds I managed to get them flat and true again.
Rick, the same mob that shrunk my mates CV also did a LT95 gearbox input shaft for me a couple of years back. The pilot bearing wouldn't fit back into it until I bored it out 0.010'' .
Bill.

[tony cordell]

Pics of damage:
HERE

[daddylonglegs]

I just picked up the Rangey CV Joint from Hills Heat Treatment today.
I asked them to soften and then reharden it to the same specs to find out if it would shrink. Well it did ever so slightly,maybe 0.0005" but I can just fit a cage into it and by working it with my hands it is beginning to free up, so i think I will go ahead and have a pair annealed and broached out to 24 spline and recase hardend.
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

Sounds good Bill, have you seen the new Longfield CV - a completely new hilux CV with 30 spline inner and outer, made from 4340 and 300m (star). If the reports are goos I will be buying some of these when I am in the US next year.

Pics are here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/show...t=272226&page=6

And some info about people putting these into landies here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288760


For people wanting to go really hardcore the hardening, broahing and resplining would be a good thing to do with longfielded 101 CV's or toyota 100 series CV's so you could run a 35 spline alloy outer stub. Now that would be some serious strength!!!

[daddylonglegs]

They do sound very promising Ben, but unfortunately they would not suit my portal hubs. I need and use Cv's with very short plug in 24 spline shafts. My current ones are modified Toyota but reworked Rangey ones would be so much easier.
Bill.