Is this just hype?
What do the Australians think of the T-max range?
Especially the new EWi 12000 Outback?
Thanks for the help...
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Winch Question
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Winch Question
I'm writing an article on winches/winching and I need some feed back on the T-max range of winches. These are fairly new in the UK and Europe but according to the T-max website they are the 'winch of the outback'.
Is this just hype?
What do the Australians think of the T-max range?
Especially the new EWi 12000 Outback?
Thanks for the help...
Is this just hype?
What do the Australians think of the T-max range?
Especially the new EWi 12000 Outback?
Thanks for the help...
So what do you reckon are the best winches? Warn? Ramsey? Superwinch, Goodwinch, Milemarker, OX, Come Up?
Has the T-max ever been sold in Australia?
The difference in terrain and vehicle prep from say, Europe, is huge so what do Australian off roaders use in the way of shocks, springs etc?
We here that so and so a make is the best because it's the Australian choice for ALL thier vehicles like OME or ARB, but what about Pro-Comp or King... or even Blue? What about Bilstiens and Edelbrocks.
Sorry to be so nosey but I am interested in the facts, mainly because of the b*llsh*t...
Has the T-max ever been sold in Australia?
The difference in terrain and vehicle prep from say, Europe, is huge so what do Australian off roaders use in the way of shocks, springs etc?
We here that so and so a make is the best because it's the Australian choice for ALL thier vehicles like OME or ARB, but what about Pro-Comp or King... or even Blue? What about Bilstiens and Edelbrocks.
Sorry to be so nosey but I am interested in the facts, mainly because of the b*llsh*t...
Warn is the most popular winch, T-max are not fitted to many cars AFAIK in comparison.
There is a local supplier having winches made in China and then modifying them to suit our conditions called Brawn.
So, no. T-Max is not the first choice.
Try performing a search on this site as winch choices have been discussed in detail before.
There is a local supplier having winches made in China and then modifying them to suit our conditions called Brawn.
So, no. T-Max is not the first choice.
Try performing a search on this site as winch choices have been discussed in detail before.
I read thru' all the 'search stuff' last night. Most of it is the usual forum/pub b*ll*x about who's winch is better.
I was interested to see that the Brawn/T-max/Samson/GEW/Saggitarius stuff is all the Taiwanese designed (in the Warn Factory) built in China stuff. Brawns claim to re-build thier version in Australia is interesting because that's what the T-max importers do in the UK and what the GEW guys do in Spain...
So what about the 8274 or the Ramsey Platinum or even the Warn XP? What do you guys think about them?
Old Yella - Thanks for that. I have a T-Max 12000 on trial soon, for about a year so I will let you knwo what they are like. BTW My Bro-in-Law lives in your neck of the woods. Nice place.
I was interested to see that the Brawn/T-max/Samson/GEW/Saggitarius stuff is all the Taiwanese designed (in the Warn Factory) built in China stuff. Brawns claim to re-build thier version in Australia is interesting because that's what the T-max importers do in the UK and what the GEW guys do in Spain...
So what about the 8274 or the Ramsey Platinum or even the Warn XP? What do you guys think about them?
Old Yella - Thanks for that. I have a T-Max 12000 on trial soon, for about a year so I will let you knwo what they are like. BTW My Bro-in-Law lives in your neck of the woods. Nice place.
No-body knows everything, the fun is trying to...
Of course everyone will have a differing opinion as with everything......
t-max are at the stage where their pumping allot of funds into advertising to try increase market share and from all reports they seem good and are a few dollars cheaper than others.
Obviosuly not a comp winch but i beleive they are designing a high mount.... but still a good bit of gear. the auto parts locator guys speak highly of them also. SO in answer to your question they are growing in popularity but no where near the choice of the outback and only time will tell!!
bingham
t-max are at the stage where their pumping allot of funds into advertising to try increase market share and from all reports they seem good and are a few dollars cheaper than others.
Obviosuly not a comp winch but i beleive they are designing a high mount.... but still a good bit of gear. the auto parts locator guys speak highly of them also. SO in answer to your question they are growing in popularity but no where near the choice of the outback and only time will tell!!
bingham
2015 200 Series Gx TTD - ................ Fark 3L's -
Warn 8274 for Competition
Lao
I have not competed in the Outback Challenge, nor used / tested Tmax, but HAVE competed in the "Xtreme Winch Challenge" Series here in Australia for most of the last 3 years.
By far the most popular competition winch is the Warn 8274 and by observation only, many of these vehicles are competing in "The Outback Challenge".
Having said that many of us are now pushing these winches and even new 6HP motors to the limits with some running custom double winch motor systems and most running 24volt into them. (We have run 24v since 2002).
The latest is that many in Victoria and New Zealand who cop muddy, tougher conditions are sick of replacing Warn winch motors /solenoids and now are starting to install/test PTO / Hydraulic systems - again with all sorts of customisations to get around some of those systems limitations.
Peter
I have not competed in the Outback Challenge, nor used / tested Tmax, but HAVE competed in the "Xtreme Winch Challenge" Series here in Australia for most of the last 3 years.
By far the most popular competition winch is the Warn 8274 and by observation only, many of these vehicles are competing in "The Outback Challenge".
Having said that many of us are now pushing these winches and even new 6HP motors to the limits with some running custom double winch motor systems and most running 24volt into them. (We have run 24v since 2002).
The latest is that many in Victoria and New Zealand who cop muddy, tougher conditions are sick of replacing Warn winch motors /solenoids and now are starting to install/test PTO / Hydraulic systems - again with all sorts of customisations to get around some of those systems limitations.
Peter
_________________
Old Fart Ex Competitor with bits to spare
Old Fart Ex Competitor with bits to spare
V8diesel ran T-max winches at OBC last year
think it was 10000lbs front and 8000lbs rear
both low mounts
but he said they are tough but slow
think it was 10000lbs front and 8000lbs rear
both low mounts
but he said they are tough but slow
H( * )( * )NZ loves B( * )( * )BIES
if a fat lady falls in the forest do the trees laugh?
[quote="RUFF"]although i didnt mean to, i squealed like a girl :armsup:[/quote]
if a fat lady falls in the forest do the trees laugh?
[quote="RUFF"]although i didnt mean to, i squealed like a girl :armsup:[/quote]
The Brawn truck has run twice in the OBC with stock a winch, has never burnt out a motor and completed the tough 2003 mud stage with a single pull and a broken CV. Clearing the mud much faster than others.
In the 2004 Alpine challenge the Brawn truck, again with a stock Brawn winch, made a single pull through the infamous stage 6 bog hole which stopped the very next team by burning out two highmount warn 24V motors.
The Brawn has no where near the speed of a highmount Warn but with 13,000lbs of pull from the 9500 model, they can eat most obstacles...slowly...but do it all day long.
In the 2004 Alpine challenge the Brawn truck, again with a stock Brawn winch, made a single pull through the infamous stage 6 bog hole which stopped the very next team by burning out two highmount warn 24V motors.
The Brawn has no where near the speed of a highmount Warn but with 13,000lbs of pull from the 9500 model, they can eat most obstacles...slowly...but do it all day long.
www.4wdtv.com.au
SPOA FJ40, 400hp stroker, ARB locked x2, Silverstones, Superwinch, Narva lights, EFS springs, 1284 RTI...
SPOA FJ40, 400hp stroker, ARB locked x2, Silverstones, Superwinch, Narva lights, EFS springs, 1284 RTI...
Mmm interesting. Follows on from what I would have thought.
I once asked one of the MRFC competitors why he kept using an 8274 - he said that even though it broke more, you could always beg spares from other competitors!
I would have thought it would be better to have a winch that didn't break even if it was a bit slower. How much time do you lose fixing things?
In the UK the prefered choice for the rear is a Husky - slow but almost unbreakable. In Europe it is the Ramsey DC200 or Ramsey REP9000 both slow but almost unbreakable. The DC is what Husky copied but has better bearings/bushes etc.
An 8274 will run better with a Come Up 5.6Hp motor than a Warn 6Hp motor and just as fast for half the price with 10 times the reliability - but Fashion/Urban legend says use the 6Hp motor.
The 8274 is simply a mildly modyfied Bellview 5000 so the more power you chuck thru it and the more you do with it the more chance it will break.
The Great Winch Guru, Phil Gordon of PG Winches (in the UK) has already designed a prototype PTO Hydraulic (with off the shelf parts) that will run faster than an 8274 with a designed pull of 14,000lbs. This is fitted with a spool block flow control to slow the winch down on tricky sections.
I have always thought that Hydraulic is the way to go - coming from a forestry background. We ran a small mud run comp in the UK a couple of years ago with a route that requires about 5 hours continuous winching all through waste deep (and deeper) clay/mud the only winch to survive was a MileMarker Hydraulic.
The more I read about the T-Max and the Brawn the more I understand why Warn/Ramsey/Superwinch are having sales problem in Europe. Add to that the DV/Masterwinch/Comeup - which are excellent and cheap ans you seem to have an ideal range of winches for MOST conditions.
I also feel that purpose built stuff for the more Extreme events are a must.
I once asked one of the MRFC competitors why he kept using an 8274 - he said that even though it broke more, you could always beg spares from other competitors!
I would have thought it would be better to have a winch that didn't break even if it was a bit slower. How much time do you lose fixing things?
In the UK the prefered choice for the rear is a Husky - slow but almost unbreakable. In Europe it is the Ramsey DC200 or Ramsey REP9000 both slow but almost unbreakable. The DC is what Husky copied but has better bearings/bushes etc.
An 8274 will run better with a Come Up 5.6Hp motor than a Warn 6Hp motor and just as fast for half the price with 10 times the reliability - but Fashion/Urban legend says use the 6Hp motor.
The 8274 is simply a mildly modyfied Bellview 5000 so the more power you chuck thru it and the more you do with it the more chance it will break.
The Great Winch Guru, Phil Gordon of PG Winches (in the UK) has already designed a prototype PTO Hydraulic (with off the shelf parts) that will run faster than an 8274 with a designed pull of 14,000lbs. This is fitted with a spool block flow control to slow the winch down on tricky sections.
I have always thought that Hydraulic is the way to go - coming from a forestry background. We ran a small mud run comp in the UK a couple of years ago with a route that requires about 5 hours continuous winching all through waste deep (and deeper) clay/mud the only winch to survive was a MileMarker Hydraulic.
The more I read about the T-Max and the Brawn the more I understand why Warn/Ramsey/Superwinch are having sales problem in Europe. Add to that the DV/Masterwinch/Comeup - which are excellent and cheap ans you seem to have an ideal range of winches for MOST conditions.
I also feel that purpose built stuff for the more Extreme events are a must.
The ComeUp/Masterwinch/DV winches are sold in Australia as the Premier Winch. Only just found that out. Designed and built in Taiwan by the peopl that make winches for Warn. Bloody good winch, even has the brake in the gear box not the drum.
So whoever sells them near you I imagine
I don't know if they will fit the XD9 but I don't see why not
So whoever sells them near you I imagine
I don't know if they will fit the XD9 but I don't see why not
I was in the Outback Challenge in 2003 and personally know two of the guys from Qld who ran T-Max and I can testify that as a recovery tool they work but are painfully slow. Easily the slowest winches at the Outback Challenge that I saw. As the winches were brand new I couldn't say how long you would expect the motors or solenoid packs to last but from what I have seen if you need to run the cable out on a T-Max during competition, you can bank on a DNF.
Andy
Andy
Salad is not food, salad is what food eats.
"Hit pay dirt with KDRT"
"Hit pay dirt with KDRT"
Lao Tsu wrote:
The Great Winch Guru, Phil Gordon of PG Winches (in the UK) has already designed a prototype PTO Hydraulic (with off the shelf parts) that will run faster than an 8274 with a designed pull of 14,000lbs. This is fitted with a spool block flow control to slow the winch down on tricky sections.
I have always thought that Hydraulic is the way to go - coming from a forestry background. We ran a small mud run comp in the UK a couple of years ago with a route that requires about 5 hours continuous winching all through waste deep (and deeper) clay/mud the only winch to survive was a MileMarker Hydraulic.
A hi-mount hydraulic is available here now. Mal Storey of Maxidrive fame has a conversion to stick a hydraulic motor onto the gearbox of an 8274. Works really well by all accounts, especially with the PTO hydraulic pump he sells to fit the t/case on landrovers.
Regards
Max P
Stereo by Simex!
Maxtd5def wrote:Lao Tsu wrote:
A hi-mount hydraulic is available here now. Mal Storey of Maxidrive fame has a conversion to stick a hydraulic motor onto the gearbox of an 8274. Works really well by all accounts, especially with the PTO hydraulic pump he sells to fit the t/case on landrovers.
Regards
Max P
Back in 02 I was a navigator in the Xtrreme Winch Challenges in a Landy with this setup and although slow it was tough as nails. If we could speed this system up significantly (near the speed of the 6HP Warn setup) I'd certainly consider it again.
Peter.
_________________
Old Fart Ex Competitor with bits to spare
Old Fart Ex Competitor with bits to spare
The hydraulic competition winches used over here (NZ) generally use a superwinch hydraulic winch and run the hydraulic motor off the vehicles pto. Properly set up they run at the unloaded 8724 speed, when at full load. Apparently the warn hydraulic winch is nowhere as reliable. One competitor from last years Dennys challenge had sponsor ship from the local importers and at the end of the comp handed back the winch setup and sponsorship deal to install a superwinch.
Best Electric winch I've found for combination of speed and reliabiltiy are the 24v high mount toyota winchs that came out on some of the landcruisers. Not as fast as a warn highmount, but better clutch and freewheel system.
Stu
Best Electric winch I've found for combination of speed and reliabiltiy are the 24v high mount toyota winchs that came out on some of the landcruisers. Not as fast as a warn highmount, but better clutch and freewheel system.
Stu
The hydraulic competition winches used over here (NZ) generally use a superwinch hydraulic winch and run the hydraulic motor off the vehicles pto. Properly set up they run at the unloaded 8724 speed, when at full load. Apparently the warn hydraulic winch is nowhere as reliable. One competitor from last years Dennys challenge had sponsor ship from the local importers and at the end of the comp handed back the winch setup and sponsorship deal to install a superwinch.
Best Electric winch I've found for combination of speed and reliabiltiy are the 24v high mount toyota winchs that came out on some of the landcruisers. Not as fast as a warn highmount, but better clutch and freewheel system.
Stu
Best Electric winch I've found for combination of speed and reliabiltiy are the 24v high mount toyota winchs that came out on some of the landcruisers. Not as fast as a warn highmount, but better clutch and freewheel system.
Stu
Maxtd5def wrote:Lao Tsu wrote:
The Great Winch Guru, Phil Gordon of PG Winches (in the UK) has already designed a prototype PTO Hydraulic (with off the shelf parts) that will run faster than an 8274 with a designed pull of 14,000lbs. This is fitted with a spool block flow control to slow the winch down on tricky sections.
I have always thought that Hydraulic is the way to go - coming from a forestry background. We ran a small mud run comp in the UK a couple of years ago with a route that requires about 5 hours continuous winching all through waste deep (and deeper) clay/mud the only winch to survive was a MileMarker Hydraulic.
A hi-mount hydraulic is available here now. Mal Storey of Maxidrive fame has a conversion to stick a hydraulic motor onto the gearbox of an 8274. Works really well by all accounts, especially with the PTO hydraulic pump he sells to fit the t/case on landrovers.
Regards
Max P
Got anymore info on this or could you tell me where to look on the net. As this would interest me as I would like to get rid of some of the wieght upfront. And I already have a PTO winch on my GQ shorty, so dont want to add bigger batt's just toget line speed by using a Highmount.
Have thought of a Hydrulic winch before, but all the ones I have seen are still slow on line speed. But I do like the speed of my PTO at max (or near mas) load. As it is heaps faster than a near stalled elec.
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY....
A hi-mount hydraulic is available here now. Mal Storey of Maxidrive fame has a conversion to stick a hydraulic motor onto the gearbox of an 8274.
Another benefit of the hydraulic hi-mount.....due to the spur-gear design of the hi-mount, you can fully disengage the entire gear-train with an air ram setup (not just disengage the motor). Then there is no resistance to the winch rope when freespooling it out.
Superwinch hydraulic winches use a planetary gearbox where this is not possible.
A mate is working on this at the moment, using PTO drive (Nissan GQ) for the hydraulic pump.
Cheers
Mitch
The 8274 idea was bought off Bellview years ago. If you take a peek at the Bellview 5000/Warn 8000 you will see it has a bowden operated clutch that full disingages the spur gear. It also has a bowden cable operated brake that will hold a LWB S1 on a 45degree slope (according to the manual).
Theres a Swedish company that makes compressed air winches (for glider launching and such stuff) that will pull upto 7 tonnes
Theres a Swedish company that makes compressed air winches (for glider launching and such stuff) that will pull upto 7 tonnes
turps wrote:Got anymore info on this or could you tell me where to look on the net. As this would interest me as I would like to get rid of some of the wieght upfront. And I already have a PTO winch on my GQ shorty, so dont want to add bigger batt's just toget line speed by using a Highmount.
Have thought of a Hydrulic winch before, but all the ones I have seen are still slow on line speed. But I do like the speed of my PTO at max (or near mas) load. As it is heaps faster than a near stalled elec.
Maxidrive don't have a web site as such that I know of, but a few details are here
http://www.4wdworld.com.au/products/maxidrive/
Ring them, they're always very helpful.
Regards
Max P
Stereo by Simex!
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