lifted my MQ but it doesnt seem to articulate much?

[WTF]

Heyas all,

im very new to 4x4 and i just bought myself a MQ patrol with reg and in half decent (little rust) condition (for just over $2k).

Its basically stock but had a bullbar and tow bar and thats all.

Only other mods ive done is just bought a lift kit from a guy on these forums and new shocks (Carols Springs, EFS rearshocks and XGS fronts, with all new bushes), some new big spot lights, new 32in tyres and a half decent stereo.

My question is (being a newbie and all) that since ive got the lift kit, yes it makes the car sit higher (about 2-3 inches) and it increases my groundclearance and its not overly rough to drive on the road, however i just took it for a bit of a off road bashand tried to get the suspension to move at least a little, but it hardly goes up at all..

I mean i drove up onto a dirt mound and it pretty much just makes the car tilt, rather than push the wheel up into the guard. At least with the old suspension, it would allow the spring to come close to bottoming out on the rubbers if i forced one wheel up onto a mound. Now it just makes the suspension as if i am riding on bricks.

Is this normal? or is it just a bad set of springs for anything other than say towing?

Heres a pic of the kit:



Also, the yellow shocks pictured were not used in the kit as they were mismatching for this setup and were about 3" too short, so i bought some XGS ones which are plenty long enough.

Heres the car before:



(my car int he background as well, im a new 4x4 but been into sports cars for some time bit of a change heh)

and now heres the car at its current height:



Its just a bit of a shame, as at least before i put the kit on i got a fair amount of wheel travel...

heres what it was doing on the beach a week ago



admittedly the old suspension was shot, but at least it articulated and didnt tilt the whole body...

Is there a problem, or do you think that perhaps under more extreme conditions (i didnt really have anywhere suitable to check the articulation properly) it will at least have more noticeable excursion?

Also, ive noticed the car locks up the front right brake and veers off horribly to the drivers side when i hit the anchors, ive replaced the rear brake cyls and new pads in the front and ensured the sliders on the front calipers are functioning correctly (one was siezed before) but it still veers over the road, is there anything in particualr i should look for?

Lastly I have noticed the steering is horribly sloppy, like i can move a quarter of a turn on the wheel before it responds, is this a typical problem?

thanks very much for your help

Mark

[bogged]

the new springs and leaves could be HEAVY DUTY or too hard, which doesnt usually allow for good artic..

[Heathx4]

however i just took it for a bit of a off road bashand tried to get the suspension to move at least a little, but it hardly goes up at all..

Is this normal? or is it just a bad set of springs for anything other than say towing?

...

Also, ive noticed the car locks up the front right brake and veers off horribly to the drivers side when i hit the anchors,

Lastly I have noticed the steering is horribly sloppy, like i can move a quarter of a turn on the wheel before it responds, is this a typical problem?

Short version: normal.
Longer version:
1. Lifted springs are lifted because they have a greater arch. Greater arch means stiffer suspension and less flex, all else being equal. Also, new springs are stiff until they settle/fatigue a bit. If you're not carrying loads it is possible to remove individual leaves for more flex (but less lift). You can also grease inbetween leaves, loosen up the leaf clamps, and lengthen your shackles. Have a look how your shackle sits, and then imagine the suspension compresses/droops. The standard shackle is probably liimiting this movement.
2. Pull under braking isn't cool, but common with bigger rigs. Still, it should be addressed if it's locking a tyre and veering severly. Only things I can think that you haven't already checked is to check the discs in the front for surface imperfection or warping, and bleed the front lines in case their are bubbles in one.
3. Yep, she ain't sports car steering. A quarter of a turn though? No, that's definately not right. Check the rubber yoke on the steering shaft just before the steering box. Watch each of the steering arms between steering box and wheels while someone turns the wheel (keeping particular attention on the steering arm joints) for play. Finally, it may be steering box issue, and I'm no use to you there.

In any case, congrats on the purchase. Looks nice. But I must suggest that you appear to have been provided an MK. If you ordered an MQ you might want to talk to the supplier

[WTF]

thanks for the input so far

so if higher susp means stiffer and less travel, how is it even leaf sprung cars can get ridiculous articulation, looked thru some pics of peoples cars on here as well as other pics elsewhere and it seems you can get one tyre up against the flare and the other right down 12in from the flare. how can you come to a 'happy medium' that allows both? (again im new to this), while i want more ground clearance, i dont want the car to roll over due to the suspension not 'giving' and compensating for the raised ground.

so does this mean a car lifted 3inches will be very unlikely to hit its bump stops?

for the time being, Im hoping she will settle in a bit, will take it to a suspension place tomorrow and see if they have any ideas.

when you say its an MK not an MQ, umm, all i know is its a 1984 car, whats the essential differences? mines 1984, 2.8 petrol 4spd with no PS.

so far the car owes me $2200 car, $550 tyres, $550 suspension, $1000 miscellaneous bits and peices. So i guess somewhere around 4.5k all up. I guess i could have got something better for the money now that ive spent it all but hehe, oh well.

thanks again!

Mark

[Patroler]

The leaves will probably soften a bit over time, on my daily driver, which is the same as yours except diesel 5spd, i put enforcer suspension on it 2" over std, its running 31" tyres and still has the front swaybar so the front doesn't flex a great deal but the rear is not bad at all considering its all pretty stock, with the front swaybar it handles like a (oversized) go kart on the road also.
However on my mq ute i don't have swaybars, have pulled apart the leaf packs and removed some leaves all round, sprayed lithium grease on the individual leaves before assembly so its all pretty soft, i'm running slightly longer shackles (and castor wedges to correct angles) and the mounts where the leaves attach to the body are dropped a couple of inches, with a 2" body lift i can easily clear the 36" centipedes.

So i guess you could try ditching the front swaybar, removing a couple of leaves? do a search as theres plenty on that (you don't need to remove the whole leaf pack, just take the weight off of the wheel, undo the u bolts, lower the car or raise the axle and remove the centre bolt etc)
If you need more height to clear bigger rubber a body lift is easy and wont effect the centre of grav much, if you want the springs so soft for articulation that the chassis becomes too low, then you could go for extended shackles, custom mounts or finally spring over axle which would give you about 8" of lift.....

My shorty pulls to one side but its because one of the front disks is stuffed, its also got heaps of stearing slop also i just got used to it, the ute has power steering.

[murcod]

Mark, have you had a wheel alignment done since installing the lift? It may help?

[murcod]

BTW I installed some 45mm lift Dobinson rear leaf springs in my Feroza before Easter. The ride is way hard (need longer extension shocks in the rear which is probably half the problem), but after going camping at Easter with a full load and trailer on the back they have settled down a bit lower and ride is a bit better.

I don't ever anticipate the rear end will flex anywhere near as good as standard; I imagine you'd have next to no load carrying ability with lifted springs that flex well (?)

[V8Patrol]

By the "look" in the pics you have "heavy duty" springpaks. Obviously they wont flex much.....
But .....

You can try removing a few of the leaves thus softening the paks and giving you better flex. This will lower the height a tad tho but not to the point youll be effected much.

I counted 9 leaves in one of the paks in the pic...this is WAY TO MANY !..... this is what some retailers call a "heavy duty tow pak", removing leaves wont be critical to this pak.

I run the same paks as you have on my SOA'd rig .... only I now have 5 leaves in the rear and 4 in the front paks ( from memory the new paks came with 9 in the rear and 7 leaves in the front )


As for the braking drama
remove the caliper on the OPPOSITE side that the rig pulls to.....
put that caliper in your left hand .....
and throw it over ya right shoulder !
Then fit another caliper

The piston in the caliper will be worn or will have worn the cylinder to be out of round, this then causes the piston to bind up so it doesnt work properly...all the braking is then transfered to the side that the rig pulls to.


Steering......
Check the rag joint ( its that round rubber disk you'll see just before the steering box ) if its torn, perished, or loose then replace it ASAP.
If the rag joint is in servicable nick then adjust the steering box lag. The adjustment point is visable from the top of the box and is done by loosening the lock nut and adjusting the inner stud with a screwdriver, then re lock the lock nut back up.

Kingy

[WTF]

thanks heaps again for the replies thus far!

im thinking i should remove some leafs by the general consensus. im afraid if i dont, then ill tip the car over when i go to fraser this weekend!(that is if i can get the braking/steering sorted).

id prefer not to lose too much height, but its always going to be a trade off i guess.

how many leaves can i safely remove before it will start to basically drop to stock height again? i want to at least maintain some lift, but promote articulation..

your correct in saying i have 9 and 7 leaves (R/F). I was thinking that seemed pretty insane, apparently they were from a guy on these forums who does winch comps..

im hoping a shop doesnt charge too much to remove a few leaves, did you mean it can be done without removing them from the car?

or should i take the car on a bit of rough-ish 4x4 on the weekend and then reassess what needs to be done? or will 7 and 9 leaves always be too heavy for anything besides towing?

thanks also for the advise re the brakes, i really need the car for the coming weekend, so i dont like the idea of having to totally replace the caliper as ive got buckleys chance of finding another one tomorow.

Oh lastly, last night i put the front hubs in LOCK mode and went for a short 4x4.. i noticed that when the front hubs are locked, i get a sound kind of like a chain dragging along the ground (a clinking metallic sound). This is fairly quiet and only happens when hubs are locked, car doesnt need to be in 4L/4H or anything. Any ideas?

thanks once again, your a great help

[MKPatrolGuy]

The rattling noise is probably wear in the front driveshaft splines, mine does the same thing. A temporary fix is to pump the shaft full of grease.

[Tiny]

I assume that you fitted the lift your self, and if you can manage this you will easaly be able to remove a couple of leafes off your spring pack.

you will not notice a large change in ride height, but no dought you will increase you articulation a lot.

good luck with it

[Heathx4]

im thinking i should remove some leafs by the general consensus. im afraid if i dont, then ill tip the car over when i go to fraser this weekend!

It wont tip because the suspension is too stiff! In fact, on a side angle or when cornering, stiff suspension will reduce body roll. More supple suspension can make the car more stable in some situations, but if you roll at Fraser it's very unlikely to caused by stiff suspension.

how many leaves can i safely remove before it will start to basically drop to stock height again?

The issue is not with the height you loose, but the strength of the resulting pack. Take too many out, and your whole pack will twist and warp, screwing the lot. Start by taking two out and see how it is - the intelligence I've heard is to remove two of the leafs near the centre (don't pull the short ones off the bottom as I was tempted to do, or you'll loose the height quickly, and the strength where it's needed).

your correct in saying i have 9 and 7 leaves (R/F). I was thinking that seemed pretty insane, apparently they were from a guy on these forums who does winch comps..

I've attached a pic of the difference between my standard springs (shagged) and the 2" lifted Enforcer springs I bought. These are the rears that went from 4 leafs to 7. I think these are too stiff and plan to remove one, at least from the front.

im hoping a shop doesnt charge too much to remove a few leaves, did you mean it can be done without removing them from the car?

Yeah, AFAIK just take the load of the axle off the spring pack, undo the centre bolt, undo the spring clamps if necessary, and slide a leaf or two out.

or should i take the car on a bit of rough-ish 4x4 on the weekend and then reassess what needs to be done?

Definately. Give it a decent run before deciding anything. It may settle, it will definately change at least fractionally, and you'll have a better idea of how they work offroad.

Oh lastly, last night i put the front hubs in LOCK mode and went for a short 4x4.. i noticed that when the front hubs are locked, i get a sound kind of like a chain dragging along the ground (a clinking metallic sound). This is fairly quiet and only happens when hubs are locked, car doesnt need to be in 4L/4H or anything. Any ideas?

Remove the front shaft and try again. If the noise goes, you know what it is Otherwise, definately check the oil in the front diff.

thanks once again, your a great help

It's "you're" and you're welcome!

[MQ080]

Can someone please send this to the nissan board

[-Scott-]

WTF

It looks like you're in Queensland, so we need to run a filter over some of the previous posts.

Installing longer shackles is not something Qld Transport approves - but nobody seems to get picked up for it, and unless you go extreme somebody needs to be looking for it to notice.

Body lifts are limited to 2"/50mm - if you really want to do one.

In other states, it's possible to fit larger tyres and obtain formal "approval." Not in Queensland.

Spring-overs, where you mount the springs on top of the axles rather than underneath, are another Qld Transport no-no. But I don't know if you can get them engineered, should you decide you really need one.

Now, my 2c.

Your springs are way too stiff for a SWB fourby. I doubt you'll get articulation without removing a few leaves, like V8Patrol mentioned. Removing leaves isn't a particularly difficult job, so give it a go - maybe get a few more opinions on which leaves to remove. And while you're at it, add some lubricant between leaves, and to all the bushes at each end. Again, ask around the Nissan section for advice on what to lubricate with.

Oh, welcome to OL, and enjoy your 4by!

Scott

[Screwy]

Sent a PM to kingy to moderate this over to the Nissan section

[GOT MUD]

where abouts are you in qld

[WTF]

woops, sorry if i posted this in the wrong section :(

but again thanks for everyones help on the matter.

ive left the car at a workshop in brisbane to have a look at the issues i mentioned (brakes and steering and the noise up the front) as i want to go fraser on the weekend. (weather dependant).

hopefully ill get it back tomorrow.

As for the removal of leaves, i will leave that until after ive done a bit of 4x4ing and see how it performs as it is. if its too hard then, ill pull some leaves out and give it a go again.

Sadly i didnt have air tools and the car was kind of in need of some tlc, so the nuts and bolts were mostly all seized, so it took several hours to get everything apart even at a workshop, so no, i didnt do all the work to date myself, i did that at a workshop, but i helped along the way.

as for where i am, im living near carindale at the moment, anyone else who feels like showing me some 4x4 tracks in brisbane id like to tag along on future trips .

You've all been a great help and your assistance is much appreciated (note the use of apostrophe's in the correct place this time well at least for that line hehe)

my msn for any locals who might want to show me some tracks is melbccr@iprimus.com.au - feel free to add me!

[GOT MUD]

oh okay u r on southside i was going to say that we meet up somewhere so you can have a look at my set up i had a similar prob to yours and ive pretty much sorted it i think its always good to take the time to look at other set-ups in the flesh (or metal) you can get some ideas just an idea

[robbie]

moved this over to the nissan section.

[Tatra8x8]

The problem with articulation is caused by quite a few things. A spring packs have too many leaves. Take out no. 3 and 5 from the bottom. Then remove your swaybar. If you want to roll over when off road a good way to do it is to keep your swaybars on. Thirdly, the spring packs are located too far outboard. Unlike a Toyota landcruiser where the springs are very close in which allows for supreme articulation, the patrol ones are out nearer the wheels and, for the same stiffness spring gives less articulation but less body roll on road. MKs are a poor choice of vehicle if you want good articulation without having ultra soft springs.

[Tatra8x8]

Another thing is that all leaf springs are not equal. Enforcer springs are sh"t, very few companies know how to make good leaf springs now that so few are sold. Ultimate is the best bar none, OME is a second best. Dobbinsons are the absolute worst.

[Monty]

Another thing is that all leaf springs are not equal. Enforcer springs are sh"t, very few companies know how to make good leaf springs now that so few are sold. Ultimate is the best bar none, OME is a second best. Dobbinsons are the absolute worst.

Everyone has a different opionion on brands of springs, if you want them to flex really well from a lifted pack the best i have seen is from All Set springs i think they are in QLD

Enforcers can be good i was happy with my lift on my 60 they flexed awesome, however my mates patrol had them and the rear worked really well but sagged big time and the the fronts were not set properly from carrols and were about 4 inch lifted springs so awesome approach but no flex at all

best thing about enforcer springs is that they have 2 year 40000km warrenty and they honour it too

[MQ080]

Another thing is that all leaf springs are not equal. Enforcer springs are sh"t, very few companies know how to make good leaf springs now that so few are sold. Ultimate is the best bar none, OME is a second best. Dobbinsons are the absolute worst.

Everyone has a different opionion on brands of springs, if you want them to flex really well from a lifted pack the best i have seen is from All Set springs i think they are in QLD

Enforcers can be good i was happy with my lift on my 60 they flexed awesome, however my mates patrol had them and the rear worked really well but sagged big time and the the fronts were not set properly from carrols and were about 4 inch lifted springs so awesome approach but no flex at all

best thing about enforcer springs is that they have 2 year 40000km warrenty and they honour it too

If I had my time over i'd still spend the money on enforcer however spend more time playing with the packs in the front. In the end I went with 2 load leaves removed from each set and the thing still was too stiff!

[WTF]

after a bit of a flogging round the beaches and 4x4 tracks, the suspension has settled and now looks to articulate much better.

heres an example from my trip to bribie island today.

[Suspension Stuff]

The best brand springs are the springs setup for the application you want to use them for. The best brand spring in the world is no good for you if it is setup for carrying heavy loads. When you buy springs you need to be sure that the supplier knows what you are going to use the vehicle for. If a supplier is unsure what you want, he or she will always supply you with the heavier duty, that way there is going to be no complaints about sagging and no warranty issues. However I am not saying you didn't do this already. Some suppliers only have 1 or 2 brands they deal with and don't have an option that suits your needs/wants.

I know you can setup an MQ with good flex because my brother inlaw use to have an MQ with more flex than my 2 inch lift GQ

Anyway it looks like you are happier now with how it flexes. I am sure that the longer you have it the better it will become.

Try talking to your supplier he might be more helpful than you think.

Pedal to the floor.
Shane
4WD STUFF