Outer Limits 4x4 Board

heres the deal

have got a hilux with a V6
will be spinning 35
light tray

i don't plan to be driving excessively on road. what would you do? i have an air locker and a lockright locker and not sure which one to put where. i'm tempted to run the air locker in the front and lockright in the rear so it'll turn when i want it to off road but on road, it's light in the back end and i'm wondering if the lockright will be a pig on the road.

what are your thoughts?

cheers joel

Have you thought about loading up the rear with weight? I'd still go air locker in the front. It's far more important to be able to steer.

it would be better to lock the front as mq080wrote due to the steering factor

a lockright in the rear still has a considerable negative effect on your offroad steering, remember it is LOCKED until one wheel is forced to turn FASTER than the carrier, so for all intents and purposes, off road it is LOCKED all the time, and will cause the front wheels to push (understeer) whether they are driven or not. Your best offroad steering option is lockright front, where you can fiddle steer by unlocking hubs if you need to, airlocker rear. The bigger your tyres, the bigger the 'lurch' when a lockright disengages on-road - and with 31's it bearable, but when 35's it starts to get uncontrollable - a welded rear is more controllable and obviously more predictable. Knowing that you will drive it HARD on-road, having a lockright in the rear is not a safe or sensible option.

adding weight to increase traction is as sensible as carring a heavy bag to make you walk better - it just makes the engine and driveline work harder. set up the suspension correctly for the weight distribution of the vehicle as it stands.

dumbdunce wrote: The bigger your tyres, the bigger the 'lurch' when a lockright disengages on-road - and with 31's it bearable, but when 35's it starts to get uncontrollable - a welded rear is more controllable and obviously more predictable. ..

I found the exact opposite to be true in my Zuk ... with the auto locker in back I barely noticed it with 32 BF's with 33 swampers it was basically transparent except in the carpark where it would pop in and out, when I dropped back to 31's it was a nightmare .. lurched all over the place..


welded rear was pretty easy to live with though ..

Have the loc-rite in the rear and the air locker in the front. I rekon its the ducks nuts.
The rear locker gets most places without the front. The front is awesome when locked, even better when you want to steer. Just a pfft and steering is a breeze.

Alec

air locker in the front, lockright in rear. BUT i dont understand all the talk about lockrights in the front being hard to steer. I have had 3 cars, 1 with air lockers and 2 with lock rights and the only time i have had trouble turning is with the Air lockers in. Now most of you would say"turn it off to turn" but I never have had trouble with the Lockright in turning and i cant turn that off. I have driven em both in Toolangi rocks and mud and Warby slippery red mud, and i would never buy an air locker over a lockright.
1) the lockright costs around 600 compared to the airlocker 1300ish?
2)lockright,no playing round, just driving. AIR locker switch on, start up hill,switch off, take turn, switch on continue up. STUFF THAT!

thats all cheers

dumbdunce wrote:where you can fiddle steer by unlocking hubs if you need to

This idea is oftern mentioned but that's alot of effort.

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:where you can fiddle steer by unlocking hubs if you need to

This idea is oftern mentioned but that's alot of effort.

of course it is - but the places where you need to turn that tight, you probably already have a spotter out of the car, and if you've got the air locker in the front and the lockright in the rear, you're gettiing out of the car at the same point anyway to figure out how the hell you're going to turn around. It's not the "easiest" option but it is the option that provides the most predictable performance on and off road, and the tightest turning radius on and off road. Of course this whole discussion could be avoided if stumpy wasn't such a cheap biAtch and just bought a second airlocker.

I have a lockright in the front and have found no steering loss when in 4wd except for sloppy deep mud where steering loss is common even without a locker. Under very steep climbing situations where one has to turn they are great as they unlock as required and immediately relock.
Can't praise mine enough but then it's only done 120 thousand.

Hope this helps.

dumbdunce wrote:

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:where you can fiddle steer by unlocking hubs if you need to

This idea is oftern mentioned but that's alot of effort.

Of course this whole discussion could be avoided if stumpy wasn't such a cheap biAtch and just bought a second airlocker.

I will only agree on this point!

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:where you can fiddle steer by unlocking hubs if you need to

This idea is oftern mentioned but that's alot of effort.

Of course this whole discussion could be avoided if stumpy wasn't such a cheap biAtch and just bought a second airlocker.

I will only agree on this point!

I don't own a locker at all at the moment but it seems whenever I look in this section there is questions on problems people are having with air lockers. I know everyone is going to say thats because there is so many more out there but there is still a lot of lokka's and lockrights around but don't seem to see many people having problems with them. For instance there is two different threads as i type this on air locker problems. Are they really that great a locker. I'm not convinced yet which way to go yet. The best thing I can see with the airlocker is the ability to turn on and off when required. Reliability is a big thing however and there is a lot to go wrong with the air locker. With that and the overpricing I'm just not sure they are worth the bucks.

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:where you can fiddle steer by unlocking hubs if you need to

This idea is oftern mentioned but that's alot of effort.

Of course this whole discussion could be avoided if stumpy wasn't such a cheap biAtch and just bought a second airlocker.

I will only agree on this point!

i will agree too
at the price i paid, i really couldn't go past it. any way, its not like i'm ever actually drive offroad cos i'll be fixing it all the time

BigMav wrote:

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:where you can fiddle steer by unlocking hubs if you need to

This idea is oftern mentioned but that's alot of effort.

Of course this whole discussion could be avoided if stumpy wasn't such a cheap biAtch and just bought a second airlocker.

I will only agree on this point!

I don't own a locker at all at the moment but it seems whenever I look in this section there is questions on problems people are having with air lockers. I know everyone is going to say thats because there is so many more out there but there is still a lot of lokka's and lockrights around but don't seem to see many people having problems with them. For instance there is two different threads as i type this on air locker problems. Are they really that great a locker. I'm not convinced yet which way to go yet. The best thing I can see with the airlocker is the ability to turn on and off when required. Reliability is a big thing however and there is a lot to go wrong with the air locker. With that and the overpricing I'm just not sure they are worth the bucks.

the probs tend to be intalation issues, and other side issues due to set up as opposed to functional issues or breakeges.

In saying that I am prolly going the TJM lockers and see how they go. I would expect some teething issues in the set up but we will see how they go

i like the sound of the pro lockers look forward to seeing how they go. My main reason for holding off on lockers at the moment

Tiny wrote:

BigMav wrote:

MQ080 wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:

MQ080 wrote: This idea is oftern mentioned but that's alot of effort.

Of course this whole discussion could be avoided if stumpy wasn't such a cheap biAtch and just bought a second airlocker.

I will only agree on this point!

I don't own a locker at all at the moment but it seems whenever I look in this section there is questions on problems people are having with air lockers. I know everyone is going to say thats because there is so many more out there but there is still a lot of lokka's and lockrights around but don't seem to see many people having problems with them. For instance there is two different threads as i type this on air locker problems. Are they really that great a locker. I'm not convinced yet which way to go yet. The best thing I can see with the airlocker is the ability to turn on and off when required. Reliability is a big thing however and there is a lot to go wrong with the air locker. With that and the overpricing I'm just not sure they are worth the bucks.

the probs tend to be intalation issues, and other side issues due to set up as opposed to functional issues or breakeges.

In saying that I am prolly going the TJM lockers and see how they go. I would expect some teething issues in the set up but we will see how they go

I agree, most problems I've heard about are due to poor instalation.. not the actual locker. Ask around, it quickly becomes clear where you should and shouldn't get them installed. I've had mine in for over a year and haven't had a thing go wrong. (Installed at Gympie ARB) If, as you say you don't plan to be driving excessively on road I'd put the air locker in the front, and weld your rear, that way you don't have to worry about the lockright being a pig on the road, and by the sounds of it, the rear is light enough so it won't cause excessive tyre wear. Then re-coup some cash and sell the lockright! Problem solved

How does having front Auto Hubs affect the ability of fitting lockers?
I can get front & rear lockright (installed) for same price as 1 Air Locker.

Jason

n-dorphin,
Does not change a thing.
If you have an air locker you must engage the front hubs before locking the diff.
With lockright locker you just do everything as normal. IE it's a fully auto set up engaged at all times except when required to diferentiate when turning.

Mine is a lockright and it's great. as said above.

Was enqiuring because my front hubs auto lock.
Does this have any effect if I put a lockright in?
Will it cause hubs lock by themselve when in 2wd?

Jason

n_dorphin
In short no to both questions

sorry to restart an old thread but i thought i would use the search option instead of starting a new one.

I am considering putting Detroits instead of ARB's front and rear in a GQ as i think they will be better to use no stuffing around with locker buttons and air hoses and compressors (to much stuff to go wrong)

Is there any difference between the detroits and the Lockright? what would be the better way to go with an auto locker?

Kruza,
If you have a Nissan then you would only need the locker in the front diff as the standard limited slip in the Nissan is damn good.
But put one in if you are doing comp's .

I dont have the truck as yet was just wondering what to do when i first get it.

Ill put one in the front first and get the back tightend up and see how it goes, if im not happy then ill put one in the back

Kruza wrote:sorry to restart an old thread but i thought i would use the search option instead of starting a new one.

I am considering putting Detroits instead of ARB's front and rear in a GQ as i think they will be better to use no stuffing around with locker buttons and air hoses and compressors (to much stuff to go wrong)

Is there any difference between the detroits and the Lockright? what would be the better way to go with an auto locker?

detroits are much stronger than lockrights, they replace the entire hemisphere, lockrights only replace the gears inside. they are also smoother and quieter than the lockright as the ramping and locking/ratcheting actions are separated - on the lockright the same set of teeth is used to accomplish both. The on-road manners of the detroit however still leaves a lot to be desired so you may not be 100% happy with how it drives on-road. Detroits are very expensive compared to lockrights - they are aimilarly priced to airlockers. The downsides of the airlocker you have expressed are there - they are more complex and there is more to go wrong, but they air locker is stronger again, you have the advantage of controlling when it is on or off, and you get the bonus of an air compressor for air ups ets thrown in. There are downsides to all auto lockers including poor steering response in most offroad situations and poor side-slope performance (causing side-sliding) in low traction situations. If you can, try and get a drive of a vehicle with auto lockers, and a vehicle with manual lockers, on and off road, before making your decision.

definately drive an auto locked vehicle first

i have a detroit in the rear of my 40 (real cheap off ebay) i was scared of them from the bum wrap they get... but... on my almost shagged AT's it chirps if i put the boot in for 90 degree corners.

on my bro's claws, i can't feel it at all, except offroad where there is a distinct "push" feeling. tires are the same size, but with the claws, only time i know it's there is during U turns where i get a faint clicking noise.

this is on a 40 without power steering. so consider that tires can make the biggest difference

thanks guys, ill try and see if i can get a go i someones truck from the local 4x4 club here in Wodonga. Then decide from there which way i will go.

Just a quick thought. I have a Disco. 4x4 Fulltime. Q is fitting a locker rear only (Not air. Have to be a lockrite $$$ issue) better. Would fitting front and rear cause drama's on road with steering? Anyone with an 80 Series or rover gone down this path?

an auto locker in the front of a constant 4WD is very very scary indeed. don't do it.

I am thinking to purchase a LOCKRIGHT for the front myself, for bothe budget and simplicity reasons, but found these thoughts interestingly conflicting.
http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/A/Di ... aders.html
http://secure.turbonet.com.au/discuss/m ... 8/314.html

Nice link! In snow country, where you're in and out of low traction situations all day everyday, I can see the attraction of an autolocker - you don't have to think about it.

I think the weight of the vehicle needs to be considered. A heavy vehicle exerts more force on tyres, so they will grip terrain better than a light vehicle. So in a heavy vehicle an autolocker will be more inclined to unlock than cause a wheel to spin. The lighter the vehicle, the more unpredictable it may become.

I've got an ARB in the front (and don't get to use it enough ) but still have the factory LSD in the rear - because I've yet to find the need for anything better. When I need something better I'll seriously consider an autolocker, because I find the "always on" bit attractive.

Scott