big engineering question. if its not fact i don't want it

[bru21]

right the gu diffs are in so compared to the gq diffs they are:

wider

stronger

better turinng circle

lower ratio (3.9 - 4.635)

bigger brakes.

so i want to get 38" tyres engineered in qld. so i am assuming these mods are sufficient.

i have talked to an engineer and have be told that i can make an application to queensland transport for the whole list of modifications i have done and then they review it and check it is all correct. eg speedo correct, tyres don't hit during vertical and lateral movement as well as being covered etc then he can have it passed. i need proof and drawings of all aspects. he seems to think this will work as the 11 codes i need (motor, roll cage etc etc..) are both time consuming as well as not possible for the other things not in the code (not possible by an engineer in qld)

has anyone done all this. apparently this is the old and still current system and involves going over the pits etc.

please facts only.

cheers bru

[bogged]

so i want to get 38" tyres engineered in qld. so i am assuming these mods are sufficient.

in Qld, people are having issues with 33-35's what makes you think honestly you stand a chance? Not tryin to be smart, but .....?

[grimbo]

what tyre is speed rated at that size to meet Australian standards?

It seems the best guys to get QLD engineering answers are StrangeRover and Ruff.

Good luck with it

[bru21]

i have heard of 37's passed.

basically it is not that 35 etc are illegal, it seems as they are not permitted to be passed by a consulting engineer. eg there is no code for it - they don't have the authority. so what this appears to mean is that it is possible by a higher channel - queensland transport themselves.

i am going to book a meeting with the engineer to better explain it too me as i only talked on the phone. but it looks possible at this stage

[bogged]

what tyre is speed rated at that size to meet Australian standards?

that was my next question

[bru21]

they can speed limit my truck for all i care. claws are dot approved in the us so must have some sought of speed rating.

i hope this turns into an ol engineering project, we can all chip in info and get our trucks approved

a question for you rayno also mate how did you get the ones on the 80 series passed.

[bogged]

they can speed limit my truck for all i care. claws are dot approved in the us so must have some sought of speed rating..

sadly US and here are 2 different boats.

[YankeeDave]

i may be wrong, but isnt it your consulting engineer who has to do a lot of the calcs and or drawings?



also from my understanding, at least in vic, engineers can have various ratings from which they applied. Some can even sign off on buggies for road use. Just a matter of finding an engineer who can do what you want.

I may be wrong, and again QLD could be another world again in this respect.

[-Scott-]

i have heard of 37's passed.

But is that fact?

basically it is not that 35 etc are illegal, it seems as they are not permitted to be passed by a consulting engineer. eg there is no code for it - they don't have the authority. so what this appears to mean is that it is possible by a higher channel - queensland transport themselves.

I spoke to Queensland Transport and I was told there is no way around it for me (anything over the 15mm limit on a Pajero - I didn't mention the size I wanted to go to, they didn't ask.) There is no way to approve larger tyres because Queensland Transport don't want it done - for all the usual BS reasons.

I asked if I could have my 4by inspected as low volume/one off sort of deal - not interested, but mine's not really extensively modified. They did offer that if Mitsubishi would re-rate the Pajero for larger tyres then I would be fine - it's got to be "factory approved."

Maybe you can have yours assessed as a custom vehicle? There was the Commodore ute on a Patrol Chassis in 4wd Monthly - the article claimed it was registered with 38s?

Good luck,

Scott

[bru21]

my engineer can pass off buggies, infact he is doing the work on my old boys super 7 replica (built from scratch). there is no code for tyres hence he can't do it. cheers bru

[greenhilux]

FACT: you cannot get tyres engineered in QLD. Came straight from the horses mouth at QLD Transport. If you don't believe me give them a call, all the enginners certificates in the world won't get them passed.

[-Mick-]

FACT: you cannot get tyres engineered in QLD. Came straight from the horses mouth at QLD Transport. If you don't believe me give them a call, all the enginners certificates in the world won't get them passed.

that's what he already said

What he IS saying is that despite this QLD Transport themselves possibly can, ie people who actually work for QT Would seem funny to me that it was possible but hey

Good luck with this Bru21. Maybe you could pm me the name of your engineer if its not top secret, I have some suspension plans I need advice on

[derangedrover]

Bru,

The submission to QT will have to include proof that the spindles/bearings, brakes, and suspension etc can cope with the larger, heavier rubber for starters.
Analyzing the spindles strength to the point that will satsfy QT for this purpose wont be easy.
My info comes from a QT man Im using out here (who I approached about running 9.00r16 tyres on a Rover which some of them had from factory in UK), but it appears you can get a different answer from them everyday of the week. Until you have a submission in front of them covering every conceivable aspect of vehicle safety that could be affected by the change of tyre, consistent answers will be hard to come by, in my experience anyway.

HTH

Cheers
Daryl

[bru21]

the thing that scares me is if they reject it what happens. probably a yellow sticker

so i will tread carefully.

thanks so far fellas

[Bingham]

[quote="derangedrover"]Bru,

but it appears you can get a different answer from them everyday of the week.

Daryl has Thats is the nail on the head..... 10 people asked a similar question and 14 different answers..... thats the DOT MOTO
and thats why every 4wder with mods wastes time and so do dot staff as no one really knows the rules .

[Bingham]

the thing that scares me is if they reject it what happens. probably a yellow sticker

so i will tread carefully.

thanks so far fellas

when they se that thing coming they will yellow contact the whole thing

[De-lux]

i have heard of 37's passed.

But is that fact?

basically it is not that 35 etc are illegal, it seems as they are not permitted to be passed by a consulting engineer. eg there is no code for it - they don't have the authority. so what this appears to mean is that it is possible by a higher channel - queensland transport themselves.

I spoke to Queensland Transport and I was told there is no way around it for me (anything over the 15mm limit on a Pajero - I didn't mention the size I wanted to go to, they didn't ask.) There is no way to approve larger tyres because Queensland Transport don't want it done - for all the usual BS reasons.

I asked if I could have my 4by inspected as low volume/one off sort of deal - not interested, but mine's not really extensively modified. They did offer that if Mitsubishi would re-rate the Pajero for larger tyres then I would be fine - it's got to be "factory approved."

Maybe you can have yours assessed as a custom vehicle? There was the Commodore ute on a Patrol Chassis in 4wd Monthly - the article claimed it was registered with 38s?

Good luck,

Scott

how hard would this be to do?

[RUFF]

There are only a few things that can not be engineered in QLD. In any way shape or form. Unfortunatly such an increase in tyre diameter is one.

Yes i too have heard of guys going through Pineapple Street(DOT) with 35s and even 37s. And they passed. It still doesnt mean its legal. If there was an accident after this someone is going to be found accountable.

This is Fact.

I beleive you are also going to struggle with the increased wheel track.

Yes i know it makes the vehicle more stable in every situation but QLD DOT still wont want to know about it.

[80-RPM]

They did offer that if Mitsubishi would re-rate the Pajero for larger tyres then I would be fine - it's got to be "factory approved."


how hard would this be to do?

Very, A motor vehicle company produces so many un its per day that most of the time the are sold of the production line and when they are sold it is with that specification they are sold with
It is of no advantage to the manufacturers to make changes to make running 38's exceptable

everything would have to be reengineered and much larger ie your zuki might end up looking like a hummer!

the only way you could do it is if they speced a new model with the size tyres or options you want!

But seeing as there is only a small minority of people that want big wheels and tyres as to the large number of soccer mums that need AT vehicles to get through the shopping centre the manufacture is going to solely base the marketing toward the said target clientel

ie the standard 100 series with all the factory options that would never see dirt letalone of road

FWIW tyre construction would play a big part in the actual using on road as well

If the tyres have never been tested in aus for roll resistance or side g force if you will they will need to be tested for adr's which usually involves a few sets of tyres and a donor vehicle *that might be desroyed*

Its the same with all the low profile tyres on smaller cars
I have 215 40s on my road car and the amount of design that has gone into low profile tyres over the last few years is quite stagering
Not a major deal but when you compare these thres to 4x4 tyres there are lots of different constraints that are intertwined

ie over the last 7 years we have gone from 15 inch wheels being big to 20 inch even bigger on smaller cars the tyres having only tny amount of side wall have been designed to carry alot more load and be more durable than their predecesors where as 4x4 wheels although gaining better construction methods, paterns and materials they are still just a big ballon around a rim

roll resistance is a pretty major thing and would be the biggest down fall to getting your 38's engineered
watch a 60 series pasenger car tyre into a corner @ 80kmph and watch the tyre deflect under the rim
do @ 60 in a 4x4 and we all can feel it roll in as the front corner goes down and you lose positive traction on your wheel which is carring the brunt of the load through the corner

If you were to have 38's your side wall would need to be at least double what the plys are now for 33's/35's which would result in a tyre that would not really be suitable for 4x4ing

I come from the (4cyl lowered sports car catagory) we to have major dramas with getting things engineered etc but there are ways to do it properly

I would love to run A032r's on the 5 but at the cost per tyre and they only lasting around 6-7000 k's its definatly not feasable so they are a track only tyre i have *normal* dot approved tyres for road use

Why does having the biggest wheels need to be had on the road? so you dont have to change them when you get to a venue?

The line has to be drawn for what you want to use the vehicle for ie road or off road I just bought a 4x4 as a tow car so i can make that decision alittle easier in a few months time i will still keep my 5 registered but i will trailer it (plateless) to shows races etc as its not worth the hassle from the boys in blue everything so far cage seats etc are blue plated and engine mods will be to everything will be legal

Its all going to come unstuck as soon as you get pulled over by the first cop that thinks he's caught the big one
you will argue with him till you are blue in the face he will order a road worthy on it and you will be ass raped for the littlest thing imaginable
and even if it is engineered there is nothing saying they cant get a government engineer to asses it and say wether it will be outside the bounries for use on road

To which you will have wasted a fug load of time getting it engineered only to have it listed not for use on road and deregistered!

It has happened in the past and will in the future especially in the 4cyl scene and other car groups that are based on modifying a motor vehicle

you only have to look to NSW to see some of the ways they get around there 1 yearly road worthies you see the cars in the magazines with N20!
In qld its illegal to even have the lines plumbed in but you still see cars carrying the bottles and using them!

there are ways around everything but don't get burned by doing it the right way only to be ass raped later down the track

sorry for the long post feel for your situation though
i would like to put a bigger engine in my 5 but its original weight has desined it to only be alowed up to a 2l motor

so i know your situation ( i gave up and went FI route) on the standard motor

again sorry for the big speil!!!
good luck!

[bru21]

true mate. i am happy to have 2 sets of tyres but then i will get done for lift as even with stock suspension it looks massive with the cut arches, and the 5 link need to be adjusted if i drop it, then there is the pain in the arse.

i might have to get some 32's and 8 inch rims and change springs like it is going out of fasion

any tips for fitting springs without a forklift like at crusier park, a high lift would be too dangerous....

ruff, i might steal the winch to the diff idea front and rear. 8" to bump stops at the touch of 2 buttons!!!

[daddylonglegs]

[quote="derangedrover"]Bru,

The submission to QT will have to include proof that the spindles/bearings, brakes, and suspension etc can cope with the larger, heavier rubber for starters.
Analyzing the spindles strength to the point that will satsfy QT for this purpose wont be easy.
My info comes from a QT man Im using out here (who I approached about running 9.00r16 tyres on a Rover which some of them had from factory in UK), but it appears you can get a different answer from them everyday of the week. Until you have a submission in front of them covering every conceivable aspect of vehicle safety that could be affected by the change of tyre, consistent answers will be hard to come by, in my experience anyway.

HTH

Cheers
Daryl[/quote]



I had a RangeRover /LandRover hybrid engineered in Vic last year on Q78 TSL's, which are roughly equivalent to 9.00x 16's.The engineer was originally concerned that the hubs, wheel bearings ,spindles,swivel housings etc would not be rated for these until I showed him photos of the LandRover Defender armoured car on heavy bullet proof 9.00x16's that is used for riot control in Northern Ireland. These use the same hubs etc etc as standard civilian models of which I had samples to show the engineer so that he could compare them to the RangeRover items. He concluded rightly that they were identical in load rating and approved the increased tyre size. Ever since about 1958 there have always been LandRovers available to special order on 9.00x16's.that use the same components as civilian models. I cannot see how qld transport or any other transport regulation authority can be allowed to get away with denying a Rover owner the option.
Bill.

[bogged]

on Q78 TSL's, which are NON ROAD LEGAL.

so if you had an accident, you would be fucked. simple as that. Engineered or not, Swampers are not road legal - EOS.

[DaveS3]

on Q78 TSL's, which are NON ROAD LEGAL.

so if you had an accident, you would be *****. simple as that. Engineered or not, Swampers are not road legal - EOS.

It is not that the tyres are 'non road legal', it is that they are not speed rated.

They are legal on a vehicle with a tyre placard that does not require a speed rating i.e engineered Land Rover.

Dave

[Bartso]

the thing that scares me is if they reject it what happens. probably a yellow sticker

so i will tread carefully.

thanks so far fellas

when they se that thing coming they will yellow contact the whole thing

i reckon this is likely to happen unfortunately also depends who you get on the day someone in townsville got 35's passed by the DOT up there
i reckon do what everyone else does drive around with it all and hope you don't get caught i reckon buy 35's that are for the road they don't look as big as the aggresive 35's hopefully they will leave you alone

[bogged]

No - they are legal on a vehicle with out a tyre placard requireing a speed rating

how many cars does that encompass? anything pre 1900?

[Shadow]

I cannot see how qld transport or any other transport regulation authority can be allowed to get away with denying a Rover owner the option.
Bill.

you need tyo get something in writing from rover

and they will pass your vehicle

then if something goes wrong, rover will be the ones in court, not qld transport.

Its all about covering thier own arse, as much as it is about safety.

[-Scott-]

They did offer that if Mitsubishi would re-rate the Pajero for larger tyres then I would be fine - it's got to be "factory approved."

how hard would this be to do?

I don't know. I have thought about approaching the factory in Adelaide, but I'd be talking 33's, not 38's. 33's will fit the vehicle as it is now, although they wouldn't fit the vehicle as it left the showroom. Later model Pajeros will fit 33s with a simple suspension lift.

But at the end of the day I can't convince myself that there's anything significant for Mitsubishi to gain, so why would they bother? And that's before I considered the work they'd probably have to do, as described by 80-rpm.

So I'm dreaming of the day that Qld drags itself into the 20th Century (no mistake ) and joins the rest of the country.

Cheers,

Scott

[DaveS3]

No - they are legal on a vehicle with out a tyre placard requireing a speed rating

how many cars does that encompass? anything pre 1900?

Edit: Sorry, some 4WD vehicles pre 1982 or so.

[daddylonglegs]

[quote="Shadow"][quote

you need tyo get something in writing from rover

and they will pass your vehicle

then if something goes wrong, rover will be the ones in court, not qld transport.

Its all about covering thier own arse, as much as it is about safety.[/quote]


The tyre size change on its own ,I believe is not subject to engineering approval on any LandRover that was available with this size tyre as an optional extra. And furthermore the size ''9.00 x16'' can cover diameters from 33'' (Denman) up to 37'' (some Michelins).
Bill.

PS, DOT rating on TSL's is arguable. The owner of the afore mentioned Hybrid produced speed ratings figures from Interco to the engineer who was satisfied as to their suitability and plated the vehicle as legal on Q78's.

[Hoonz]

the thing that scares me is if they reject it what happens. probably a yellow sticker

so i will tread carefully.

thanks so far fellas

when they se that thing coming they will yellow contact the whole thing

i reckon this is likely to happen unfortunately also depends who you get on the day someone in townsville got 35's passed by the DOT up there
i reckon do what everyone else does drive around with it all and hope you don't get caught i reckon buy 35's that are for the road they don't look as big as the aggresive 35's hopefully they will leave you alone

that would have been me ... they picked the shit out of my suspension
body liftand my rear tail lights and said i had to put on a rear bumper bar cause my tray was just covering the chassis
and then turned around and said nice tyres they pass

i scored a copy of ADRs and got my tray passed with tail lights
had to change the suspension back to standard to get road worthy
changed the body lift to alloy blocks and got it engineered

the engineer here won't pass the suspension cause he reckons theres
to much bump steer 5" lift